Tachos and logging stuff

NEW AND WANNABE DRIVERS (INTERACTIVE)
1

Basically, I started without a clue as to what I was doing. Didn’t know/wasn’t told I have to download my card at start/end of each day (am agency), so haven’t been doing that. To top it off, was running on a paper tacho the other day, didn’t take a photo of it when I handed it back, and lost the piece of paper where I scribbled down some half-completed times of when I was driving.

I’m in the middle of my weekly rest right now, if I get work on Friday, will I be able to print out my driving on the card from the previous week (last Friday included)? And, how would I do that? I assume I’ll need to somehow declare on my card what I’ve done on the paper tacho - vaguely remember something about manual entry? How would I do that as well - and would a best guess be acceptable? I didn’t go over 10 hours (I think, had a prang so may have gone over a little - see other thread), so should I just put 10 hours on for that as a best guess?

Yes, I’m a disorganized git, only realised I have to do all of this yesterday so hoping I can just hit a magic button which tells me everything I’ve done the last week and catch up with it all.

EDIT:

Just remembered that I was using my phone to navigate, so Google was logging my every move anyway. Turns out because I was on multidrop, I was WAY too conservative with my breaks. I was just going by 4.5h real time because I didn’t have a button to press to tell me how many hours I’d been driving. Did 1 hour 48 before my rest (But where I was heading after that drop, there would have been nowhere to park for my 6 hour anyway, so I HAD to take at least 15 minutes, and I wasn’t pushed for time so didn’t hurt me taking 45), then 2 hours 15 - then another break (this is when I parked at an estate and put myself onto rest while I waited for a mechanic), then a drive back to depot of a bit over an hour. So really, I don’t need to worry at all about my hours, I just have to worry about being in the wrong mode all bloody day long.

I assume because that’s how I was told to use the tacho and I was being generous with breaks anyway, that I won’t be seen to be trying to intentionally break rules and should be ok?

2

iomex:
Basically, I started without a clue as to what I was doing. Didn’t know/wasn’t told I have to download my card at start/end of each day (am agency), so haven’t been doing that. To top it off, was running on a paper tacho the other day, didn’t take a photo of it when I handed it back, and lost the piece of paper where I scribbled down some half-completed times of when I was driving.

To make your life simple, (i.e. cover yourself) You should have done a manual entry to cover the paper tacho shift when you next used a digi Tacho. But even if you haven’t, I really wouldn’t loose any sleep over it, but again if it’s worrying you, ask the office to take a copy of it and keep it on you for 28 days… As for downloading your digicard everyday, that’s just company policy…

iomex:
I’m in the middle of my weekly rest right now, if I get work on Friday, will I be able to print out my driving on the card from the previous week (last Friday included)? And, how would I do that? I assume I’ll need to somehow declare on my card what I’ve done on the paper tacho - vaguely remember something about manual entry? How would I do that as well - and would a best guess be acceptable? I didn’t go over 10 hours (I think, had a prang so may have gone over a little - see other thread), so should I just put 10 hours on for that as a best guess?

It’s too late to do a manual entry for that paper tacho shift now, as once something is set into the tacho, you can’t go and edit it later.

iomex:
Yes, I’m a disorganized git, only realised I have to do all of this yesterday so hoping I can just hit a magic button which tells me everything I’ve done the last week and catch up with it all.

Yes you can do a printout for previous days and weeks, which you’ll find quick enough if you have a play with the tacho.

iomex:
EDIT:

Just remembered that I was using my phone to navigate, so Google was logging my every move anyway. Turns out because I was on multidrop, I was WAY too conservative with my breaks. I was just going by 4.5h real time because I didn’t have a button to press to tell me how many hours I’d been driving. Did 1 hour 48 before my rest (But where I was heading after that drop, there would have been nowhere to park for my 6 hour anyway, so I HAD to take at least 15 minutes, and I wasn’t pushed for time so didn’t hurt me taking 45), then 2 hours 15 - then another break (this is when I parked at an estate and put myself onto rest while I waited for a mechanic), then a drive back to depot of a bit over an hour. So really, I don’t need to worry at all about my hours, I just have to worry about being in the wrong mode all bloody day long.

I assume because that’s how I was told to use the tacho and I was being generous with breaks anyway, that I won’t be seen to be trying to intentionally break rules and should be ok?

You’re a bloody nightmare! :laughing:
But you’ll get the hang of it once you’ve had a bit of practice…
If you’re records are a bit of a mess at the moment, do a printout for that/those days and write it all down on the back.
Next time though, try and get yourself a bit more organised, and stay away from tree stumps! :grimacing:

3

Haha, cheers - I’m just worrisome when it comes to paperwork (after having made a mess of every tax return for the last 8 years). I haven’t driven since the paper tacho, and it was just the one shift, should have made that clear. So in theory if I just print off the last 7 days when I work next (assuming it’ll be a digi tacho), I should be alright?

Have bought a few bits off Amazon to keep me organized - a diary, a truckers map, and a ‘How to do your bloody paperwork properly’ dummies guide book.

4

I’ve been keeping a diary, A5 page to a day that stays in my bag. I record start time, times and duration of breaks, finish time and where ive been during the day. End of the day I get a printout off the machine and write down the driving/other work/poa breakdown off the bottom of the print out too. Print out then goes on a bulldog clip in my bag.

If nothing else it helps with any disputes getting paid and shows you are at least trying to be organised and keep a proper record :slight_smile: It also reminds me how much other work I need to put on the next day in a manual entry for signing off/debrief after I’ve ejected my card :slight_smile:

5

In future if you use an analogue tachograph let the company have a copy of the chart if they want one but you keep the original chart, you need to carry the chart with you for 28 days and hand it in to the transport company no later than 42 days from when it was used.
The chart you need to carry is the original not a copy or photo of the chart.

As the last shift you did was on an analogue tachograph, the next time you use a digital tachograph do a manual entry to record the time from the end of the last shift to the start of the current shift with the ? symbol.
Do not attempt to manually enter the times for the shift you did on an analogue tachograph, it’s not necessary and can’t be done anyway because you cannot manually enter driving times, technically you’re committing an offence by not carrying the chart with you so there’s no point in compounding the offence by trying to do the impossible on a digital tachograph, record all the time you was on an analogue tachograph with the ? symbol, that’s what it’s for :wink:

iomex:
Just remembered that I was using my phone to navigate, so Google was logging my every move anyway. Turns out because I was on multidrop, I was WAY too conservative with my breaks. I was just going by 4.5h real time because I didn’t have a button to press to tell me how many hours I’d been driving. Did 1 hour 48 before my rest (But where I was heading after that drop, there would have been nowhere to park for my 6 hour anyway, so I HAD to take at least 15 minutes, and I wasn’t pushed for time so didn’t hurt me taking 45), then 2 hours 15 - then another break (this is when I parked at an estate and put myself onto rest while I waited for a mechanic), then a drive back to depot of a bit over an hour. So really, I don’t need to worry at all about my hours, I just have to worry about being in the wrong mode all bloody day long.

Too many breaks or breaks that are much longer than necessary won’t get you into trouble legally but they may stop you getting more work from the agency, it only takes one company to tell the agency not to send you again and your card may get marked as someone only to use as a last resort :wink:

I see in your other thread you said “I was on a paper tacho, had it on the wrong mode (POA instead of driving)” which I assume is what you’re referring to in this thread, unless it was a very old tachograph it would automatically record driving every time the vehicle moves, so unless it was a really old tachograph it will have recorded your driving time.

I don’t mean any offence mate but you really need to study the rules and regulations a bit, you don’t need to learn everything but you do need to know at-least the basic stuff about driving times and breaks :wink:

European Union (EU) rules on drivers’ hours and working time Simplified guidance

Drivers’ hours and tachographs rules: goods vehicles (GV262)

6

tachograph:
As the last shift you did was on an analogue tachograph, the next time you use a digital tachograph do a manual entry to record the time from the end of the last shift to the start of the current shift with the ? symbol.
Do not attempt to manually enter the times for the shift you did on an analogue tachograph, it’s not necessary and can’t be done anyway because you cannot manually enter driving times, technically you’re committing an offence by not carrying the chart with you so there’s no point in compounding the offence by trying to do the impossible on a digital tachograph, record all the time you was on an analogue tachograph with the ? symbol, that’s what it’s for :wink:

Are you not required to record your WTD hours on the digi tacho? I guess not, as I’m sure it’s the drivers responsibility to monitor! :smiley:
And as long as you’re carrying ALL the records, that’s all that DVSA care about…

But a lot of firms want to know an employees WTD to tick the compliance box, and at my firm I’d be asked to record a days shift doing something else as ‘Other Work’. So to keep things simple, tick the boxes and not loose sleep. :laughing: I’d use the ‘?’ symbol to record from the end of my last digicard shift to the start of the analogue one. I’d then choose ‘Other Work’ for what I felt was appropriate* to cover that shift, and then the ‘?’ leading up to the current shift. No different really to when the office edit my Tacho records to include holiday…

  • Note: I wouldn’t care that much about recording the exact start and finish hours, just what I worked minus breaks.

What’s the odds you’re going to tell me I’ve made a false record! :stuck_out_tongue:
(Stated I was doing Other Work whilst driving a different vehicle! :laughing:)

And I’m still not going to loose any sleep over it. :wink:

7

Evil8Beezle:

tachograph:
As the last shift you did was on an analogue tachograph, the next time you use a digital tachograph do a manual entry to record the time from the end of the last shift to the start of the current shift with the ? symbol.
Do not attempt to manually enter the times for the shift you did on an analogue tachograph, it’s not necessary and can’t be done anyway because you cannot manually enter driving times, technically you’re committing an offence by not carrying the chart with you so there’s no point in compounding the offence by trying to do the impossible on a digital tachograph, record all the time you was on an analogue tachograph with the ? symbol, that’s what it’s for :wink:

Are you not required to record your WTD hours on the digi tacho? I guess not, as I’m sure it’s the drivers responsibility to monitor! :smiley:
And as long as you’re carrying ALL the records, that’s all that DVSA care about…

But a lot of firms want to know an employees WTD to tick the compliance box, and at my firm I’d be asked to record a days shift doing something else as ‘Other Work’. So to keep things simple, tick the boxes and not loose sleep. :laughing: I’d use the ‘?’ symbol to record from the end of my last digicard shift to the start of the analogue one. I’d then choose ‘Other Work’ for what I felt was appropriate* to cover that shift, and then the ‘?’ leading up to the current shift. No different really to when the office edit my Tacho records to include holiday…

  • Note: I wouldn’t care that much about recording the exact start and finish hours, just what I worked minus breaks.
    You cannot put a manual entry into a digital tachograph for hours worked without putting in the exact start and finish times :confused:

What’s the odds you’re going to tell me I’ve made a false record! :stuck_out_tongue:
(Stated I was doing Other Work whilst driving a different vehicle! :laughing:)

And I’m still not going to loose any sleep over it. :wink:

I believe some companies ask drivers to use the ? symbol for rest periods but I’ve no idea why :confused:
The ? symbol is for time that cannot legally be accounted for on the digital tachograph, such as when you’ve been using an analogue tachograph :wink:

Recording the time spent using an analogue tachograph as other work on your driver card is indeed making a false record but it’s also pointless because the record is already on the chart, you’re just making things more complicated than they need to be and technically making a false record in the process :slight_smile:

While many drivers complain about doing manual entries you would be doing them for no reason at-all, the company have the records from the driver card and the charts to help them monitor the WTD, in fact you would be complicating things by having 2 separate and mismatching records for the same shift, one on the driver card and another different record on the chart, if you got stopped by the DVSA you could probably expect to be kept for some time while they try to sort out the mess you’ve made of the records.

As far as tracking the workers working time for the WTD is concerned it’s the companies responsibility to monitor the hours, not that it really matters because as you know the DVSA aren’t bothered about it.

8

tachograph:
You cannot put a manual entry into a digital tachograph for hours worked without putting in the exact start and finish times :confused:

Yes you have to set a time, and I’d make that up as appropriate…

tachograph:
I believe some companies ask drivers to use the ? symbol for rest periods but I’ve no idea why :confused:
The ? symbol is for time that cannot legally be accounted for on the digital tachograph, such as when you’ve been using an analogue tachograph :wink:

Recording the time spent using an analogue tachograph as other work on your driver card is indeed making a false record but it’s also pointless because the record is already on the chart, you’re just making things more complicated than they need to be and technically making a false record in the process :slight_smile:

While many drivers complain about doing manual entries you would be doing them for no reason at-all, the company have the records from the driver card and the charts to help them monitor the WTD, in fact you would be complicating things by having 2 separate and mismatching records for the same shift, one on the driver card and another different record on the chart, if you got stopped by the DVSA you could probably expect to be kept for some time while they try to sort out the mess you’ve made of the records.

As far as tracking the workers working time for the WTD is concerned it’s the companies responsibility to monitor the hours, not that it really matters because as you know the DVSA aren’t bothered about it.

Yes we use the ‘?’ symbol to denote Rest between shifts, and I can only summise it’s so they can easily distinguish it when reading your records.
I agree with all that you’re saying, but at the same time I think firms may be more interested in their compliance being simple for them, than the drivers being 100% legit… To be honest, I’m pretty easy about it either way, as I’ve nothing to hide or worry about on my card. So if I do get a tug for possibly declaring something wrongly, I’m not going to stress about it, and I’m still be getting paid while I’m chatting to the officers! :smiley:

I know some will disapprove of having anything other than 100% accurate and perfect records, but as long as you’re not running bent or a bellend who can’t seem to stay legal on the Tacho, I can’t see my bed getting any less comfortable! :stuck_out_tongue:

9

So…there’s some differences in interpretation as to how to use the ‘?’ symbol - so would I be best just not entering it (given I’ve got the tacho card - I went up to the firm today for a chat and they took a copy and gave it back). The bloke who put the card in for me did it incorrectly, so the boss helped me out by showing me how to do the line thing on the back as it was only printing symbols.

As far as compliance is concerned - my digi card holds info about what I’ve done on the newer units, and I have a record of what I’ve done on the old unit - so I suppose I don’t need to muddy the waters with anything more?

And yes - @tachograph, I understand you’re not trying to patronize me. Hence, I’ve bought some reading material in book form so I can look it up ‘in real time’ if I get a bit lost. Trouble is, operating tachos isn’t covered in the DCPC, and there’s absolutely no mention of papers in the slightest, so I was relying on experienced people advising me how to do it properly. I think with the incorrect position, I may have misinterpreted an instruction. The guy put it on to POA then said ‘that’s your driving mode’ - he may have pointed to ‘Other Work’ but I didn’t see him do it. At the time I just thought “meh, it’s an old truck so the symbols probably don’t mean the same thing”. After chatting with the boss, he said it’s the same as a digi tacho in that ‘Other Work’ automatically changes to ‘Driving’ once the wheels turn.

I was a bit scared to open the box and mess with the card to check on my hours incase I stuffed it up totally so just worked on 4.5hrs real time. Even then, I had ample time to do the drops I needed to do - and as I said, I knew that without the break after 4.5 real hours, I’d be stuck in an area where it’s impossible to stop anywhere, so I had to. I’m sure that you’d probably agree that playing it safe with hours when I don’t know how to operate the tacho would be better than winging it - given I’d plenty enough time (on hourly pay) to do all the drops.

I’ve just about got my head round the driving/working times, the issue was not knowing how many hours I’d actually driven due to unfamiliarity with paper tachos.

Thanks for the input, all.

10

iomex:
So…there’s some differences in interpretation as to how to use the ‘?’ symbol - so would I be best just not entering it (given I’ve got the tacho card - I went up to the firm today for a chat and they took a copy and gave it back).

Technically when you next put your driver card in you should record the time you was using an analogue tachograph with the ? symbol, the bed symbol is for rest periods and the ? symbol is for time that cannot be accounted for, if you’re not yet comfortable doing manual entries and can’t get anyone to show you then just check that the rest time is not set to other work and crack on.

I would suggest that you learn to do manual entries when you can though, knowing how it works can save you making wrong records such as recording dail/weekly rests as other work :slight_smile:

I haven’t watched all through these videos so cannot vouch for the accuracy.

How to use Siemens DTCO 1381 Digital Tachograph unit PART 1

How to use Siemens DTCO 1381 Digital Tachograph unit PART 2

How to use Siemens DTCO 1381 Digital Tachograph unit PART 3

How to use Siemens DTCO 1381 Digital Tachograph unit PART 4

How to use Siemens DTCO 1381 Digital Tachograph unit PART 5

Tachograph Charts.

11

That’s really helpful, cheers