Current wtd break rules
Upto 6hrs - 15 mins
Between 6-9hrs - 30mins can be split into 2x 15mins
9hrs plus - 45 mins can be split into 3x 15mins
So this is job and finish and only a 2/3/4/5 hour local run round the doors. Do I need to take a 15 min to comply? Basically I’d like to avoid taking that 15mins. Say my run is 2 hours long it seems a bit bizarre to need to take a 15 min break.
Take me out the driving hours rules as I don’t get near 4.5hrs drive time.
If you’re not doing a combination of working/driving 6hrs then no you don’t need to.
That’s what’s I was thinking, one more question mr Conor. Say I work bang on 6hrs can I miss taking that 15 min break if I have 15/30 mins poa? Reason I ask is breaks are deducted and poa isn’t.
Dafproblems:
Current wtd break rulesUpto 6hrs - 15 mins
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What if it’s a 10 min shift? That’s less than 6 hrs right? Do you still need a 15 min break?
Of course you don’t [emoji849]
Less than 6 hrs is no break required. (You must take 15 before exceeding 6 hrs)
Wot happens if you get a 7 hour shift, and get let go home six hours early, one hour into it?
Do you still need to show a break some hours after you’ve already bunked off, if you’re being paid for hours beyond six? 
What good are 3x15 minute breaks - when you need a 1st break of 45 minutes or second break of 30 minutes - to clear down your '45 and the 4.5hours driving time?
Take 15 minutes no later than 5hrs55mins into the shift
Take another 30 minutes no later than 8hrs55mins into the shift (earlier, if you’ve done 4hrs29m driving by that point)
Take a third break of 15 minutes between 9 and 12 hours through the shift
Take a 4th break of 15 minutes between 12 and 15 hours.
Thus, 1hr15m of breaks in total - should be enough to keep the infringometer at bay IF spaced out properly.
Winseer:
Wot happens if you get a 7 hour shift, and get let go home six hours early, one hour into it?Do you still need to show a break some hours after you’ve already bunked off, if you’re being paid for hours beyond six?
IT IS WHAT YOU WORK NOT WHAT YOU ARE PAID
Winseer:
What good are 3x15 minute breaks - when you need a 1st break of 45 minutes or second break of 30 minutes - to clear down your '45 and the 4.5hours driving time?
IF YOU KNOW THAT THE DRIVING TIME WILL EXCEED 4.5 HOURS THEN DO A 45 OR A 15+30 BREAK
BREAKS COUNT FR BOTH THE TWO SETS OF RULES
Winseer:
Take 15 minutes no later than 5hrs55mins into the shift
Take another 30 minutes no later than 8hrs55mins into the shift (earlier, if you’ve done 4hrs29m driving by that point)
Take a third break of 15 minutes between 9 and 12 hours through the shift
Take a 4th break of 15 minutes between 12 and 15 hours.Thus, 1hr15m of breaks in total - should be enough to keep the infringometer at bay IF spaced out properly.
THERE IS NO 9 HOUR RULE IF THE WORK/DRIVE IN YOUR SHIFT IS OVER 9 HOURS
EXAMPLE
WORK 4
DRIVE 2
BREAK 15M
WORK 4
DRIVE 2
BREAK 30M
DRIVE 2
WORK 15M
ROG:
Winseer:
Wot happens if you get a 7 hour shift, and get let go home six hours early, one hour into it?Do you still need to show a break some hours after you’ve already bunked off, if you’re being paid for hours beyond six?
IT IS WHAT YOU WORK NOT WHAT YOU ARE PAID
What you are paid IS what you have booked as “Work” - or else it would be proven that you’ve just committed some kind of “wage fraud”, not to mention the insurance aspect of you being involved in an accident on the road in what amouts to “Firm’s Time” but in your own car colliding with say, a works vehicle and a member of the public… Just saying.
Winseer:
What good are 3x15 minute breaks - when you need a 1st break of 45 minutes or second break of 30 minutes - to clear down your '45 and the 4.5hours driving time?IF YOU KNOW THAT THE DRIVING TIME WILL EXCEED 4.5 HOURS THEN DO A 45 OR A 15+30 BREAK
BREAKS COUNT FR BOTH THE TWO SETS OF RULES
You can’t always know if your regular “domestic” hours - will on any given day “exceed 4.5 hours”. You might have a duty with a total of 3 hours per day driving content, but get stuck at the Dartford Crossing for 2 hours solid, and need to re-think your entire set of planned breaks… Might not happen often to Full time “routiners” people, but to agency - it’s an everyday occurance.Winseer:
Take 15 minutes no later than 5hrs55mins into the shift
Take another 30 minutes no later than 8hrs55mins into the shift (earlier, if you’ve done 4hrs29m driving by that point)
Take a third break of 15 minutes between 9 and 12 hours through the shift
Take a 4th break of 15 minutes between 12 and 15 hours.Thus, 1hr15m of breaks in total - should be enough to keep the infringometer at bay IF spaced out properly.
THERE IS NO 9 HOUR RULE IF THE WORK/DRIVE IN YOUR SHIFT IS OVER 9 HOURS
EXAMPLE
WORK 4
DRIVE 2
BREAK 15M
WORK 4
DRIVE 2
BREAK 30M
DRIVE 2
WORK 15M
“There’s no need to shout Son”, she said.
If you take a 15 minute break at 5hr 55min and then take no further break until 10hrs into your shift - you’ll get an infringement for not taking 30 minutes rather than 15 during that time.
The same tacho units that display this - are also the ones that display “10 hours duty time” warnings on night shift, which of course suggest that both can be opted out of.
Thing is, if you ■■■■ this up by taking insufficient breaks on the longer (10hour+) shifts, then the driver gets it in the neck for “insufficient breaks”, whereas only the firm’s acting managers can drop you in the crapper - should you take excess breaks “just to be sure”… It is better to be “Let go” for “clash of personality” reasons than to get multiple tacho infringements, which will show with one’s next would-be employer of course, unlike one’s social record with any past acting managers…
At RM for example, you can expect the spanish inquisition should you ever take more than 90 minutes of breaks in a shift, especially one under ten hours in duration.
At Palletrunners - you’ll need to book a 15 minute break either on a derv island at the motorway services, or whilst halted for enough time in the hub tip queue - both practices I dislike intently, but will land you with infringements any day you’re even slightly delayed on the 4hr+ run upto the pallethub otherwise… If this has since been stamped out, then post to correct me by all means. 
Winseer:
If you take a 15 minute break at 5hr 55min and then take no further break until 10hrs into your shift - you’ll get an infringement for not taking 30 minutes rather than 15 during that time.
The same tacho units that display this - are also the ones that display “10 hours duty time” warnings on night shift, which of course suggest that both can be opted out of.Thing is, if you ■■■■ this up by taking insufficient breaks on the longer (10hour+) shifts, then the driver gets it in the neck for “insufficient breaks”, whereas only the firm’s acting managers can drop you in the crapper - should you take excess breaks “just to be sure”… It is better to be “Let go” for “clash of personality” reasons than to get multiple tacho infringements, which will show with one’s next would-be employer of course, unlike one’s social record with any past acting managers…
At RM for example, you can expect the spanish inquisition should you ever take more than 90 minutes of breaks in a shift, especially one under ten hours in duration.
At Palletrunners - you’ll need to book a 15 minute break either on a derv island at the motorway services, or whilst halted for enough time in the hub tip queue - both practices I dislike intently, but will land you with infringements any day you’re even slightly delayed on the 4hr+ run upto the pallethub otherwise… If this has since been stamped out, then post to correct me by all means.
You’re right and wrong. I know my tacho gives a wtd warning if you’ve not completed a 30 min break before exceeding 6 hrs, when the law only requires 15. But surely (presenting your tacho card to potential employers) you’re at the mercy of the vagaries of their tacho software as to how legally accurate it is rather than the tacho that you used. As you say, a good reason to take more breaks than less.
Please explain how an infringement occurs when the law has not been broken 
Extreme example of WTD and no infringement.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
A manual entry for a 15 hour shift spent in De-Kit? - It is quite something to get one’s breaks to exactly 15 minutes when you might be away from your cab for that extra minute that has mere mortals among us booking 16-19 minutes for each of those 15 minute breaks. Much easier to manage if you manually enter the 3 lots of 15 minutes in retrospect.
There’s no 4.5hrs driving to be cleared down, and hence no 30 minute break is ever needed.
WTD for a day’s Non-driving duty then - in the real world.
The 10 hour limit on night shifts - also doesn’t apply to a 15 hour spread from 06:00 to 21:00.
The real villains when it comes to “WTD enforcement” - are the acting managers who’ll ■■■■ you if you take a minute’s break over “necessary legally”, but slam the “banned from site” door in your face when getting 3xWTD infringements in a year “Not taking enough breaks” or more commonly “taking your first 15 minute break over 6hrs into your duty” meaning if you ever get stuck in traffic in this job - you’re not gonna last long in the real world under such management…
Dafproblems:
Current wtd break rulesUpto 6hrs - 15 mins (applies throughout shift, can’t work more than 6 hours without a break)
Between 6-9hrs - 30mins can be split into 2x 15mins (if finishing between 6-9 hours)
9hrs plus - 45 mins can be split into 3x 15mins (yes, needs to be done by end of shift)So this is job and finish and only a 2/3/4/5 hour local run round the doors. Do I need to take a 15 min to comply? Basically I’d like to avoid taking that 15mins. Say my run is 2 hours long it seems a bit bizarre to need to take a 15 min break.
Take me out the driving hours rules as I don’t get near 4.5hrs drive time.
The six hour rule always applies at any time in the shift, and the minimum to reset the six hours is 15 minutes break.
The rules regarding 6-9 hours and 9+ hours apply at the end of the shift.
Another important point is the shift can’t finish on break, so always at least 1 minute of work after the last break.
So, to illustrate, you can be past 9 hours work on only a 15 minute break, so long as another 30 minutes is logged by the end of the shift.
However, if finishing between 6 and 9 hours, you have to have logged 30 minutes total.
Dafproblems:
That’s what’s I was thinking, one more question mr Conor. Say I work bang on 6hrs can I miss taking that 15 min break if I have 15/30 mins poa? Reason I ask is breaks are deducted and poa isn’t.
As Conor doesn’t seem to have replied, POA does not count as work, so indeed if you have logged 15 minutes POA in a 6 hour shift, you have only done 5 hours 45 minutes work / driving total (assuming no breaks have been taken of course).
“Popping your card” with “other work” selected - is now the way to go.
If you switch it to break, and THEN push the button to pop your card - you’ll now get carpeted for it.
3x15 minute breaks - will NOT clear down 4.5hrs of driving. The first break needs to be at least the 15 minutes, but at least a 30min break is then needed to clear down the 4.5hrs driving.
30 minutes break and 30 minutes of POA shortly after - appears to clear-down 4.5hrs driving BUT it won’t register as “cleared” on the software that examines your card data for “infringements”.
The “Get-around” is “don’t use POA” of course.
Also, taking your weekly rest “Mid-Week” can also throw up the old “Insufficient weekly rest” flag - which is actually a computer program error, since you’ve taken the full 2 days off mid-week which COUNTS.
Software is written by people, and not all of those people who can code - also drive a truck from day-to-day.
“Software Patches” tend to be more about “fixing windows issues” rather than fixing faux-flag driver errors that were not actually faults with the driver at all.
Hopefully, the latest versions of “tacho examination software” will have ironed all such bugs out by this point, but I woulnd’t want to bet on that!
I’ve never understood why people select the bed symbol prior to ejecting their card. Pedantically the act of ejecting the card is in itself other work, so you’ve created a false record.
That and the fact that it’s pointless anyway as an ejected card gathers no information at all, information is only written to the card via a manual entry when next inserted into the machine.
the maoster:
I’ve never understood why people select the bed symbol prior to ejecting their card. Pedantically the act of ejecting the card is in itself other work, so you’ve created a false record.That and the fact that it’s pointless anyway as an ejected card gathers no information at all, information is only written to the card via a manual entry when next inserted into the machine.
The act of inserting and ejecting the card - writes the timestamp THAT it has been inserted/ejected.
This is important when attempting to book hours that are not recorded once the card is out of the device.
"10 minutes lead-in, 10 minutes lead out, and “15 minutes to do walkaround checks” are the norm.
That is, you are not expected to be booked on prior upto 10 minutes before inserting your card, your vehicle isn’t to move for 15 minutes after you insert your card (to do your walkaround checks) and a 10 minute to walk from vehicle to office to be booked off AFTER ejecting your card - seems perfectly reasable as well, and I would imagine has already been approved by unions and management all over the country…
Any “Differences” would likely be among the more Michael Maus outfits where you get told stuff like “You are paid from the moment you insert your card to the moment you pop it - no more, no less”
Only to not be handed the keys to your start-of-duty vehicle for about 2-3 hours after you turn up for an assignment, and finding on payday that you didn’t in fact get paid for the 2-3 hours prior to being allocated a vehicle…
The “Getaround” for THAT is, of course - using your digicard as a “clock in card” by downloading it first thing upon arrival for a shift, and downloading it just prior to being booked off at the end of your shift.
I see tangent man is at it again.
The mode actually selected when ejecting shouldn’t make any difference, apart from it will be the mode selected when the next driver comes along. Usually that next driver will need to show some other work to begin the day, so by all accounts having other work already selected will be of assistance.
I did work at a place a few years ago where the drivers had been so brainwashed by someone or other, that they would almost recoil in horror at the suggestion of not putting the tacho to break before ejecting. All a complete fishwives’ tale of course.
I was purely making the point that at least 1 minute of work has to follow on from a break, otherwise it won’t be considered.
Noremac:
I see tangent man is at it again.The mode actually selected when ejecting shouldn’t make any difference, apart from it will be the mode selected when the next driver comes along. Usually that next driver will need to show some other work to begin the day, so by all accounts having other work already selected will be of assistance.
I did work at a place a few years ago where the drivers had been so brainwashed by someone or other, that they would almost recoil in horror at the suggestion of not putting the tacho to break before ejecting. All a complete fishwives’ tale of course.
I was purely making the point that at least 1 minute of work has to follow on from a break, otherwise it won’t be considered.
If you insert your card with it on break, then your card will register a minute’s break when you are actually working “putting the card in”.
Showing a minute “other work” at the end of duty, gets around the need to “not end one’s duty on a break” as well.
The display above - shows that minute booked before ejecting the card, so is perfectly correct.
I’m just stating the get-arounds currently in use where I work. We are now instructed to eject and insert the card with “other work” already selected on the digidevice.
On another note, I have not heard of any hoo-har relating to inserting one’s card with the display reading “Driving without card inserted”…
Personally, I press the button to clear it, stick it on break for 1 minute to clear the flashing “Card!” bit, and then switch back to “other work” before inserting my own card here…
Winseer:
If you insert your card with it on break, then your card will register a minute’s break when you are actually working “putting the card in”.
Sorry mate, it doesn’t work quite that way; even the most hamfisted individual (ie me) can switch the modes upon insertion quickly enough that it hasn’t actually registered anything. It takes more than 30 seconds for the tacho to gather it’s skirts and actually start recording.
There’s 2 parts to the wtd breaks.
The 6 hour rule
you can’t work more than 6 hours at any point without a 15 min break, a break of 15 or more allows you to work upto another 6 hours before needing another 15 min break. This works the same as driving 4.5 hours and a 45. (Only driving and other work count as working time)
The total break
This is dependent on the total amount of working time in the shift, only driving and other work count as working time for the wtd.
0-6 hours of working time = 0 break required
Over 6 but not over 9 = 30 mins of break/s
Over 9 = 45 mins of break/s required.
A shift can only be have 1 of the 3 apply, so ignore the other 2
Breaks can be taken anywhere in the shift to count towards the total required, except the very beginning or end of the shift, so each break must have at least 1 min of work either side of it and they must be at least 15 mins long to count.
The 6 - 9 and 9+ are purely used to determine how much break is required in total and are nothing to do with when any breaks are required.
So anyone who drives over 4.5 hours in a shift will have a 45 for that and tick the total break box for any shift, so all they’ll need to worry about is the 6 hour rule.
These are extreme examples
of what is legal
Work 6
Break 15
Work 6
Break 15
Work 2:14
Break 15
Work 1 min
Work 6
Break 25
Work 6
Break 20
Work 2:15
Work 2
Poa 11
Work 2
If I work and drove for 6hrs