Hi guys just a little question that I need answering, hope someone can answer it. Basically Ive never had to use much POA, so if for instance I start work at 4.00am, by 10.00am I would need 15 mins break because the 6 hour rule, in this period I record 1 hour POA, so does this mean I could work till 11.00am before 6 hour rule kicks in. Cheers guys
Yes.
Yes, POA doesn’t count as working time.
Thanks mate much appreciated
Got to have 45 mins break before 9 hours even if 8hrs 59mins POA I believe
Judehamish:
Got to have 45 mins break before 9 hours even if 8hrs 59mins POA I believe
That’s not correct, there’s no rule that says you must have 45 minutes break before 9 hours.
That belongs in this thread 
Must be a NFT only rule then! Many thanks for the correction
Does poa need to be set amounts I.e. 15 or 30 etc
red7jase:
Does poa need to be set amounts I.e. 15 or 30 etc
No.
So 1 minute hear and their could delay the wtd rule. Not that I use it. Just interested.
red7jase:
So 1 minute hear and their could delay the wtd rule. Not that I use it. Just interested.
A minute of break here or there has the same effect. It doesn’t have to be a 15, a 30 or even a 45 to “stop the clock” on working time. Of course it goes without saying that odd minutes of break here and there will NOT satisfy the driving time regs, but they will count against WTD.
the maoster:
red7jase:
So 1 minute hear and their could delay the wtd rule. Not that I use it. Just interested.A minute of break here or there has the same effect. It doesn’t have to be a 15, a 30 or even a 45 to “stop the clock” on working time. Of course it goes without saying that odd minutes of break here and there will NOT satisfy the driving time regs, but they will count against WTD.
Taking say 5 or 10 min breaks will DELAY the 6 hour break rule for WTD but will not count as breaks for the WTD because breaks must be at least 15 mins long in order to count for WTD
I never mentioned that a short break would count as a WTD break, I merely said that it would stop the clock. Something you apparently agree with.
red7jase:
So 1 minute hear and their could delay the wtd rule. Not that I use it. Just interested.
Yes.
And I get this from a very well respected TM at a very large company that our agency use to serve. Every minute on POA, delays your WTD break by the same amount.
Must be correct as I have NEVER had an infringement for it.
Ken.
…Then we wonder why we end up working 15,15,15,13,13,13 and getting paid only 48 hours of it. 
If we all insisted upon taking our breaks as required, and never using POA at all - no firm would be able to make you work “free overtime” would they?
Night shifts - limited to 10 hours. Take one hour of breaks and you can make that shift last 11 hours. Take POA as well - and you’ll end up doing 12-15 hours for the same pay.
Get PLANNED for 15 hours at the outset? - It’s do-able when on agency when you’re getting paid by the hour - but you try booking 7 hours overtime as a full timer doing the same job!
Also, you try booking off at the 8 hour mark …
These EU rules don’t work - do they… We never had any rights worth having to protect in the first place. POA is just a management tool to get full timers to do unpaid overtime imo. We should boycott the use of it.
If the firm know you’re booking off at the 10 hour mark on a night shift - they are not going to be sending you out 8 hours in on a run with “waiting for ages to get tipped” issues attached - are they?
Flexibility only works if you get early finishes enough to compensate for the “over-runs” when salaried. We all know people working 50-60 hour weeks for flat money though - don’t we? 
Does anybody actually work for a firm that does not pay time for this poa ■■■■■■■■, so therefore they end up with a load of unpaid hours at the end of the week, as Winseer says 
Surely not, …and if you are why are you not booking on ‘other work’ instead, in order to counteract this rip off…
I start my at a set point and end it at a another point. Everything in middle is paid. Via salary but none the less. If I was expected to use poa and not get get paid for that time then I would be seeking other employment.
robroy:
Does anybody actually work for a firm that does not pay time for this poa ■■■■■■■■, so therefore they end up with a load of unpaid hours at the end of the week, as Winseer says
Surely not, …and if you are why are you not booking on ‘other work’ instead, in order to counteract this rip off…
This is the usual crap that woinseer comes out with to make himself look stupid, he repeatedly comes put with this, I can’t be bothered to pull him on it anymore, I do believe in the past he’s said he doesn’t know of any firms that work like this, yet he continues to make himself look stupid by coming out with it again, it don’t make sense to me
stevieboy308:
robroy:
Does anybody actually work for a firm that does not pay time for this poa ■■■■■■■■, so therefore they end up with a load of unpaid hours at the end of the week, as Winseer says
Surely not, …and if you are why are you not booking on ‘other work’ instead, in order to counteract this rip off…This is the usual crap that woinseer comes out with to make himself look stupid, he repeatedly comes put with this, I can’t be bothered to pull him on it anymore, I do believe in the past he’s said he doesn’t know of any firms that work like this, yet he continues to make himself look stupid by coming out with it again, it don’t make sense to me
Yeh, well I don’t know of any firms like that either, but I can’t see anybody being stupid enough to put up with it anyway, …or on the other hand maybe I can.
robroy:
Does anybody actually work for a firm that does not pay time for this poa ■■■■■■■■, so therefore they end up with a load of unpaid hours at the end of the week, as Winseer says
Surely not, …and if you are why are you not booking on ‘other work’ instead, in order to counteract this rip off…
If you get paid a salary for a max 48 hour week average and you average 50-60 hours like I suggested - you are performing unpaid overtime every week if you use POA whilst “Salaried”.
If you’re paid by the hour - POA is presumably paid too, and you’re better off, being paid to sit in tip queues, and the like. POA doesn’t affect you, and yes - becomes a tool for the driver who can then do a 15 hour shift paid 15 hours - because it suits the driver to do that. I’ve just had nearly five years of that on agency, but have now decided to settle into a somewhat easier hourage regime, now being on the wrong side of 50 as I am.