Jamesduff:
We dont need a link we just have to look at the ads and some posts here
Ah, some = 85%. Obviously my bad.
Are people really so behind to what’s out there i know it’s hard to admit just in case you put your own position in jeopardy but really
A driving job has always paid minimum wage when you put every thing together and it always will because drivers don’t stick up for themselves or are willing to be treated bad
My own position in jeopardy? Bizarre. £12.25, paid through breaks, paid through POA, overtime after 8 hours, double time Sundays, double time and day in lieu for bank holidays, paid 12 hours per day if you are week ended, lowest earning Class 1 2017-18, shade over 40k, highest, shade over 48k. Yes that’s minimum wage and so brow beaten they stay for decades.
I suppose when you work for yourself or own your own business you can pay what you want and look down on the little people
I’ve only got two employees now, the other driver and myself, I’m the lowest paid, by quite a significant amount last year too. I wish I had his job when I was an employed driver, I doubt I would have ever bothered setting up on my own again. I count my blessings though, he can be a PITA at times, but he’s worth every penny he earns, no question about that.
Jamesduff:
People can give there responses or talk the talk about why but the thing is 85% of drivers are earning minimum wage some even less than minimum wage if you add up hours
I don’t believe that there is a shortage its just that there is too many people willing to work for a very low wage and long hours
That’s how a free market economy works. Hauliers obviously have no problem attracting drivers by offering the rates you mention. Otherwise they would have to offer more.
Jamesduff:
We dont need a link we just have to look at the ads and some posts here
Ah, some = 85%. Obviously my bad.
Are people really so behind to what’s out there i know it’s hard to admit just in case you put your own position in jeopardy but really
A driving job has always paid minimum wage when you put every thing together and it always will because drivers don’t stick up for themselves or are willing to be treated bad
My own position in jeopardy? Bizarre. £12.25, paid through breaks, paid through POA, overtime after 8 hours, double time Sundays, double time and day in lieu for bank holidays, paid 12 hours per day if you are week ended, lowest earning Class 1 2017-18, shade over 40k, highest, shade over 48k. Yes that’s minimum wage and so brow beaten they stay for decades.
■■■■! - I’m obviously living in the wrong part of the country! If that’s what your firms T&Cs are - then they seem very fair and forthright to me.
Jamesduff:
People can give there responses or talk the talk about why but the thing is 85% of drivers are earning minimum wage some even less than minimum wage if you add up hours
I don’t believe that there is a shortage its just that there is too many people willing to work for a very low wage and long hours
That’s how a free market economy works. Hauliers obviously have no problem attracting drivers by offering the rates you mention. Otherwise they would have to offer more.
I would think your a bit mixed up to what a free market is to a cartel
newmercman:
I’ve only got two employees now, the other driver and myself, I’m the lowest paid, by quite a significant amount last year too. I wish I had his job when I was an employed driver, I doubt I would have ever bothered setting up on my own again. I count my blessings though, he can be a PITA at times, but he’s worth every penny he earns, no question about that.
Sent from my SM-G950W using Tapatalk
At least I’m not the lowest paid NMM!
Winseer, I do genuinely like my lads and lass, it’s their continued good representation of the company that allows me to point out how good we are to the customer, so the customer stays with us.
It’s not easy work some weeks, we never pretend it is, but if its the type of job you like then we try to do right by the lads.
Jamesduff:
People can give there responses or talk the talk about why but the thing is 85% of drivers are earning minimum wage some even less than minimum wage if you add up hours
I don’t believe that there is a shortage its just that there is too many people willing to work for a very low wage and long hours
That’s how a free market economy works. Hauliers obviously have no problem attracting drivers by offering the rates you mention. Otherwise they would have to offer more.
I would think your a bit mixed up to what a free market is to a cartel
No, you are. A cartel is an arrangement whereby a small number of manufacturers or suppliers agree to keep prices at a certain level. There are tens of thousands of road hauliers. They do not all meet up in a room above a pub somewhere and agree to fix wage rates, which are decided instead by the law of supply and demand.
A small firm who you have good relationship with their drivers? Probably like that firm who is/was being sued by a tipper driver who didn’t look up. A good relationship soon fails over money.
I haven’t looked at that case since so don’t know what if anything has happened but what I read at the time the employees case was there was no WRITTEN safe system of work. Hence common sense/probably been told look up doesn’t apply.
I am no fan of paperwork. I used to hate it in my previous job and am pleased that compared to that have to do now. However I know why firms do it when you look at the risks of not
Well I don’t want to rehash that entire discussion, but the real accusation in that case seemed to be that there was no safe system of work - either because there was no system, or because the system they had was not safe. And if I remember correctly, it was said to be the second time the firm had suffered an electricity incident, with two separate drivers involved, showing that lighting does indeed strike twice for some firms.
If there was no training given, and no site inspections to spot hazards, then there is nothing for the driver to deny, no dishonest fiddle to perpetrate against the employer - the driver is telling the truth when he says there was no safe system of work in place, and that instead he was being left to his own devices to muddle through.
It will go down in lore that the employer merely “didn’t have a written system”, when in fact the actual problem was that the employer had no system - he had no system of training, no system of site inspections, and that’s why he has nothing on paper that would normally accompany a system of training and inspections. And that’s why the employer will be on the hook.
And you can argue the toss about whether you think employers should be obligated to provide such training and perform such inspections. I know some guys here think it should be “caveat operarius” - let the worker beware, and if he bungles and suffers injury whilst working on his employer’s orders, then that’s the worker’s problem. But that’s not the law, and there’s no point going into court and arguing, after a serious accident or death, that you’re the kind of boss who doesn’t think H&S laws should apply.
Harry Monk:
A cartel is an arrangement whereby a small number of manufacturers or suppliers agree to keep prices at a certain level. There are tens of thousands of road hauliers. They do not all meet up in a room above a pub somewhere and agree to fix wage rates, which are decided instead by the law of supply and demand.
‘Employers’ fixing ‘haulage rates’ isn’t the same thing as ‘employees’/‘unions’ fixing ‘wage’ rates in agreement with employers.Fixing ‘wage’ rates is what unions do ( or are supposed to do ) by stopping ‘employees’ from under cutting ‘each other’ and by doing so removing the option of employers bargaining with customers and competing against each other with their employees’ money.Employees and unions sticking together obviously can’t possibly be labelled a ‘cartel’ in that regard.On that note Hoffa’s Master Freight Agreement was effectively a case of employees fixing wage rates through their Union and no one ever said that was a cartel.Just as unions setting an industry sector ( tankers for example ) standard wage rate across different employers isn’t a cartel either.
I did hear that a group of S Wales hauliers had a cartel of sorts, I won’t name names as it was only MMTM, but I was told that three, maybe four big companies paid exactly the same to the penny, it was an effort to stop drivers moving around between them as they pretty much had the market sewn up between them. The only point in moving jobs was that you would get to drive a different coloured lorry. If it was used purely to retain staff it’s not a terrible thing, but I’m pretty sure that it would keep the wages artificially lower than they would have been otherwise.
Jamesduff:
People can give there responses or talk the talk about why but the thing is 85% of drivers are earning minimum wage some even less than minimum wage if you add up hours
I don’t believe that there is a shortage its just that there is too many people willing to work for a very low wage and long hours
That’s how a free market economy works. Hauliers obviously have no problem attracting drivers by offering the rates you mention. Otherwise they would have to offer more.
I would think your a bit mixed up to what a free market is to a cartel
There’s a growing number of hauliers, who are perhaps taking advantage of those prospective sign-ups that cannot count, or reason through a contract properly, to see where the pitfalls are.
Albion’s “Fair and forthright” employee/employer deal - is the exception and not the norm - I’m sure.
Look at the way that say, Stobarts dresses up a crappy hourly rate by all those add-ons, some of which are a bit “Inland Revenue-Suspect” of course.
All we want to know is
How many hours low to high, is a driver at this establishment expected to put in
Over how many shifts
Over what range of start times (finish times not anywhere near as important)
At what hourly rate
Any nights out/weekends/BHs expected, and is “compusory” overtime payable, indeed any overtime payable?
Just saying “Truckers here regularily take home over £500 per week” does NOT necessarily make it a good job compared to the £480pw gross at your local nobbies yard, say.
Break it down into “Hourly Rate” first and foremost, and go from there.
Harry Monk:
A cartel is an arrangement whereby a small number of manufacturers or suppliers agree to keep prices at a certain level. There are tens of thousands of road hauliers. They do not all meet up in a room above a pub somewhere and agree to fix wage rates, which are decided instead by the law of supply and demand.
‘Employers’ fixing ‘haulage rates’ isn’t the same thing as ‘employees’/‘unions’ fixing ‘wage’ rates in agreement with employers.Fixing ‘wage’ rates is what unions do ( or are supposed to do ) by stopping ‘employees’ from under cutting ‘each other’ and by doing so removing the option of employers bargaining with customers and competing against each other with their employees’ money.Employees and unions sticking together obviously can’t possibly be labelled a ‘cartel’ in that regard.On that note Hoffa’s Master Freight Agreement was effectively a case of employees fixing wage rates through their Union and no one ever said that was a cartel.Just as unions setting an industry sector ( tankers for example ) standard wage rate across different employers isn’t a cartel either.
I think you are reading too much into it CF
Truck drivers will work for peanuts because they are (in the majority of cases) spineless. They hide behind excuses like ’ the EE’s will do it if I don’t ’ or ’ it’s only round the corner from my house ’ etc.
It’s fear and the shackles of a mortgage and a car on finance that trap them into driving a million hours a week for £9 per hour with no extra overtime rate. These drivers DESERVE minimum wage for steering an automatic truck on cruise control with power steering and a really comfy seat to cushion their glass backs.
No, - but they might deserve it for buying a car on finance which is got to be a worse waste of money than doing your wages on the FOBTs at the nearest UnBookmakers.
That’s an interesting point eagerbeaver, back in the day a lorry driver would live in a council house/flat and drive a car a few steps away from an mot failure, have no credit cards and have a fortnight on the Isle of Wight for the family holidays.
Now they live in quarter of a million pound houses, drive new his and hers cars, have maxed out credit cards and go to The Maldives, yet the job still pays wages that allow the lifestyle of the former.
Champagne tastes and Lemonade pockets, with the only way of making it happen being earning more money and low hourly rates making lots of hours the only way to achieve that. Everyone has far too much on the line to make a stand, more so since the EEs are in the shadows waiting to replace them.
Harry Monk:
A cartel is an arrangement whereby a small number of manufacturers or suppliers agree to keep prices at a certain level. There are tens of thousands of road hauliers. They do not all meet up in a room above a pub somewhere and agree to fix wage rates, which are decided instead by the law of supply and demand.
‘Employers’ fixing ‘haulage rates’ isn’t the same thing as ‘employees’/‘unions’ fixing ‘wage’ rates in agreement with employers.Fixing ‘wage’ rates is what unions do ( or are supposed to do ) by stopping ‘employees’ from under cutting ‘each other’ and by doing so removing the option of employers bargaining with customers and competing against each other with their employees’ money.Employees and unions sticking together obviously can’t possibly be labelled a ‘cartel’ in that regard.On that note Hoffa’s Master Freight Agreement was effectively a case of employees fixing wage rates through their Union and no one ever said that was a cartel.Just as unions setting an industry sector ( tankers for example ) standard wage rate across different employers isn’t a cartel either.
I think you are reading too much into it CF
Truck drivers will work for peanuts because they are (in the majority of cases) spineless. They hide behind excuses like ’ the EE’s will do it if I don’t ’ or ’ it’s only round the corner from my house ’ etc.
It’s fear and the shackles of a mortgage and a car on finance that trap them into driving a million hours a week for £9 per hour with no extra overtime rate. These drivers DESERVE minimum wage for steering an automatic truck on cruise control with power steering and a really comfy seat to cushion their glass backs.
newmercman:
That’s an interesting point eagerbeaver, back in the day a lorry driver would live in a council house/flat and drive a car a few steps away from an mot failure, have no credit cards and have a fortnight on the Isle of Wight for the family holidays.
Now they live in quarter of a million pound houses, drive new his and hers cars, have maxed out credit cards and go to The Maldives, yet the job still pays wages that allow the lifestyle of the former.
Champagne tastes and Lemonade pockets, with the only way of making it happen being earning more money and low hourly rates making lots of hours the only way to achieve that. Everyone has far too much on the line to make a stand.
All part of Maggie and The Tories brilliant plan in the 80s, to eradicate strikes for better wages and t.s and c.s…
Sell the great unwashed their Council Houses, to put mortgages around their necks, put a spin on it that ‘‘We are doing it purely for their own good’’ (avoiding the ulterior motive coming out) thus ensuring their votes in the next election.
Result workers working for crap wages with no stomach for industrial action, and voting Tory…brilliant.
newmercman:
That’s an interesting point eagerbeaver, back in the day a lorry driver would live in a council house/flat and drive a car a few steps away from an mot failure, have no credit cards and have a fortnight on the Isle of Wight for the family holidays.
Now they live in quarter of a million pound houses, drive new his and hers cars, have maxed out credit cards and go to The Maldives, yet the job still pays wages that allow the lifestyle of the former.
Champagne tastes and Lemonade pockets, with the only way of making it happen being earning more money and low hourly rates making lots of hours the only way to achieve that. Everyone has far too much on the line to make a stand.
All part of Maggie and The Tories brilliant plan in the 80s, to eradicate strikes for better wages and t.s and c.s…
Sell the great unwashed their Council Houses, to put mortgages around their necks, put a spin on it that ‘‘We are doing it purely for their own good’’ (avoiding the ulterior motive coming out) thus ensuring their votes in the next election.
Result workers working for crap wages with no stomach for industrial action, and voting Tory…brilliant.
I agree in part ,But i would never ever vote Labour again ,So who would you vote for now Rob?
newmercman:
That’s an interesting point eagerbeaver, back in the day a lorry driver would live in a council house/flat and drive a car a few steps away from an mot failure, have no credit cards and have a fortnight on the Isle of Wight for the family holidays.
Now they live in quarter of a million pound houses, drive new his and hers cars, have maxed out credit cards and go to The Maldives, yet the job still pays wages that allow the lifestyle of the former.
Champagne tastes and Lemonade pockets, with the only way of making it happen being earning more money and low hourly rates making lots of hours the only way to achieve that. Everyone has far too much on the line to make a stand.
All part of Maggie and The Tories brilliant plan in the 80s, to eradicate strikes for better wages and t.s and c.s…
Sell the great unwashed their Council Houses, to put mortgages around their necks, put a spin on it that ‘‘We are doing it purely for their own good’’ (avoiding the ulterior motive coming out) thus ensuring their votes in the next election.
Result workers working for crap wages with no stomach for industrial action, and voting Tory…brilliant.
I agree in part ,But i would never ever vote Labour again ,So who would you vote for now Rob?
Tbh mate I don’t know,.as there is no longer any party that represents me as a ‘‘working bloke’’.
Labour who were originally there just for that, have completely lost their way… and their reason to be.
newmercman:
That’s an interesting point eagerbeaver, back in the day a lorry driver would live in a council house/flat and drive a car a few steps away from an mot failure, have no credit cards and have a fortnight on the Isle of Wight for the family holidays.
Now they live in quarter of a million pound houses, drive new his and hers cars, have maxed out credit cards and go to The Maldives, yet the job still pays wages that allow the lifestyle of the former.
Champagne tastes and Lemonade pockets, with the only way of making it happen being earning more money and low hourly rates making lots of hours the only way to achieve that. Everyone has far too much on the line to make a stand.
All part of Maggie and The Tories brilliant plan in the 80s, to eradicate strikes for better wages and t.s and c.s…
Sell the great unwashed their Council Houses, to put mortgages around their necks, put a spin on it that ‘‘We are doing it purely for their own good’’ (avoiding the ulterior motive coming out) thus ensuring their votes in the next election.
Result workers working for crap wages with no stomach for industrial action, and voting Tory…brilliant.
I agree in part ,But i would never ever vote Labour again ,So who would you vote for now Rob?
Tbh mate I don’t know,.as there is no longer any party that represents me as a ‘‘working bloke’’.
Labour who were originally there just for that, have completely lost their way… and their reason to be.
Times moved on from Maggy .we have got no choice these days .Labour is out of the question .Tory is so so .and lib dem ukip etc would get us a corbyn abbott joke party in power .so be best off with terrible may .For now anyway …
If that’s what your firms T&Cs are - then they seem very fair and forthright to me.
