the maoster:
Millions of workers are wage slaves in this country, they struggle to make ends meet and every major financial outlay needs careful planning, and then you get a group of workers who through their own struggles receive excellent wages and conditions then along comes someone petty like Janos who’s immediate thought isn’t “wow, how do I get myself such a great job?”. Oh no, his first thought is “how do I stop others getting that?”
There in one fell swoop is the main reason most people work for relatively rubbish wages.
You are assuming a lot there. There is not a jealous bone in my body. Am only interested in fairness and equity.
I have nearly always been self-employed, and I think a stint of self-employment would be an eye-opener for a lot on here.
Also, it is obvious a lot on here do not come from large port cities with a history of industrial strikes. When you have seen the damage caused by those marxist pricks in the union, and had to suffer because of their selfish actions, then you soon get wise to this ‘brother’ nonsense.
Do any of you not think it is odd that no Suttons driver is on here defending their job? That may be because of the ridiculously high pay rate some are on. Would get a bit embarrassing.
As for wanting to work there, or any of the other union mafioso bastions, like the docks, Fords etc, I would turn it down flat.
Using Sutton as an example, who would like their work allocated by the ‘lead driver’? A practice that is just jobs for the boys, and the crap for who is not family. Most on here would be happy with that, but some are not cap-doffing halfwits and have a bit of pride.
“Fairness and equity”
Equity between which parties?
Suttons drivers and other drivers? That is a point.
The drivers who service the refinery and work alongside process workers there daily? That is a point too. And one which has been the norm there for ages it seems.
Is it “fair” that the parent refinery company allocated an amount to transport for many years and is now, through outsourcing etc is trying to cut those costs? We can all see that cost cutting can be a valid policy, but Im asking if its “fair” that its the some of the lowest paid in this pyramid who have to carry the cuts? Not exactly a company on their uppers it seems. Are they trimming away everyones pay to prevent redundancies? I think not, but will listen if youve any evidence of this. If the managers are also taking pay cuts then I can see the justice, if not, then Ill draw my own conclusions about “fairness and equity”.
EDIT. Any evidence of any lack of investment in the oil industry anyone? Are oil company shares falling through the floor?
I’m in agreement Franglais that it’s no help overall to cut rates.
However, if Suttons have been doing a job for £2.00 a mile and the customer says I can get it done for £1.75 a mile, what do Suttons do? There’s two options. They can cut costs, which as I’ve said before is a limited option because Volvo aren’t going to cut the costs of a truck, Shell won’t give them fuel any cheaper, so wages it is. Or they walk away and the drivers are working for some on else, either on a TUPE arrangement or a completely different firm.
I’m not arguing that it’s fair, but that’s the reality, and most companies will do anything (wrongly in my opinion), to hold onto work.
As for 8 million pre tax profit, on a turnover of around 175ish million, that’s less than 5%, which is better than the 3-4% a lot of operators work on. However it still isn’t that much. Profit isn’t a dirty word, it’s needed to weather bad years and to invest. And I don’t know how that is split between the different divisions, is transport making 10% and the other divisions under performing, or is transport barely breaking even and other divisions are supporting it?
albion:
I’m in agreement Franglais that it’s no help overall to cut rates.
However, if Suttons have been doing a job for £2.00 a mile and the customer says I can get it done for £1.75 a mile, what do Suttons do? There’s two options. They can cut costs, which as I’ve said before is a limited option because Volvo aren’t going to cut the costs of a truck, Shell won’t give them fuel any cheaper, so wages it is. Or they walk away and the drivers are working for some on else, either on a TUPE arrangement or a completely different firm.
I’m not arguing that it’s fair, but that’s the reality, and most companies will do anything (wrongly in my opinion), to hold onto work.
As for 8 million pre tax profit, on a turnover of around 175ish million, that’s less than 5%, which is better than the 3-4% a lot of operators work on. However it still isn’t that much. Profit isn’t a dirty word, it’s needed to weather bad years and to invest. And I don’t know how that is split between the different divisions, is transport making 10% and the other divisions under performing, or is transport barely breaking even and other divisions are supporting it?
“Fairness” doesnt figure much in the real world its true.
Unfortunately !
I`m sure you realise I was using that in reply to Janos.
I do agree that profit is the motive businesses exist, and provide jobs, and we all advance. But reading the HuffPost piece it seems (I could have misread it) that the drivers involved were actually direct employees a few years ago? Theyve been hived off into a new subsidary company and now theyre having pay and conditions cut?
Bigger profits can be distributed to those who help create it, or taken out of a business. I dont know whats going on here, but Im using my own prejudices to draw my own irrational conclusions. :confused: Im only human.
I read it that way too,. Modern business practices stink and looking at some of the youngsters in their middle management posts in the big companies, having been to university and had their common sense removed and a business degree implanted, they all spout the same short term crap with no ability to see the consequences.
albion:
I read it that way too,. Modern business practices stink and looking at some of the youngsters in their middle management posts in the big companies, having been to university and had their common sense removed and a business degree implanted, they all spout the same short term crap with no ability to see the consequences.
Amen, Sister Albion.
Ive just typed reams more on short termism, politics and gross product compared to wages distribution patterns and etc etc..... But I wont subject anyone to that.
albion:
I read it that way too,. Modern business practices stink and looking at some of the youngsters in their middle management posts in the big companies, having been to university and had their common sense removed and a business degree implanted, they all spout the same short term crap with no ability to see the consequences.
Amen, Sister Albion.
Ive just typed reams more on short termism, politics and gross product compared to wages distribution patterns and etc etc..... But I wont subject anyone to that.
albion:
I read it that way too,. Modern business practices stink and looking at some of the youngsters in their middle management posts in the big companies, having been to university and had their common sense removed and a business degree implanted, they all spout the same short term crap with no ability to see the consequences.
Amen, Sister Albion.
Ive just typed reams more on short termism, politics and gross product compared to wages distribution patterns and etc etc..... But I wont subject anyone to that.
Some posts there with an understanding of the commercial reality of running a business. If more union shop stewards understood that and negotiated for a compromise that was of benefit for both parties, then there would of been less industrial strife and business closures. The post about sniffing out the outrageous profits being raked in by Suttons is so naive, it is almost childlike. As it has always been, it is the politics of envy and malice from the left. It is also based on a private grasping avarice that they could never admit to, but it is so obvious.
If some of these dewy eyed revolutionaries humming the Internationale around their braziers were to become industrial chemists, and had the drive to start their own company selling specialist chemicals, how would they feel having to pay a truck driver more than themselves to cart the stuff around?
Janos:
Some posts there with an understanding of the commercial reality of running a business. If more union shop stewards understood that and negotiated for a compromise that was of benefit for both parties, then there would of been less industrial strife and business closures. The post about sniffing out the outrageous profits being raked in by Suttons is so naive, it is almost childlike. As it has always been, it is the politics of envy and malice from the left. It is also based on a private grasping avarice that they could never admit to, but it is so obvious.
If some of these dewy eyed revolutionaries humming the Internationale around their braziers were to become industrial chemists, and had the drive to start their own company selling specialist chemicals, how would they feel having to pay a truck driver more than themselves to cart the stuff around?
Which particular flavour of “private grasping avarice” are you referring to?
That of the drivers, who wish to retain what they have?
That of the managers who may want to increase their own pay and bonuses by beating down costs?
That of the owners and share-holders ?
Janos:
Some posts there with an understanding of the commercial reality of running a business. If more union shop stewards understood that and negotiated for a compromise that was of benefit for both parties, then there would of been less industrial strife and business closures. The post about sniffing out the outrageous profits being raked in by Suttons is so naive, it is almost childlike. As it has always been, it is the politics of envy and malice from the left. It is also based on a private grasping avarice that they could never admit to, but it is so obvious.
If some of these dewy eyed revolutionaries humming the Internationale around their braziers were to become industrial chemists, and had the drive to start their own company selling specialist chemicals, how would they feel having to pay a truck driver more than themselves to cart the stuff around?
I believe the very nature of a compromise is that it works both ways; from what I’ve read they were given 30 days notice that they could take the new contract or find themselves out of a job. During the action they said they were willing to go back to work if the company would enter into negotiations.
I have a very good idea what pay the drivers are on, I have also been self employed and I still don’t have a problem with them not rolling over and accepting far worse pay and conditions, as a self employed person, I would certainly, at the very least, review the situation if a customer said they were going to pay me far less than had been agreed.
As for having a lead driver giving the best work to the favoured few, this is also known to happen with transport managers/planners who give the favoured drivers the cream work; I suppose those drivers are also cap-doffing halfwits.
Having some of the better wages in the industry being forced down is counter productive for all drivers, including those self employed ones. It is also counter productive for the haulage companies in the long term, as a downward spiral on wages doesn’t necessarily lead to higher profits, but lower rates. As the next company doing a similar job will ask their haulier for a rate cut to compete and so the cycle continues.
Wage stagnation across the leading economies, is also now causing concern for leading bankers and economists, as they feel it is any long term economic recovery. These aren’t those nasty envious Marxists, but those pushing the free market capitalist vision and even they’ve realised that the average worker needs pay rises in real terms to keep the economic dream alive.
Beetlejuice:
They have used managers and supervisors from other contracts to cross picket what, disgusting behaviour!!!
off Facebook tanker page ^
Following a complaint to TN management, your picture was removed.
Please don’t re-post it.
Just goes to show they are embarrassed and ashamed by it in reality eh?
Why should they be if they have the courage of their convictions, and if they were honourable gentlemen convinced they were in the right, they would say ‘‘Bring it on , I have done nothing wrong and I stand by it’’ …but no they go crying to the moderators of a forum. ■■■■ pathetic eh?
Spineless arse wipe scabs…end of !! .
I sincerely hope the mods do not remove this post, if this ■■■■ weasel complains again, and that the Forum is better than that.
Beetlejuice:
They have used managers and supervisors from other contracts to cross picket what, disgusting behaviour!!!
off Facebook tanker page ^
Following a complaint to TN management, your picture was removed.
Please don’t re-post it.
Just goes to show they are embarrassed and ashamed by it in reality eh?
Why should they be if they have the courage of their convictions, and if they were honourable gentlemen convinced they were in the right, they would say ‘‘Bring it on , I have done nothing wrong and I stand by it’’ …but no they go crying to the moderators of a forum. [zb] pathetic eh?
Spineless arse wipe scabs…end of !! .
I sincerely hope the mods do not remove this post, if this [zb] weasel complains again, and that the Forum is better than that.
I’m glad you said it Robroy .Its what a lot of us decent lads were thinking .Not all of us sadly …
After the banker ■■■■■■■ (rhymes with bankers) ■■■■■■ (rhymes with trucked)everything royally we started to hear about deflation for the first time in my lifetime. My initial thought was good! Prices going down for once…but hold up! That means wages going down too…earnings…profits…everything except,perhaps…debt! Which would actually increase in real terms by taking an ever increasing slice of the company/household pie to service! Suddenly the Square Mile barrow boys/treasury mandarins were saying we needed inflation to help reduce debt! And an integral part of the inflation process is increasing wages…over to you Janos!
■■■■ pathetic eh?
