PANORAMA tonight - 50,000 drivers short!

muckles:
I’ve posted these before, but I think they’re worth posting again.

https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201617/cmselect/cmtrans/68/6805.htm
Figure 5 is particularly interesting when the industry says there aren’t enough qualified drivers available.

21.We also found evidence to suggest claims of a driver shortage were over-stated. A recent article suggested that as many as 80,000 drivers aged 25–44 had an LGV licence and DQC but did not work as drivers (possibly maintaining their entitlement to drive in case other career choices did not work out).48 Data from the DVLA show there are more than enough people either licensed or licensed and qualified to drive LGVs but for a number of reasons they choose not to work as drivers

http://www.aricia.ltd.uk/Temp/ThereIsNoShortage120116.pdf

I now disagree with some of my previous conclusions, including that driver numbers have become a national issue. In part, I fell into a trap of believing that what some parties in our industry were saying. I’m now back where I started, believing that our industry needs to stop moaning and put its money where its mouth is.

Exactly…I think the article referred to was one published in Transport Operator.

Last year, the FTA admitted that most of newly-qualified drivers did not stay in the industry.

My opinion: employers need to take a long look at their own companies terms & conditions etc.

If there really was a driver shortage, then one of the big logistics players could quite simply put most of its competitors out of business by offering a more generous package…then going to its competitors’ clients and saying…your current transport provider won’t have any drivers soon, so you better sign up with us if you want your goods moved. And yes, it is going to cost you more, but hey, that’s business.

It was a tactic used by some of the big bus groups to eliminate competition: offer a £2k ‘starting bonus’ paid over and above the normal salary for 6 months. Suddenly the local operator had no one to drive their buses and hence didn’t have a business.

GasGas:

muckles:
I’ve posted these before, but I think they’re worth posting again.

https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201617/cmselect/cmtrans/68/6805.htm
Figure 5 is particularly interesting when the industry says there aren’t enough qualified drivers available.

21.We also found evidence to suggest claims of a driver shortage were over-stated. A recent article suggested that as many as 80,000 drivers aged 25–44 had an LGV licence and DQC but did not work as drivers (possibly maintaining their entitlement to drive in case other career choices did not work out).48 Data from the DVLA show there are more than enough people either licensed or licensed and qualified to drive LGVs but for a number of reasons they choose not to work as drivers

http://www.aricia.ltd.uk/Temp/ThereIsNoShortage120116.pdf

I now disagree with some of my previous conclusions, including that driver numbers have become a national issue. In part, I fell into a trap of believing that what some parties in our industry were saying. I’m now back where I started, believing that our industry needs to stop moaning and put its money where its mouth is.

Exactly…I think the article referred to was one published in Transport Operator.

Last year, the FTA admitted that most of newly-qualified drivers did not stay in the industry.

My opinion: employers need to take a long look at their own companies terms & conditions etc.

If there really was a driver shortage, then one of the big logistics players could quite simply put most of its competitors out of business by offering a more generous package…then going to its competitors’ clients and saying…your current transport provider won’t have any drivers soon, so you better sign up with us if you want your goods moved. And yes, it is going to cost you more, but hey, that’s business.

It was a tactic used by some of the big bus groups to eliminate competition: offer a £2k ‘starting bonus’ paid over and above the normal salary for 6 months. Suddenly the local operator had no one to drive their buses and hence didn’t have a business.

They don’t need to though do they?

Because there isn’t as we all know from our own experience as drivers and as customers.

muckles:

Freight Dog:
I’ve just listened to a morning on BBC breakfast where every item managed to shoe horn feminism into it. I turned it off.

A few weeks ago we got wall to wall coverage of 100 years of women getting the vote, which wasn’t actually true as only a few women, who were in societies elite, actually got the vote in 1918, and what an injustice it was that the nasty men hadn’t let them vote before that,
But almost nothing about the fact that many working class men got the vote for the first time in 1918 and what an injustice that was, especially as many of the men sent to fight WW1 hadn’t been eligible to vote for the government that had sent them.

It really is tiresome. The two items I saw were Stacey Dooley on the breakfast couch. She’s that investigative journalist. I don’t mind her. It wasn’t Stacey Dooley that went down the feminism angle. It was the presenters.

Anyway, both breakfast presenters managed to steer it onto her visiting Honduras and how men are bast erds to Women there. Then started talking about women’s rights across the globe in general. Next was some posho woman from Cambridge uni who narrates a history programme. Again, the women’s angle popped up on that! I can’t recall the details on it as turned it off before I lost my rag ha :laughing:

Freight Dog:

muckles:

Freight Dog:
I’ve just listened to a morning on BBC breakfast where every item managed to shoe horn feminism into it. I turned it off.

A few weeks ago we got wall to wall coverage of 100 years of women getting the vote, which wasn’t actually true as only a few women, who were in societies elite, actually got the vote in 1918, and what an injustice it was that the nasty men hadn’t let them vote before that,
But almost nothing about the fact that many working class men got the vote for the first time in 1918 and what an injustice that was, especially as many of the men sent to fight WW1 hadn’t been eligible to vote for the government that had sent them.

It really is tiresome. The two items I saw were Stacey Dooley on the breakfast couch. She’s that investigative journalist. I don’t mind her. It wasn’t Stacey Dooley that went down the feminism angle. It was the presenters.

Anyway, both breakfast presenters managed to steer it onto her visiting Honduras and how men are bast erds to Women there. Then started talking about women’s rights across the globe in general. Next was some posho woman from Cambridge uni who narrates a history programme. Again, the women’s angle popped up on that! I can’t recall the details on it as turned it off before I lost my rag ha :laughing:

I’m getting fed up as well…I’m not going down well on a couple of more female centric forums I am on.

I can’t be doing with wearing a particular colour frock, going on a march. I’d rather just rock up and get on with the job I do; most women wouldn’t do the job I do. I don’t want to make an issue of it, I don’t care if only 1% of women are truck drivers ( might mean women have more sense…). I just think this current habit of harping on constantly is actually leading to division. Some blokes are idiots, same as some women, but most if not all the blokes I deal with are just people, not a gender.

Freight Dog:

muckles:

Freight Dog:
I’ve just listened to a morning on BBC breakfast where every item managed to shoe horn feminism into it. I turned it off.

A few weeks ago we got wall to wall coverage of 100 years of women getting the vote, which wasn’t actually true as only a few women, who were in societies elite, actually got the vote in 1918, and what an injustice it was that the nasty men hadn’t let them vote before that,
But almost nothing about the fact that many working class men got the vote for the first time in 1918 and what an injustice that was, especially as many of the men sent to fight WW1 hadn’t been eligible to vote for the government that had sent them.

It really is tiresome. The two items I saw were Stacey Dooley on the breakfast couch. She’s that investigative journalist. I don’t mind her. It wasn’t Stacey Dooley that went down the feminism angle. It was the presenters.

Yep the worst of it seems to be from the presenters trying to steer the conversation towards their agenda, quite often those interviewed have far more reasonable opinions.

I saw Victoria Derbyshire interview some of the stars of the Grime music scene, (yep new one on me as well :smiley: ) after they’d been ignored by the Brit awards.

She was trying to make it out as a racist thing, the Grime musicians kept saying “it wasn’t racist it was just the music had grown up away from the mainstream record companies and the problem was those running the Brits had got out of touch with what was coming from the streets of Britain.”

But it didn’t matter how many times they said this, she kept trying to push the racist agenda. I had a lot of respect at the way the Grime musicians dealt with her, despite them being quite young and not used to the media. Still don’t know if I can get into the music though. :laughing:

Freight Dog:
Next was some posho woman from Cambridge uni who narrates a history programme. Again, the women’s angle popped up on that! I can’t recall the details on it as turned it off before I lost my rag ha :laughing:

Was it Professor Alice Roberts, she could be my ideal woman, :open_mouth: :smiley:
to switch around an old quote.

An osteoarchaeologist is the best wife a man can have. The older he gets the more interested she is in him.

:laughing:

muckles:

Freight Dog:

muckles:

Freight Dog:
I’ve just listened to a morning on BBC breakfast where every item managed to shoe horn feminism into it. I turned it off.

A few weeks ago we got wall to wall coverage of 100 years of women getting the vote, which wasn’t actually true as only a few women, who were in societies elite, actually got the vote in 1918, and what an injustice it was that the nasty men hadn’t let them vote before that,
But almost nothing about the fact that many working class men got the vote for the first time in 1918 and what an injustice that was, especially as many of the men sent to fight WW1 hadn’t been eligible to vote for the government that had sent them.

It really is tiresome. The two items I saw were Stacey Dooley on the breakfast couch. She’s that investigative journalist. I don’t mind her. It wasn’t Stacey Dooley that went down the feminism angle. It was the presenters.

Yep the worst of it seems to be from the presenters trying to steer the conversation towards their agenda, quite often those interviewed have far more reasonable opinions.

I saw Victoria Derbyshire interview some of the stars of the Grime music scene, (yep new one on me as well :smiley: ) after they’d been ignored by the Brit awards.

She was trying to make it out as a racist thing, the Grime musicians kept saying “it wasn’t racist it was just the music had grown up away from the mainstream record companies and the problem was those running the Brits had got out of touch with what was coming from the streets of Britain.”

But it didn’t matter how many times they said this, she kept trying to push the racist agenda. I had a lot of respect at the way the Grime musicians dealt with her, despite them being quite young and not used to the media. Still don’t know if I can get into the music though. :laughing:

Freight Dog:
Next was some posho woman from Cambridge uni who narrates a history programme. Again, the women’s angle popped up on that! I can’t recall the details on it as turned it off before I lost my rag ha :laughing:

Was it Professor Alice Roberts, she could be my ideal woman, :open_mouth: :smiley:
to switch around an old quote.

An osteoarchaeologist is the best wife a man can have. The older he gets the more interested she is in him.

:laughing:

Professor Alice Roberts is gorgeous!

albion:

Freight Dog:
It really is tiresome. The two items I saw were Stacey Dooley on the breakfast couch. She’s that investigative journalist. I don’t mind her. It wasn’t Stacey Dooley that went down the feminism angle. It was the presenters.

Anyway, both breakfast presenters managed to steer it onto her visiting Honduras and how men are bast erds to Women there. Then started talking about women’s rights across the globe in general.

I’m getting fed up as well…I’m not going down well on a couple of more female centric forums I am on.

What do you mean you and other women have time to go onto forums, shouldn’t you be in the kitchen getting dinner ready? :laughing:

albion:
I can’t be doing with wearing a particular colour frock, going on a march. I’d rather just rock up and get on with the job I do; most women wouldn’t do the job I do. I don’t want to make an issue of it, I don’t care if only 1% of women are truck drivers

I personally reckon the women that have achieved the most for equality are the one that have got in their and proved they’re as good as or better than the men they’re working with.
Women who are asking for special treatment and playing the victim card, just enforce the stereotype that woman are less capable and are weak. Which anybody who saw my 75 year old mother battle to get horses fed last week on the livery yard she owns and runs, will know is definitely not true. :smiley:

TiredAndEmotional:
Professor Alice Roberts is gorgeous!

Yep! :smiley:

But we appear to have gone of thread so, sorry Mods. :blush:

The industry is talking [zb] but they’ll keep playing the media and trying silly gimmicks, instead of actually doing something positive to retain existing drivers and encrourage new one to enter the industry. :imp:

muckles:
I’ve posted these before, but I think they’re worth posting again.

https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201617/cmselect/cmtrans/68/6805.htm
Figure 5 is particularly interesting when the industry says there aren’t enough qualified drivers available.

21.We also found evidence to suggest claims of a driver shortage were over-stated. A recent article suggested that as many as 80,000 drivers aged 25–44 had an LGV licence and DQC but did not work as drivers (possibly maintaining their entitlement to drive in case other career choices did not work out).48 Data from the DVLA show there are more than enough people either licensed or licensed and qualified to drive LGVs but for a number of reasons they choose not to work as drivers

http://www.aricia.ltd.uk/Temp/ThereIsNoShortage120116.pdf

I now disagree with some of my previous conclusions, including that driver numbers have become a national issue. In part, I fell into a trap of believing that what some parties in our industry were saying. I’m now back where I started, believing that our industry needs to stop moaning and put its money where its mouth is.

Those excepts have definitely been posted before but they bear repeating. They are damning indeed for those within the industry (such as the RHA) who are of the opinion that the taxpayer should subsidise driver training, which by dint of supply and demand will then allow haulage firms to keep wages down and drivers in their place. Those that promote such a scenario should be ashamed, although it’s perhaps to be expected.

The industry really is its own worst enemy at times, and when its trade body is peddling untruths such as those relating to the driver ‘shortage’, that’s not likely to change any time soon.

I had a press release from a PR woman last night, asking if I would be prepared to help in some promotion of truk driving for women.

This is what she wrote to me

I’m reaching out to you as I sent over a press release for one of my clients about their #DrivingForChange campaign this morning, and I’d love to have a quick chat about potentially getting their editorial featured.

There’s been a lot in the news about equality for women, but we can’t help but feel that these campaigns are aimed mainly at women in showbiz, or with roles that put them ‘in the spotlight’. What we want to bring focus to is the average working woman. The women who are fighting for jobs in male-dominated industry, and failing because of gender stereotyping.

If you think that you could help us spread the word about this campaign, I’d love to discuss it with you. I have attached below the press release for the #DrivingForChange campaign, which is an extension of the M6toll’s HerGV campaign to encourage more women into haulage driving roles.
If you think that there’s a more pertinent member of your team or person I could contact about this, I’d appreciate if you could either pass this message on, or let me know so I can contact them directly.

In the meantime, have a wonderful day!

And this is my reply:

Quite honestly, the reason there a so few women driving trucks is because it is such a poor job.
Most women have more sense than to choose a career where long hours and great responsibility are combined with an hourly rate which is little more than the minimum wage, and other conditions such as roadside facilities are so poor. Why would any woman want to drive a truck when the shared overnight bathroom facilities are usually to be found behind the hedge of the lay-by where she has to park?

At a conference I attended last year, someone from the FTA let slip that younger people who had recently acquired LGV licences were leaving the industry in greater proportions than any other demographic. One reason for this might be that Argos pay their counter staff a higher rate than they pay their truck drivers.
Sadly, until the industry realises that they need a root and branch reform of drivers terms and conditions, including a drastic increase in the basic hourly rate, then they are going to be scratching around for staff. Even the supply of drunken Poles with revoked licences is drying up.
Sorry not to be more positive, but there’s a reason why driving jobs are difficult to fill.
In my opinion, we need a return to Trades Councils, which were introduced in the early years of the last century by that well-known lefty Winston Churchill. This is how he explained the need for them in 1909:
“It is a serious national evil that any class of His Majesty’s subjects should receive less than a living wage in return for their utmost exertions. It was formerly supposed that the working of the laws of supply and demand would naturally regulate or eliminate that evil. The first clear division which we make on the question to-day is between healthy and unhealthy conditions of bargaining. That is the first broad division which we make in the general statement that the laws of supply and demand will ultimately produce a fair price. Where in the great staple trades in the country you have a powerful organisation on both sides, where you have responsible leaders able to bind their constituents to their decision, where that organisation is conjoint with an automatic scale of wages or arrangements for avoiding a deadlock by means of arbitration, there you have a healthy bargaining which increases the competitive power of the industry, enforces a progressive standard of life and the productive scale, and continually weaves capital and labour more closely together. But where you have what we call sweated trades, you have no organisation, no parity of bargaining, the good employer is undercut by the bad, and the bad employer is undercut by the worst; the worker, whose whole livelihood depends upon the industry, is undersold by the worker who only takes the trade up as a second string, his feebleness and ignorance generally renders the worker an easy prey to the tyranny; of the masters and middle-men, only a step higher up the ladder than the worker, and held in the same relentless grip of forces—where those conditions prevail you have not a condition of progress, but a condition of progressive degeneration.”
We now have ‘progressive degeneration’ in the transport industry.
Do feel free to pass this information on to anyone you feel might benefit from it.
Best wishes

I like…

Stacey dooley. But for completely different reasons to this discussion I expect.

ROG:
If that were the case then newbies would be snapped up for full time well paid permanent jobs the minute they passed

Well they are being snapped up for full time jobs. My lad passed his test and within a week was working for a local company on pallet network class 2. As soon as a vacancy for tramping came up they gave it him straight away. He got fed up around Xmas and phoned up about another job and even though he’d only been driving lorries less than 8 months at that point they offered him it at the interview.

Regarding agency work, so far this year the post Christmas January to March lull hasn’t happened and we’re busy to the point I’m struggling to get the 10 days holiday I still have to take by the end of March and the agency have said they’ll carry over unused holiday to next year even though they normally don’t. Was supposed to be on holiday all this week and ended up bailing them out last night. Ignored the phone this afternoon when it rang though. :wink:

Riho:
The cost of living in most EE countries is close to that of the UK so again no sane person would work for 800 euros and neither would they work for minimum wage here in the UK if they would see that other companies pay considerably more. This is utter nonsense and should once and for all be stopped from spreading (living in delusion about something and blaming some third party is never good in the long-term).

Its not utter nonsense. In Romania doctors have recently been given a substantial payrise, think double, and their take home pay is now just £300 a month more than someone in the UK working a 40hr week in a minimum wage job. Even the Romanian President is only on €4000 a month.

romania-insider.com/romania … ster-says/

muckles:

albion:
What do you mean you and other women have time to go onto forums, shouldn’t you be in the kitchen getting dinner ready? :laughing:

[
Women who are asking for special treatment and playing the victim card, just enforce the stereotype that woman are less capable and are weak. Which anybody who saw my 75 year old mother battle to get horses fed last week on the livery yard she owns and runs, will know is definitely not true. :smiley:

I can type and peel the spuds at the same time, muckles, don’t panic :smiley:

And yes, I totally agree, I can’t abide playing the victim card for that reason. I hope when I’m 75 I’m like your mum!

Makes me laugh,one minute the rha are saying we are 50,000 drivers short,then others are going on about driverless lorries,i know they say drivers will still be needed in case something goes wrong but what if they are not needed,employers won’t hesitate to lay drivers off,thousands could lose their jobs if that happened (thats providing they bring in driverless lorries quickly)

GasGas:
I had a press release from a PR woman last night, asking if I would be prepared to help in some promotion of truk driving for women.

This is what she wrote to me

I’m reaching out to you as I sent over a press release for one of my clients

I’d have read as far as the ‘reaching out’ bit and then deleted it forthwith. ‘Reaching out’ FFS. They can take their American cliches and stick then up their rectal passages, along with their touching bases, blue sky thinking and strategic decisions.

Olog Hai:

GasGas:
I had a press release from a PR woman last night, asking if I would be prepared to help in some promotion of truk driving for women.

This is what she wrote to me

I’m reaching out to you as I sent over a press release for one of my clients

I’d have read as far as the ‘reaching out’ bit and then deleted it forthwith. ‘Reaching out’ FFS. They can take their American cliches and stick then up their rectal passages, along with their touching bases, blue sky thinking and strategic decisions.

Should you use reach out in a business meeting or email?

If you are unsure ask yourself the following:

Am I a member of the Four Tops?

If yes, carry on.

If no, just stop it right now. :angry:

albion:

Olog Hai:

GasGas:
I had a press release from a PR woman last night, asking if I would be prepared to help in some promotion of truk driving for women.

This is what she wrote to me

I’m reaching out to you as I sent over a press release for one of my clients

I’d have read as far as the ‘reaching out’ bit and then deleted it forthwith. ‘Reaching out’ FFS. They can take their American cliches and stick then up their rectal passages, along with their touching bases, blue sky thinking and strategic decisions.

Should you use reach out in a business meeting or email?

If you are unsure ask yourself the following:

Am I a member of the Four Tops?

If yes, carry on.

If no, just stop it right now. :angry:

:laughing: I’ve been to those business meetings where we did a bit of brain storming and blue sky thinking and in the end all ended up singing off the same hymn sheet, which was nice :smiley: but then I was working for a bloke called Miles, so I shouldn’t have been surprised. :laughing:

albion:
Should you use reach out in a business meeting or email?

If you are unsure ask yourself the following:

Am I a member of the Four Tops?

If yes, carry on.

If no, just stop it right now. :angry:

That would make you a Spice Girl, but I’m not going to say which one. :smiley: :wink:

Wiretwister:

albion:
Should you use reach out in a business meeting or email?

If you are unsure ask yourself the following:

Am I a member of the Four Tops?

If yes, carry on.

If no, just stop it right now. :angry:

That would make you a Spice Girl, but I’m not going to say which one. :smiley: :wink:

I doubt Albion is Posh spice and having quoted The Four Tops, probably not Baby spice or Sporty spice. I’ve got it down to Scary or Ginger and I’m hoping it’s Ginger Spice! :smiley: