The best British built long haul truck ever?

[zb_anorak]

Bewick:

Jelliot:
It would depend on what your idea of long haul is, mine is anything East of Moscow or South of Istanbul. The closest thing would be a Transconti but as that was wasn’t built in Britain it wouldn’t count. Which would leave A Volvo that would have been built in Scotland.

Anything that had a wood framed cab skinned in fiber glass, or any fiber glass in the driver area would be a none starter, the guys that came up with that idea should have been shot.
Have a look at he fatality rates of accidents in those type of vehicle and compare them with Scandinavian trucks then tell me how good fiber glass cabs were.

Jeff…

As regards accident survivability, statistics in the 60’s/70’s proved that the fibreglass cabs were actually better than steel,well in the UK anyway,I know some may disagree but it was a fact never the less.Cheers Bewick.

Somewhere else on this forum, there is an old Atkinson advert, which makes a similar claim. It says that the driver is safer if he is thrown clear, rather than protected from the impact by the structure of the vehicle. I always thought it was a lie dreamed up by unscrupulous Atkinson salesmen. I would like to read any report which backs it up with actual recorded data.

[windrush]

We had plenty of Fodens involved in smashes and the driver’s always escaped injury even though the cab was wrecked. Soon repared with a fibreglass kit and some moulds though! Couldn’t possibly comment on long haul though, we didn’t go outside of Britain and (according to the RHA guy who gave us tachograph training) this country isnt big enough to need a night out!!!

Pete.

[jazzandy]

Absolute rubbish on behalf of retards who imagined they could prolong the life of substandard equipment for British drivers.
There is an absolute mountain of evidence that drivers are safer in their cabs rather than being thrown onto the tarmac in the path of other vehicles.

The only British built trucks which had any credibility on long haul were the T45 series and the Seddon Atki 400’s.

Otherwise we were so behind Europe and Scandinavia that we were a running joke.

A bit like hanging on to steam trains when the rest of the world had already dieseled and electrified!

[gingerfold]

Whilst the question is a good one for debate and opinion there is no definitive answer. Do you mean from the driver’s perspective or from the owner / operators viewpoint? What were the weekly operating costs? what were the whole-life vehicle costs? What was the vehicle’s productivity? Did it make the owner / operator any money? Was it used for general haulage hire and reward or own account operations? What era are you referring to? Is it because you actually drove a particular vehicle or because you bought or operated that vehicle? It’s the old saying “one man’s meat is another man’s poison”.

[jelliot]

Well done Jazzandy I totally agree.
If it is safer to be thrown out the cab then they would have fitted ejector seat rather than seat belts.

Jeff…

[rivits]

Think we are drifting a wee bit from the main topic guys!!

[zb_anorak]

Jelliot:
Well done Jazzandy I totally agree.
If it is safer to be thrown out the cab then they would have fitted ejector seat rather than seat belts.

Jeff…

Hahaha.

rivits:
Think we are drifting a wee bit from the main topic guys!!

It was inevitable that a “Best British lorry” thread would end up discussing why none of them was as good an average European one, overall. Even the Transcon, with its “best of everything” specification, had its faults: this forum contains numerous posts mentioning bad brakes, dodgy electrics, accelerator cable seizures etc. There is a possibly apocryphal tale about a Ford salesman who, when asked which bits Ford made, said, “The badge and the profit.” He could have said, simply, “The mistakes.” It was the same with Atkinson- putting a proper steel cab on a Borderer chassis should have made the 400 any haulier’s dream but, again, it was a balls-up: corrosion, self-disconnecting gear linkages, unequal steering lock and air filter clogging are all mentioned on here. That leaves the B-series, of the lorries mentioned so far- its cab may have been a brilliant piece of engineering, but it had a 2ft high engine hump, when the Continentals had been building walk-across three-seaters since the mid sixties. Commercial Motor marked it down for being noisy. Were its interior fittings of equal quality to those of a European make?

There is a thread on here, which asks opinions on what is the ideal specification of a 1970s tractor unit. The simple answer could be, “Any specification you like, but the vehicle designed by European engineers.”

[rivits]

Yes as far as I am aware the Seddon Atkinson 400 was blighted by the tin worm but no more than the Volvo F88 & F86 , even the brilliant DAF 2800 and Scania 111 rusted like a bean tin in a salt mine although this might have been more down too any vehicle of the era having little or no rustproofing.I always remember the 400 looking quite commanding on the road and as far as I am aware when the 401 came out they had the rust & corrosion issues sorted out. It was as far as I know a good machine with a 14 litre ■■■■■■■ fitted.

[rivits]

gingerfold:
Whilst the question is a good one for debate and opinion there is no definitive answer. Do you mean from the driver’s perspective or from the owner / operators viewpoint? What were the weekly operating costs? what were the whole-life vehicle costs? What was the vehicle’s productivity? Did it make the owner / operator any money? Was it used for general haulage hire and reward or own account operations? What era are you referring to? Is it because you actually drove a particular vehicle or because you bought or operated that vehicle? It’s the old saying “one man’s meat is another man’s poison”.

I was looking for ideas from both perspective, I myself am a mere employee and the Atkinson Raider, Defender, Borderer and Venturer were well past their sell by date when I started driving for a living although I find it incredible how many of these vehicles have survived in the vintage scene after many of them doing well in excess of 1 million miles. I wonder how many miles these two old girls did between them and if they ever had the cylinder head bolts ever removed!!

[mickv64]

Strato took some beating for me 320 big cam/twin splitter Daf cab. Perfect, apart from speed limiter. had 3 at Cazaly bros, later one one had the t3 cab. Same size cab but single bunk and only shelves at the front not lockers, shame, penny pinching.

[carryfast-yeti]

good thread this,but can’t really answer the question,as although i’ve driven Transcon’s,SedAtki 400’s etc.,i’ve only pottered about mostly,and not done any ‘long-haul’.i do feel i’ve missed out on the ‘B’ series ERFs,as i’ve only driven them with 180s with DB boxes,and they were dreadfull in the '80s.also,worst heaters ever?

[bradfordlad9999]

ERF EC14 Olympic cab eaton twin splitter 525 ■■■■■■■ Bullit proof run forever

[craig_111]

The late Pat Kennett once did a head to head test in TRUCK Magazine pitting a Leyland Marathon against the Volvo F10 . . . with the result that the Marathon came out as the better of the two! Obviously his patriotic feelings had gotten in the way of commonsense.

Anyway, I always thought the big cabbed Roadtrain wasn’t a bad old beast if you specced it up right and could live with the rocking cab at higher speeds. At Conway Baileys we had the aforementioned 14 litre ■■■■■■■ with the pump opened up a tad, Fuller gearboxes and Rockwell axles. They earned a lot of money and put more than a couple of Scanias to shame.

flic.kr/p/ddq436

~ Craig

[punchy_dan]

Although not a long hauler my fathers b series was an excellent lorry for him ,plenty of space in the dusty bin days out mum dad and 5 kids in the cab ,the ■■■■■■■ 240 small cam was good on fuel and didnt go too bad at 38 tonne ,it was better again when we fitted a eaton 2 speed axle and parabolic front springs . and the cable driven tacho ! And the blue trim looked great.

[suedehead]

MickV64:
Strato took some beating for me 320 big cam/twin splitter Daf cab. Perfect, apart from speed limiter. had 3 at Cazaly bros, later one one had the t3 cab. Same size cab but single bunk and only shelves at the front not lockers, shame, penny pinching.

Didnt they use Pegaso and then Iveco cabs?

[punchy_dan]

bradfordlad9999:
ERF EC14 Olympic cab eaton twin splitter 525 ■■■■■■■ Bullit proof run forever

Me too

[straight_eight]

The Strato with the 14 litre 465 was makes a good canidate, always thought both the Seddon and the Pegaso were a much better looking truck than the Daf. ERF EC olyimpic was a well put-together truck, with loads of space in the cab and a very tidy chassis arrangement, another nice looking truck.
Chris.

[saviem]

Evening Gentlemen, well what a potential can of worms this thread could open up!

Forget the Transcontinental, not British…but the driver in all of us would love the (Berliet), cab, less so the brakes…and the electrics…reminiscent of Christmas tree fairy lights!!! Ireplaced a Mack F786, with a Transcontinental…what a terrible mistake, and what a “joke” of a lorry!

Bewick is right on the accident statistics for the survival rates of occupants of GRP cabs,…but they were of a time. Closing speeds were lower, as was traffic density. The actual stats are still available from the Department of Transport, if anyone wishes to check!!

Gaffers motor/drivers motor, there is the crux of the question. Of course Atkinson was the best, (they kept working with minimal downtime), but so did ERF. And that SMC/steel B series cab was a gem…and if you wish to “rubbish” them, well, did you drive one? For it was a very comfortable workplace, sitting above a superb drivetrain. Now, fast forward to the E Series that I owned and ran were always below budget, and appreciably cheaper, (and easier), on my wallet that those from Volvo and Scania in my operation.

Now for myself I did massive mileages in Mr Fodens vehicles. S18, S20, S21, S36, S39. I loved them,( having written that it makes me realise that I am getting past my sell by date)! They had their “foibles”, and their peculiarities, and you had to know how to get the best from them. But they took some abuse, and always were ready for the next job without fail! But Foden “lost it”, in terms of support, and product, then introduced the ideal hire and reward lorry in the Haulmaster…too little, to late! And Paccar produced the UKs Kenworth in the 4000 series, but it was a specialist, non volume vehicle, as was the superb 8 wheeler, perhaps the best that any manufacturer has offered in the market place.

Now I loved to drive my families Ergomatic Marshall. Perhaps the most comfortable drive of any of its period. Easily forgiven for its modest power, for one never grew tired at its wheel, (yes 18 hours was possible…and done)! I never had time for the Marathon…“designed by Cadburys…with nuts in mind.” …Yet it was a credible vehicle, and I have friends in France who would extoll its virtues…

But the T45? Perhaps the swan song of the British industry…I can only speak from personal experience, 85 pieces, TL12, and ■■■■■■■ powered, significantly cheaper to operate on similar work than both F10 Volvo, and P112 Scania, (120,000/ 200,000kms pa trunking, 36 month, and 60 month contract period, UK based, own account operation. Met their Guaranteed residual values without penalty, and never exceeded their forecast budget, (unlike both the Swedish products)!. In my opinion perhaps the most under valued, and under developed, (thanks to the gift of Leyland to DAF, by that idiot Channon), range of commercial vehicles to eminate from a UK manufacturer. The range had potential in Europe, (and world wide), but our clog wearing bretherin were quick to stullify any future potential…while peeing the potential value up the wall . Quickly realised by the astute Piggot family, who grabbed themselves yet another bargain buy!

On a few years, and one must consider the E Series ERF. Great to drive, cheap to run. Mine were winners…I disliked some of their Dealers, short on client service…(still the “big” local haulage contractor selling the odd one here and there), but the product was superb. Residuals were strong, operation was economic, but marketing strategy from Sandbach was disfunctional!.. I gave them an order for 100 chassis over 12 months…two weeks later they announce that they were going into Contract Hire/Leasing as they felt that Contract Hire companies were calling the shots!!! We were, and I got a price reduction on the last 50!!!

Now for personal reasons, …(nostalgia)? I bought a few Seddon Stratto`s, but they were distinctly inferior to the ERF product, (more is the pity)!

To summerise Gentlemen, value for money/best for the long, (maximum work over a given period), ERF E series, second the never fully developed Leyland T45,… purely based on personal, (financial) results, and experience!

I shall treat myself to a largish Bollinger, (despite what the Doctors say), for those happy memories… DOES ANYONE DISAGREE??

Cheerio for now,

[senior50]

Always got good service from my E14 350/twin splitter/ Rockwell
Removed passanger seat drop down the bed boxes made a bigger bed base worked well for me for two weeks away ran it for five years great lorry

[chrisarbon]

My vote goes to the Seddon Atkinson 400 series built for OHS. They were spec’d for the long haul.