Sorry I know these questions have been done to death, but I need to clarify 2 situations.
Am I right in thinking POA time does not contribute to the 60hour working time hours?
Also I have a lot of other work (multi drop) and not that much driving time (typical driving time a day is around 3hours/3 and half hours), so is the following correc?
My day today looked like this
Start at 5am, 15mins break before the 6hours which was at 10.30am, (did around 2 n half hour driving and the rest other work).
30mins about 5hours later at 15.30pm. (managed to clock another 1hour of driving time before it reset back to showing 4 1/2 hours and break clocked showed 46mins).
Question is - is there a problem with having the 15+30 so far apart aslong as I don’t hit 4 n half hour driving time?
Guy at work said if I’m splitting my 45min break, then they should only be around 3 hours max apart.
As you never reached 4.5 driving time then only WTD is in effect which means no more than 6 hours work/drive at any point in the shift and if the work/drive time total for the shift is over 9 hours then a total of 45 mins break is needed which can be 15+15+15 or 15+30 or 30+15 or 45
There is no 3 hours rule between breaks
To answer your first question, yes. POA does not count towards your working time.
Guy at work is talking out of his backside. You do however have to take the second break before another six hours of working time is completed. So in your scenario, that has to be before 16.45.
Way I do it and been told in the past. Need take 45 before 9 hours shift time or driving time reached.
Can take 15 before 6 hours
Altough say you start at 5 take 15 mins at 7 you need take half hour by 13 15 due to 6 hour rule
Think people who told you about 3 hour rule are confused a bit. Best working a minimum of 3 hours before 1s break otherwise have to stop earlier as in scenario above.
As you never reached 4.5 driving time then only WTD is in effect which means no more than 6 hours work/drive at any point in the shift and if the work/drive time total for the shift is over 9 hours then a total of 45 mins break is needed which can be 15+15+15 or 15+30 or 30+15 or 45
There is no 3 hours rule between breaks
Interesting! In my old job we always had 15 + 30, because there was a risk of exceeding 4.5 hrs driving. But if there is no risk, then breaks are a lot more flexible. [emoji106]
The 6 hour rule
you can’t work more than 6 hours at any point without a 15 min break, a break of 15 or more allows you to work upto another 6 hours before needing another 15 min break. This works the same as driving 4.5 hours and a 45. (Only driving and other work count as working time)
The total break
This is dependent on the total amount of working time in the shift, only driving and other work count as working time for the wtd.
0-6 hours of working time = 0 break required
Over 6 but not over 9 = 30 mins of break/s
Over 9 = 45 mins of break/s required.
A shift can only be have 1 of the 3 apply, so ignore the other 2
Breaks can be taken anywhere in the shift to count towards the total required, except the very beginning or end of the shift, so each break must have at least 1 min of work either side of it and they must be at least 15 mins long to count.
The 6 - 9 and 9+ are purely used to determine how much break is required in total and are nothing to do with when any breaks are required.
So anyone who drives over 4.5 hours in a shift will have a 45 for that and tick the total break box for any shift, so all they’ll need to worry about is the 6 hour rule.
These are extreme examples
of what is legal
Work 6
Break 15
Work 6
Break 15
Work 2:14
Break 15
Work 1 min
I’l just stick to the 15+30 which will cover me under Driving time and WTD.
Shift is always 9hours atleast.
Will take my 15 before 6hours, and 30mins before the 45 min drive back to depot. Like that I’m not taking my breaks at the beginning or end of my shift, and have done 45min total breaks which resets drive time and complies with the 9hr+ WTD rule. Of course if by chance I do end up near my 4 1/2 hour drive time then of course need to take my break.
I thought this had the .gov video.
My tacho said I had breached WTD as if it didn’t recognise my 17min break as sufficient. Does it think 20 or 30 is reqd?
stu675:
I thought this had the .gov video.
My tacho said I had breached WTD as if it didn’t recognise my 17min break as sufficient. Does it think 20 or 30 is reqd?
Your tacho wouldn’t tell you that; Tachomaster or similar would, and the answer would depend on when you took the break.
If that break was the only one you took on a day during which you did more than six hours of work (forget about how much driving, it’s irrelevant where WTD is concerned) then you have not taken sufficient break.
It’s simple. You take your first break at or before six hours of work. That break must be minimum fifteen minutes. If you are working past that, you need to take a further minimum fifteen minutes if you’re working up to nine hours and another fifteen before you reach twelve hours work.
I repeat; this is excluding any breaks which need to be taken due to you reaching the limit for a driving period. In practice, the vast majority of us manage to comply with both sets of regs perfectly easily by taking a second break of thirty minutes to “reset the clock” on the tacho. If you’re working for a firm whose practices do not allow you to do this, leave.
Sorry I know these questions have been done to death, but I need to clarify 2 situations.
Am I right in thinking POA time does not contribute to the 60hour working time hours?
Also I have a lot of other work (multi drop) and not that much driving time (typical driving time a day is around 3hours/3 and half hours), so is the following correc?
My day today looked like this
Start at 5am, 15mins break before the 6hours which was at 10.30am, (did around 2 n half hour driving and the rest other work).
Yes
30mins about 5hours later at 15.30pm. (managed to clock another 1hour of driving time before it reset back to showing 4 1/2 hours and break clocked showed 46mins).
Question is - is there a problem with having the 15+30 so far apart aslong as I don’t hit 4 n half hour driving time?
Guy at work said if I’m splitting my 45min break, then they should only be around 3 hours max apart.
Yes I’d have a problem with that , should be 20 mins / 35 mins , if your having a 45 min break make sit a 50 , daily rests should be + 15 mins , 9 hrs 15 , 11 hrs 15 , this is what I always do
Always do a proper 30 min check in morning , not the 15 min coffee break that 99% find so amusing on here !! Idiots
.
I’d take my 30 minute lunch break earlier. If you started at 5am sod leaving it til 3.30 in the afternoon regardless of it’s legality. That’s over 10hrs you’ve done with just a 15 minute break which is ridiculous in the 21st century.
The longer you leave it the more likely there is that something will happen which will result in you starting to do things like tip or load on break so you can get it in so you then find you’re doing a 12hr shift with just 15 minutes actual real break, not just recorded break, and then that ends up eventually being working through, trying to ■■■■■■ enough time on breaks when loading and tipping and eating your lunch whilst you drive. That’s what slaves do.
stu675:
I thought this had the .gov video.
My tacho said I had breached WTD as if it didn’t recognise my 17min break as sufficient. Does it think 20 or 30 is reqd?
Your tacho wouldn’t tell you that; Tachomaster or similar would, and the answer would depend on when you took the break.
If that break was the only one you took on a day during which you did more than six hours of work (forget about how much driving, it’s irrelevant where WTD is concerned) then you have not taken sufficient break.
It’s simple. You take your first break at or before six hours of work. That break must be minimum fifteen minutes. If you are working past that, you need to take a further minimum fifteen minutes if you’re working up to nine hours and another fifteen before you reach twelve hours work.
I repeat; this is excluding any breaks which need to be taken due to you reaching the limit for a driving period. In practice, the vast majority of us manage to comply with both sets of regs perfectly easily by taking a second break of thirty minutes to “reset the clock” on the tacho. If you’re working for a firm whose practices do not allow you to do this, leave.
Between my break ending at 14: 29 and 20:19 is 5 hrs 50. Yet the tacho definitely told me I was going to breach WTD. And at 20:46 told me I had breached WTD.
Just like it would tell you you’d breached driving hrs ('71 plate truck from this yr so might be more up-to-date than you’ve come across?)
You won’t get fined for a wtd infringement but I would suggest that a 15 minutes break in a 15 hour shift is not a healthy way to work, nor does it look very good on your driver card.
By the way, the fact that you’re next having a weekly rest period doesn’t negate the break requirements.
