My Trucking Days Are Over!

Grandpa:
The tens of thousands shortage didn’t give up driving for one year and came back the next, there’s been a shortage for years. £10.15 is the going agency night rate for what’s termed a ‘warehouse operative’ in one of the companies in this area. You don’t make a lot, as although it’s advertised as 12 hour shifts, they’re usually eight and sometimes as low as six and you get paid for the hours you work, not a minimum of eight. The guy I know who works there takes home around £320pw, with short hours and no stress. OK, it’s not a wage to shout about, but on the other hand driving HGVs for an extra £50pw? Only if you’re desperate.

What was I expected to say? That it’s a fantastic career, that everyone’s happy and there’s no shortage of drivers and those that left can’t wait to get back? It’s a dying low paid stressful industry and it’s not going to get better. I don’t think you’re going to get many people who left and couldn’t wait to get back because they love it so much.
OK, perhaps I’m ‘Old Skool’ and miss my crash boxes and twin splits and actual driving as a skill instead of it resembling a labouring job … But recent changes also made me laugh as one company promised no handball as they’d give me a pump truck! Another was a minimum wage for nights, described as a ‘going rate’ … I’ve lost count of the adverts that never resembled what was promised. One wonders why there’s such a shortage with all these wonderful paying jobs around? :slight_smile:

The midlands ‘golden triangle’ has long gone, replaced by parcel companies and Eddie! When it gets to that stage it’s time to get out and that’s what’s happening and it’s not just me.

OK. You’re definitely Carryfast under a different handle, or his brother.

To loop back to one of your earlier posts : “There will always be those who support the gig-economy and what the general haulage sector has become and they will attack the poster and try to make excuses.”. Firstly, I don’t know where you got this from as it wasn’t from any of my posts. Disagreeing with someone is not attacking them so let’s clear that up.

Secondly, I don’t support the gig-economy and nor am I making excuses. In fact I said in another thread just recently about how the rates have decreased both in nominal and real terms. I could list at least 2 agencies in my area that were paying more for Sundays on PAYE (not umbrella) a decade ago than what you can get now on PAYE today. This is clear evidence that the alleged driver shortage is a load of ■■■■■■■■. It’s basic economics: If the demand exceeds the supply then the price for the product/service increases. If the supply exceeds the demand then the price for the product/service remains the same or often decreases. Companies and agencies are sourcing enough bums on seats at the rates offered to fulfil their needs. If they weren’t able to then the rates would increase :bulb: .

Even if your quoted ceiling of £11/hr for the area was true (which it isn’t, as the Indeed website proves) I would still choose to drive a truck over working in a warehouse scanning parcels for £10.15/hr. The same applies to oft quoted argument about stacking shelves in Aldi. If you reckon you’ll be happier scanning parcels then on you go, no-one is stopping you. Personally I’m of the opinion that while it’s clear the pay and conditions for the HGV driving industry are decreasing in both nominal and real terms, there isn’t any other job with equivalent or better pay that a) I’d be content doing long-term, b) that I’m qualified to do (academically or otherwise) or c) that I have sufficient experience at doing to be considered for the role. Pretty much everything over a tenner an hour these days either requires qualifications in that industry or previous on-the-job experience.

If you want to list me some roles that pay the industry average (agency) of £12-15/hr for sitting on my arse most of each shift and not breaking a sweat, a low barrier to entry qualification wise and maybe also the opportunity to get paid for sleeping for a few hours during each shift, then I’m all ears :arrow_right:

I’ve already said I’m not ‘carryfast.’ That’s not a disagreement, it’s your false assumption. I’m not here to argue, there IS a shortage of drivers from whatever source you want to name, whether that’s from the haulage companies themselves or the government. If it was simply a case of supply and demand, the rates would have increased to attract drivers so there isn’t a shortage of work, there’s a shortage of drivers to do cp work with cp salaries. Whether someone chooses to do that work is an individual choice, obviously tens of thousands aren’t.

There isn’t much left in Rugby, it’s a ghost town as I suspect is common everywhere now.

If you’re not qualified to do anything else, or have no other skills, HGV driving it is then. If HGV driving involved sitting ‘on your arse’ and earning ‘£12/15/ph’ common sense says there wouldn’t be a shortage of people willing to do it. If that’s the job you have stick with it, because it’s not the norm and this drivers post is closer to reality. If you chase after the jobs on ‘Indeed’ you’re going to get some unpleasant surprises.

Grandpa:
If you chase after the jobs on ‘Indeed’ you’re going to get some unpleasant surprises.
Time to seriously re-evaluate my life - THE UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUM (INTERACTIVE) - Trucknet UK

The decent paying and decent jobs don’t advertise on Indeed because they don’t need to advertise as they have a long list of people wanting to work for them and can get drivers just by word of mouth.

Grandpa:
I’m not here to argue, there IS a shortage of drivers from whatever source you want to name, whether that’s from the haulage companies themselves or the government. If it was simply a case of supply and demand, the rates would have increased to attract drivers so there isn’t a shortage of work, there’s a shortage of drivers to do cp work with cp salaries.

What on earth… ? Do you even read what you write? There is a shortage of drivers because if it was supply and demand the rates would have increased to attract drivers■■? Just read that back to yourself. The 2 statements contradict each other. :unamused:

If the rates haven’t increased or they’ve gone down, then that tells you :arrow_right: [drumroll please] THERE IS NO DRIVER SHORTAGE !!! Are you seriously this stupid and incapable of doing the math?

April 2020 : Everyone is going mental buying bog roll and hand sanitiser. Shelves are completely empty within hours across the entire country. RDCs have no stock to replenish and it’ll be 2 weeks before they get some more, but it will only be 2 artic loads for the entire country as the lead times are way out. Do we as Tesco jack the prices up 1000% and make bank, confident that all will sell at that price, or do we drop the prices by 10% because we’re feeling kind and charitable today? :unamused: Obviously they will jack the prices up because the demand is off the scale and the supply is limited.

Now apply the same scenario to Tesco Daventry who need 50 extra drivers for Monday night. Agency puts ad out advertising a tenner an hour. 30 drivers say they’re available and can do it. Agency rings Tesco tells them they can only do them 30 but could probably get you the full 50 if we can put up the rate from 12 to 13 quid an hour. OK, we’ll have to manage with 30 this week, but we’ll have a think about it and let you know. The following Monday, Tesco needs another 50 drivers and tells the agency we’ll pay 13 quid. Agency advertises for 11 quid and gets 50 drivers booked to do the work.

That’s it. Supply and demand. You’re not going to see agencies or companies offering more than they need to in order to get bums on seats. They are in business to make money, not be a charity for drivers offering £5/hr more than they need to because they feel sorry for you. If the market average for your area is £11/hr then that’s what you’re stuck with because there is enough supply willing to accept that rate. If the supply goes down eg. drivers unwilling to work for the rates on offer, then the rates will go up. Equally, if there is an over-supply of drivers in the area then the rates will decrease to £10.75, £10.50/hr until an equilibrium is reached.

investopedia.com/terms/e/equilibrium.asp

Conor:

Grandpa:
If you chase after the jobs on ‘Indeed’ you’re going to get some unpleasant surprises.
Time to seriously re-evaluate my life - THE UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUM (INTERACTIVE) - Trucknet UK

The decent paying and decent jobs don’t advertise on Indeed because they don’t need to advertise as they have a long list of people wanting to work for them and can get drivers just by word of mouth.

Of definitely, there’s no shortage of drivers in the big corporations and you don’t hear of BT, Sainsbury’s or Esso complaining. Unfortunately, after that what’s left is the c**p at the bottom end of the haulage industry.

DCPCFML:

Grandpa:
I’m not here to argue, there IS a shortage of drivers from whatever source you want to name, whether that’s from the haulage companies themselves or the government. If it was simply a case of supply and demand, the rates would have increased to attract drivers so there isn’t a shortage of work, there’s a shortage of drivers to do cp work with cp salaries.

What on earth… ? Do you even read what you write? There is a shortage of drivers because if it was supply and demand the rates would have increased to attract drivers■■? Just read that back to yourself. The 2 statements contradict each other. :unamused:

If the rates haven’t increased or they’ve gone down, then that tells you :arrow_right: [drumroll please] THERE IS NO DRIVER SHORTAGE !!! Are you seriously this stupid and incapable of doing the math?

April 2020 : Everyone is going mental buying bog roll and hand sanitiser. Shelves are completely empty within hours across the entire country. RDCs have no stock to replenish and it’ll be 2 weeks before they get some more, but it will only be 2 artic loads for the entire country as the lead times are way out. Do we as Tesco jack the prices up 1000% and make bank, confident that all will sell at that price, or do we drop the prices by 10% because we’re feeling kind and charitable today? :unamused: Obviously they will jack the prices up because the demand is off the scale and the supply is limited.

Now apply the same scenario to Tesco Daventry who need 50 extra drivers for Monday night. Agency puts ad out advertising a tenner an hour. 30 drivers say they’re available and can do it. Agency rings Tesco tells them they can only do them 30 but could probably get you the full 50 if we can put up the rate from 12 to 13 quid an hour. OK, we’ll have to manage with 30 this week, but we’ll have a think about it and let you know. The following Monday, Tesco needs another 50 drivers and tells the agency we’ll pay 13 quid. Agency advertises for 11 quid and gets 50 drivers booked to do the work.

That’s it. Supply and demand. You’re not going to see agencies or companies offering more than they need to in order to get bums on seats. They are in business to make money, not be a charity for drivers offering £5/hr more than they need to because they feel sorry for you. If the market average for your area is £11/hr then that’s what you’re stuck with because there is enough supply willing to accept that rate. If the supply goes down eg. drivers unwilling to work for the rates on offer, then the rates will go up. Equally, if there is an over-supply of drivers in the area then the rates will decrease to £10.75, £10.50/hr until an equilibrium is reached.

investopedia.com/terms/e/equilibrium.asp

I’m at the retirement age now where I’m not going to get alternative work I’d be qualified for. As I got too old for my profession abroad, I came back to take up my old skill here. As I stated previously, in 2019 I had half a dozen jobs in less than six months and in none of them did I get to sit on my backside playing tunes and sleeping at £12-15ph. That’s for the agencies and recruiters on Indeed to lure people in and it’s obviously not working. Neither is employing ex-prisoners, training warehouse workers, or government schemes to lure people into driving with promises of a career and earning a good wage. It’s not an opinion or something I’ve made up; GOOGLE ‘SHORTAGE OF BRITISH HGV DRIVERS’(currently an estimated 76,000) and read for yourself what is now being termed a ‘logistics crisis.’

Twenty years ago I’d have said go for it, but not now. H&S, CPC and the WTD all helped to finish it off. I’m not disputing there isn’t work, but now explain to me why even the foreigners from low paid countries don’t want to do it anymore and many are going home and it’s not just because of Brexit. I applaud your attempt to try to make general haulage driving sound inviting, but the shortage figures speak for themselves. :slight_smile:

Grandpa:
The midlands ‘golden triangle’ has long gone, replaced by parcel companies and Eddie! When it gets to that stage it’s time to get out and that’s what’s happening and it’s not just me.

I work for a parcel company. Best job ive ever had. Great pay. 1 trunk. Sat around watching tv/sleeping for a few hours. Easy work. Zero handball. Great company to work for. Left to your own devices, no hassle from office. You sound like you are working at all the crapholes.

And Eddie? I cant believe how few you see on the roads nowadays… They have almost vanished!

Grandpa:
I’m at the retirement age now where I’m not going to get alternative work I’d be qualified for. As I got too old for my profession abroad, I came back to take up my old skill here. As I stated previously, in 2019 I had half a dozen jobs in less than six months and in none of them did I get to sit on my backside playing tunes and sleeping at £12-15ph. That’s for the agencies and recruiters on Indeed to lure people in and it’s obviously not working. Neither is employing ex-prisoners, training warehouse workers, or government schemes to lure people into driving with promises of a career and earning a good wage. It’s not an opinion or something I’ve made up; GOOGLE ‘SHORTAGE OF BRITISH HGV DRIVERS’(currently an estimated 76,000) and read for yourself what is now being termed a ‘logistics crisis.’

Twenty years ago I’d have said go for it, but not now. H&S, CPC and the WTD all helped to finish it off. I’m not disputing there isn’t work, but now explain to me why even the foreigners from low paid countries don’t want to do it anymore and many are going home and it’s not just because of Brexit. I applaud your attempt to try to make general haulage driving sound inviting, but the shortage figures speak for themselves. :slight_smile:

You are not listening and doing that Carryfast thing of ignoring all the evidence and just repeating yourself over and over.

Explain to me, who is moving all the goods from Rugby to everywhere else in the country to get them in shops and businesses if there are no drivers when the rates are £11/hr? There are only 2 possible answers :

  1. the goods aren’t moving and still stuck in Rugby.
  2. the goods are moving because there are enough drivers to move them for £11/hr.

Which is it ?

Grandpa:
I’m at the retirement age now where I’m not going to get alternative work I’d be qualified for. As I got too old for my profession abroad, I came back to take up my old skill here. As I stated previously, in 2019 I had half a dozen jobs in less than six months and in none of them did I get to sit on my backside playing tunes and sleeping at £12-15ph. That’s for the agencies and recruiters on Indeed to lure people in and it’s obviously not working. Neither is employing ex-prisoners, training warehouse workers, or government schemes to lure people into driving with promises of a career and earning a good wage. It’s not an opinion or something I’ve made up; GOOGLE ‘SHORTAGE OF BRITISH HGV DRIVERS’(currently an estimated 76,000) and read for yourself what is now being termed a ‘logistics crisis.’

Twenty years ago I’d have said go for it, but not now. H&S, CPC and the WTD all helped to finish it off. I’m not disputing there isn’t work, but now explain to me why even the foreigners from low paid countries don’t want to do it anymore and many are going home and it’s not just because of Brexit. I applaud your attempt to try to make general haulage driving sound inviting, but the shortage figures speak for themselves. :slight_smile:

Where do they get these figures from? In my area around only 25% of the jobs advertised on indeed are actual full time employment the rest are agencies touting for the same work. Of the 25% the vast majority are the same firms advertising every 3-4 weeks either because of low pay or crap attitude or both.

How many other professions have had decent wage rises over the years? Most are still on par in the increases as what haulage is.

switchlogic:

DCPCFML:
Does your other account on here have the handle “Carryfast” ?

My exact thought on reading it. :smiley:

You should do a video about this thread. This driver shortage myth is too hard for the simpletons to get their heads around. Market forces + supply and demand. It would probably help if you have some brightly coloured crayons and have the unique ability of being able to talk like a 5 year old using only small words and very short sentences.

You make me laugh DCPCFML with your attempt to explain economics. Neither of us are attempting to deny there’s lots of work, but you’re not even aware there’s a bums on seats crisis, never mind why. The Haulage Association are telling you, the government, companies, the media; all you have to do is google it … You’re still stuck at the £12 to 14ph for sitting on your backside playing tunes stage. Who are you, an agency? :laughing:

The low pay gig-economy we’re in has been collapsing for a decade and the ‘lockdown’ with its bankruptcies will probably just about finish it off. Dark days ahead, but I admire your misplaced optimism. I’m glad I’m out of it. :slight_smile:

Grandpa:
You make me laugh DCPCFML with your attempt to explain economics. Neither of us are attempting to deny there’s lots of work, but you’re not even aware there’s a bums on seats crisis, never mind why. The Haulage Association are telling you, the government, companies, the media; all you have to do is google it … You’re still stuck at the £12 to 14ph for sitting on your backside playing tunes stage. Who are you, an agency? :laughing:

The low pay gig-economy we’re in has been collapsing for a decade and the ‘lockdown’ with its bankruptcies will probably just about finish it off. Dark days ahead, but I admire your misplaced optimism. I’m glad I’m out of it. :slight_smile:

Still avoiding the very simple question I see.

Grandpa dont believe all you read in the press.Show me any haulage company that has trucks parked due to lack of drivers.From your previous posts you were always moaning.There are many people who have licences but were working in other sectors.Covid has brought some make .My mate actually said a degree on the wall does not pay bills.He is on the road now.I repeat there is no driver shortage .

Don’t know if it’s been said, but if there was a driver shortage (there ain’t btw) nobody would be working for an hourly rate less than 13/14 quid an hour, or a similar salary.
Don’t believe the populist bullcrap.

robroy:
Don’t know if it’s been said, but if there was a driver shortage (there ain’t btw) nobody would be working for an hourly rate less than 13/14 quid an hour, or a similar salary.
Don’t believe the populist bullcrap.

BUT BUT IT’S ON GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOGLE SO IT MUSSSSSSSST BE TRUEEEEEEEEE !!! :smiling_imp:

DCPCFML:

robroy:
Don’t know if it’s been said, but if there was a driver shortage (there ain’t btw) nobody would be working for an hourly rate less than 13/14 quid an hour, or a similar salary.
Don’t believe the populist bullcrap.

BUT BUT IT’S ON GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOGLE SO IT MUSSSSSSSST BE TRUEEEEEEEEE !!! :smiling_imp:

Tnet is also on ‘google’.
The ‘driver shortage’ is a myth being put out by the those with an interest in maintaining a rigged over supplied labour market.
They use the same excuse in numerous other sectors to keep the scam going.

if there’s no shortage of drivers why do I get txts every day saying desperate for drivers , all shifts available , £300 if you don’t have a holiday ,then you’ll get put in a £1,000 + draw , we’re still paying £300 recommend a driver etc etc , granpa has a point
But I will say why are you bothered , you state grandpa , unless you had kids very young you must be in your 50,s ( like me ) , time with family , holidays should be more important than what the hourly rate is ( you worry about that when you’ve mortgages , kids etc , don’t get dragged down to the level of the idiots on here, they don’t think b/h , time to enjoy ourself with family / friends they only think of b/ h as how many £££& can they earn , ■■■■ me why did they get married & have kids
Chill out granpa , put you’re feet up relax like us sensible ones already do ,

DCPCFML:

Grandpa:
You make me laugh DCPCFML with your attempt to explain economics. Neither of us are attempting to deny there’s lots of work, but you’re not even aware there’s a bums on seats crisis, never mind why. The Haulage Association are telling you, the government, companies, the media; all you have to do is google it … You’re still stuck at the £12 to 14ph for sitting on your backside playing tunes stage. Who are you, an agency? :laughing:

The low pay gig-economy we’re in has been collapsing for a decade and the ‘lockdown’ with its bankruptcies will probably just about finish it off. Dark days ahead, but I admire your misplaced optimism. I’m glad I’m out of it. :slight_smile:

Still avoiding the very simple question I see.

What question was that?

It’s not just that the driver shortage is on google. As I said, google ‘British HGV shortage.’ It’s not just the press, it’s the Haulier Association, Truck and Driver mag’, the government … It’s common knowledge. It’s not just a shortage; the whole industry is falling apart.

‘Three quarters of British truckers expect to go out of business within just 2 months due to the coronavirus outbreak.’

You remind me of the people who only months before the 2008 economic crash said it would never happen, when the whole world and its dog could see it coming. Amazing optimism. :slight_smile:

Grandpa:
It’s not just that the driver shortage is on google. As I said, google ‘British HGV shortage.’ It’s not just the press, it’s the Haulier Association, Truck and Driver mag’, the government … It’s common knowledge. It’s not just a shortage; the whole industry is falling apart.

Coronavirus: Three Quarters of UK Truckers Fear Collapse in 2 Months
‘Three quarters of British truckers expect to go out of business within just 2 months due to the coronavirus outbreak.’

You remind me of the people who only months before the 2008 economic crash said it would never happen, when the whole world and its dog could see it coming. Amazing optimism. :slight_smile:

Wonderful link:
3/4 of hauliers expect to be out of business in 2 months…
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Dated May 2020