There is and for some time has been a shortage of good competent conscientious drivers, and for a similar amount of time a shortage of employers deserving of that quality of driver.
That unhappy equilibrium is coming to an end in quite short order, as a massive number of drivers are going to retire in waves over the next 10/15 years and even places like mine are finding the quality of applicant isn’t up to scratch, the industry dumbing the job down to lowest level possible isn’t helping but we’ll leave the industry to work that out for themselves because they’ve been ignoring the looming elephant long enough and they’re the ones on the big bucks who profess to have all the answers.
Anyway, what the hell is this holy grail of job paying £14 an hour for people to play tunes or sleep having just trunked up a motorway then playing some electronic music or games before the heady excitement of trunking back, woopee , A it sounds utterly bloody boring and B that isn’t a professional drivers wage, its about £4/6 an hour short at current rates taken as an average hourly pay across the board.
Grandpa:
It’s not just that the driver shortage is on google. As I said, google ‘British HGV shortage.’ It’s not just the press, it’s the Haulier Association, Truck and Driver mag’, the government … It’s common knowledge. It’s not just a shortage; the whole industry is falling apart.
You remind me of the people who only months before the 2008 economic crash said it would never happen, when the whole world and its dog could see it coming. Amazing optimism.
An industry which the government’s stated aim is to minimise the activities of.
The reason why it’s going out of business has more to do with unviable fuel costs as a proportion of over heads and depreciation costs in large part caused by the complication of trying to clean up diesel emissions.
Which then decides that the solution to that is to rig the labour market in favour of paying for the resulting costs with low wages and adding to depreciation costs with the false economy of more complication to appeal to even more mediocre car ‘drivers’ let alone truck drivers.
In addition to minimising freight journeys/distances and putting drivers to work on ‘other duties’ with anything decent left reserved for a chosen elite.
Juddian:
There is and for some time has been a shortage of good competent conscientious drivers, and for a similar amount of time a shortage of employers deserving of that quality of driver.
That unhappy equilibrium is coming to an end in quite short order, as a massive number of drivers are going to retire in waves over the next 10/15 years and even places like mine are finding the quality of applicant isn’t up to scratch, the industry dumbing the job down to lowest level possible isn’t helping but we’ll leave the industry to work that out for themselves because they’ve been ignoring the looming elephant long enough and they’re the ones on the big bucks who profess to have all the answers.
Yeah yeah yeah… yawn People have been droning on and on about this impending mass driver exodus for the past 20 years and it still hasn’t happened. You’ll still be on about it in the year 2041 predicting “any day now” and the wheels will still be turning and goods getting where they need to be, with drivers accepting whatever peanut scraps are offered to them. Twas ever thus. It’s a bit like all the end-of-the-world predictions for the haualge industry prior to the DCPC arriving. Lots of noise and threats about hanging up keys but the reality was that 99.9% of drivers paid their monies and carried on.
As “grandpa” continues to fail to answer my question why rates are slowly decreasing year on year when there’s an alleged shortage of 76,000 drivers, maybe you can enlighten me why the basic economics of supply and demand doesn’t apply to the driving industry .
Juddian:
Anyway, what the hell is this holy grail of job paying £14 an hour for people to play tunes or sleep having just trunked up a motorway then playing some electronic music or games before the heady excitement of trunking back, woopee , A it sounds utterly bloody boring and B that isn’t a professional drivers wage, its about £4/6 an hour short at current rates taken as an average hourly pay across the board.
No-one said it was the holy grail, did they? It was used as a comparison to grandpa’s rant about how scanning parcels in a warehouse for £10.15 was a more attractive proposition. £14/hr is about the going rate for a night agency bum on a seat in this area. It’s a job, it pays the bills, it’s ■■■■-easy with zero effort and the hardest part is setting the cruise control button to ‘on’.
“[£14 an hour] its about £4/6 an hour short at current rates taken as an average hourly pay across the board.” £18-20/hr average for doing general? LMAO. Dream on buddy. Try half that and you’ll be somewhere near.
Juddian:
There is and for some time has been a shortage of good competent conscientious drivers, and for a similar amount of time a shortage of employers deserving of that quality of driver.
That unhappy equilibrium is coming to an end in quite short order, as a massive number of drivers are going to retire in waves over the next 10/15 years and even places like mine are finding the quality of applicant isn’t up to scratch, the industry dumbing the job down to lowest level possible isn’t helping but we’ll leave the industry to work that out for themselves because they’ve been ignoring the looming elephant long enough and they’re the ones on the big bucks who profess to have all the answers.
Anyway, what the hell is this holy grail of job paying £14 an hour for people to play tunes or sleep having just trunked up a motorway then playing some electronic music or games before the heady excitement of trunking back, woopee , A it sounds utterly bloody boring and B that isn’t a professional drivers wage, its about £4/6 an hour short at current rates taken as an average hourly pay across the board.
The industry wanted cheap, the industry got cheap. Now they’re complaining they can’t get drivers, conscientious or any other variety. Well what a surprise. Trunking is as boring for some as multi-drop is exciting to others. As the work became more labour intensive and regulated, the drivers dropping out increased. Personally and tongue in cheek, I chose to drive a truck with a trailer, not a pump truck with a handle.
‘As “grandpa” continues to fail to answer my question why rates are slowly decreasing year on year when there’s an alleged shortage of 76,000 drivers, maybe you can enlighten me why the basic economics of supply and demand doesn’t apply to the driving industry.’
That was the question then. The rates are not decreasing, they’re stagnant. There was no reason to put up the rates when Eastern Europeans flooded in to do the job at what we considered a pittance. Higher rates means less profit and the British industry can’t compete with the cheap trucks flooding in from Eastern Europe. In the desire to compete for cheap, the transport industry eventually cut its own throat.
Grandpa:
The rates are not decreasing, they’re stagnant.
You haven’t got a clue. Over a decade ago I knew of drivers from Scotland and the north of England who were paid by local “golden triangle” agencies to come down and work for blue chip companies around Daventry and Crick for up to £13/hr with their accommodation and travelling costs paid for on top. Today you’re telling me that the rates have tanked to £11/hr, so how are they stagnant? Seems to be another one of your maths fails.
Even if the nominal rates were the same, in real terms the rates have decreased significantly because of inflation and endless QE. Housing rent is up, council tax is up, food is up significantly when you realise that not only has the price per unit increased but the quantity has been reduced by 20%, vehicle purchase and running costs are up, utilities are up. Everything is up. Michael Saylor of MicroStrategy (one of the biggest AUM companies in the US, worth billions) has done many talks about the REAL inflation and currency debasement, saying that your fiat is losing at least 15% per year in purchasing power (US) just from inflation and QE so for simplicity sake, if you were on a £10/hr a year ago, you’d need to be on £11.50/hr now just to retain your same purchasing power after inflation and QE. How many companies/agencies do you know that give a 15% rate increase every year?
I’d bet that most drivers would consider a nominal rate rise from £12 to £13/hr as a decent rise, but in real terms it’s actually a decrease in your purchasing power.
Grandpa:
The rates are not decreasing, they’re stagnant.
You haven’t got a clue. Over a decade ago I knew of drivers from Scotland and the north of England who were paid by local “golden triangle” agencies to come down and work for blue chip companies around Daventry and Crick for up to £13/hr with their accommodation and travelling costs paid for on top. Today you’re telling me that the rates have tanked to £11/hr, so how are they stagnant? Seems to be another one of your maths fails.
Even if the nominal rates were the same, in real terms the rates have decreased significantly because of inflation and endless QE. Housing rent is up, council tax is up, food is up significantly when you realise that not only has the price per unit increased but the quantity has been reduced by 20%, vehicle purchase and running costs are up, utilities are up. Everything is up. Michael Saylor of MicroStrategy (one of the biggest AUM companies in the US, worth billions) has done many talks about the REAL inflation and currency debasement, saying that your fiat is losing at least 15% per year in purchasing power (US) just from inflation and QE so for simplicity sake, if you were on a £10/hr a year ago, you’d need to be on £11.50/hr now just to retain your same purchasing power after inflation and QE. How many companies/agencies do you know that give a 15% rate increase every year?
I’d bet that most drivers would consider a nominal rate rise from £12 to £13/hr as a decent rise, but in real terms it’s actually a decrease in your purchasing power.
Michael Saylor is not everyone’s idea of a reliable source. His statements on inflation don’t stand up to scrutiny.
Grandpa:
It’s not just that the driver shortage is on google. As I said, google ‘British HGV shortage.’ It’s not just the press, it’s the Haulier Association, Truck and Driver mag’, the government … It’s common knowledge. It’s not just a shortage; the whole industry is falling apart.
Grandpa:
It’s not just that the driver shortage is on google. As I said, google ‘British HGV shortage.’ It’s not just the press, it’s the Haulier Association, Truck and Driver mag’, the government … It’s common knowledge. It’s not just a shortage; the whole industry is falling apart.
So did three-quarters of UK transport companies go out of business by July 2020? Or was the article just a complete and total load of ■■■■■■■■?
Three quarters did not go out of business, but many haulage firms are now collapsing. Again, google ‘haulage companies going bust’ and find what’s happening from various sources. It’s not google that’s telling you, it’s the government, the Haulage Association, the various industry magazines … Go on, do some basic research yourself and take off the rose coloured glasses.
I have to say, the general knowledge here is well below standard. Many don’t even know there is a shortage, didn’t see the industry flooded with foreign labour, the Eastern European companies flooding in, the stagnant wages, the bankruptcies … It reminds me of the time the government scrapped the unemployment rates and replaced them with the term ‘jobseekers.’ All of a sudden there were no unemployed and it was a fallacy, but lots of people looking for work!
The difference between now and then is that previously as people retired they were replaced with a new generation and that’s no longer happening, hence the shortage. The transport industry now has an aging workforce where being run into the ground is a normal part of the daily working life. Those of us already in our 60s are not suited to the physical labour and stress that has now become now part of the job with employers squeezing every last drop out of a regulated 9 hours daily driving time.
The drivers are there, but they’re not prepared to do it anymore. It’s not a new problem and the Transport Operator website gives their reasons why, with an interesting comments section.
In fact, these statements are mutually exclusive. Any commodity, including labour, increases in value if the demand for it increases while the supply remains static, or the demand for it remains static while the supply decreases. This is the most basic rule of economics. Statement (1) is true. But it is only true because statement (2) is false. There is an over-supply of drivers, not a shortage.
In fact, these statements are mutually exclusive. Any commodity, including labour, increases in value if the demand for it increases while the supply remains static, or the demand for it remains static while the supply decreases. This is the most basic rule of economics. Statement (1) is true. But it is only true because statement (2) is false. There is an over-supply of drivers, not a shortage.
That’s true in a way Harry, there is a surplus of drivers, but a shortage of those willing to do the job, which means there’s a shortage of drivers. The demand is there, the supply isn’t.
When I go to the supermarket to buy an item and find the price has gone by 30% in one week I usually choose not to buy. If enough people do that the company has two options. 1. It can lower the price, or 2. It loses customers, even though in both instances the demand is still there. Both options involve a loss of profit.
The same analogy is happening in the transport industry. You can lower the wage and conditions to such an extent that no one wants to do it anymore and it becomes a viable option only for Eastern European companies and the British general haulage sector starts to go bust, because it can’t or won’t cater to demand. That’s what’s happening now.
Reading the posts I am mighty surprised you can’t find better paid work in the area, I live 30 miles away from rugby and going rate for nights is £13-15 PAYE.
Agencies are now panicking due to big companies not using Ltd drivers and with alot of EE drivers not going over to paye they are now putting the rates up.
Blue chip companies in your area pay good rates so cannot understand why you are coming out with all this bull. Go to crick or magna or go to gefco at Coventry or NFT the choice is endless.
I do think you just trolling for attention. If you want decent work do what the rest of us do by LOOKING FOR IT!!!
Grandpa:
As the 2008 economic storm clouds approached and the East Europeans began to flood in you’d have to be blind not to see what was coming and along with many others I reverted back to my educational skills and emigrated.
You emigrated…
Which is exactly what you criticize about those who came here.
Exactly!! So you did the same in another country, took a job for less pay than an indigenous person. Then come back here upon retirement, when your health will be getting worse to use the NHS,and claim your pension,…
Grandpa:
As the 2008 economic storm clouds approached and the East Europeans began to flood in you’d have to be blind not to see what was coming and along with many others I reverted back to my educational skills and emigrated.
You emigrated…
Which is exactly what you criticize about those who came here.
Exactly!! So you did the same in another country, took a job for less pay than an indigenous person. Then come back here upon retirement, when your health will be getting worse to use the NHS,and claim your pension,…
Don’t bother attacking the poster. I took a job that an indigenous person couldn’t do and the pay was fine, thanks. I missed the 2008 recession and the food banks … And of course I came back for my pension and NHS. After paying in for decades, why wouldn’t I? The logistics problem doesn’t concern me much now, I retire in a couple of weeks, but I mention it because it’s a big future problem looming. There is work and I’ve never said there isn’t, but it’s not work that people can do in their 60s and those younger are keeping away from it. If you think everything is fine, I’m OK with that.
elsa Lad:
Reading the posts I am mighty surprised you can’t find better paid work in the area, I live 30 miles away from rugby and going rate for nights is £13-15 PAYE.
Agencies are now panicking due to big companies not using Ltd drivers and with alot of EE drivers not going over to paye they are now putting the rates up.
Blue chip companies in your area pay good rates so cannot understand why you are coming out with all this bull. Go to crick or magna or go to gefco at Coventry or NFT the choice is endless.
I do think you just trolling for attention. If you want decent work do what the rest of us do by LOOKING FOR IT!!!
I live ten minutes from Magna Park and Crick. I can assure you the blue-chip companies are not looking for drivers. There’s no end of poorly paid bottom end work in the general haulage sector though. Trolling is people who don’t even know there’s a huge shortage of HGV drivers and can’t understand why.
DCPCFML:
Asda down there seem to be a bit behind the times though : ASDA | Careers
Not sure why so low. By comparison Asda pay, £13.32 days, £14.43 nights at Bedford, £15.48 nights at Bristol, £14.64 afternoons at Erith.
Idk where you see that. I see :
Shift Pattern
Days
Pay Rate
£11.92 per hour
…
You’ll be responsible for …Helping with loading and unloading your vehicle and any other work that needs carrying out – including cleaning your vehicle and trailer.
aka laboring exactly as op said
and then
Delivering on time, but always safely, making sure our reputation for excellence includes driving!
aka stress, stress, stress but hey if you get caught - it;s on you 'cause we told you: drive safely!
<£12 per hour so much for key/essential workers I guess I have a warehouse round the corner where they pay £10 p.h. up to £15 p.h. after the 8th hour worked each shift. Not that I’m going there but I can see the point.
, A it sounds utterly bloody boring and B that isn’t a professional drivers wage, its about £4/6 an hour short at current rates taken as an average hourly pay across the board.
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