I don’t for one minute think Rjan that Robroy’s Co will go to the wall if he leaves, any more than mine would if I left. My post wasn’t about hurting them by leaving, but more about keeping your dignity and walking with your head held high by refusing to accept their petty bullying and removing oneself from that situation.
No they won’t go to the wall, but, and i’ve seen this happen with mine own eyes, a good worker finally can take the rubbish no more, snaps and walks, because they are a good worker who has built up a reputation/history they often find themselves a very decent new job, happy days, but the story doesn’t end there.
Cos old workmates tend to keep in touch, and when matey walks into south mimms one day for a break looking relaxed and happy in his new life, where he used to be run ragged, he runs into some of his old buds and they get talking about stuff, before you know it a couple of them have been in touch jacked in and jumped to the same ship.
After a couple of months the sensible alert mature TM at company B realises his three new drivers are from the just give em the paperwork and keys and forget about them school of lorrying, and he’s already twigged that the boss at company A is a fool who imagines competent reliable resourceful drivers grow on trees (or as we were told many years ago by a company A bully boss, ‘‘i can get drivers ten a penny’’) and wonders if there might be some more cherries ripe and ready for picking, so TM at company B sidles up to the 3 newish lads one day and whispers in their ear that if any of your old workmates you would recommend at company A want to come here, here’s my direct phone number just get them to ring me, and within 6 months about a dozen of the most competent drivers company A took for granted are now happily very much appreciated and earning more for easier work at company B.
Company A down the line ends up having to pay some of the best money in the specific sector to recruit and retain drivers, he ate those ‘‘ten a penny’’ words a few times.
the maoster:
I don’t for one minute think Rjan that Robroy’s Co will go to the wall if he leaves, any more than mine would if I left. My post wasn’t about hurting them by leaving, but more about keeping your dignity and walking with your head held high by refusing to accept their petty bullying and removing oneself from that situation.
I got what you meant mate, I just didn’t bother responding to his post.
As for being ‘‘A cut above’’ or ‘‘Over estimating my value’’ that’s up to him however he wants to interpret my post, but believe me with some of them you would have to be clinically brain dead to be one step worse below them, so no boasting from my point of view just a blindingly obvious observation.
I stll can not see how a firm will be as efficient and profitable with the same number of drivers who are totally feckless, to another company who employ same number of good lads,…but hey, what do I know eh? 
there’s always the green machine rob.
just saying like 
m.a.n rules:
there’s always the green machine rob.just saying like
Oh God !! 
Think I’d rather sign the bloody contract. 
This may or may not be relevant -
last job the firm decided to change our duties, they decided that it wasn’t a change of T&Cs as they had a line in the contract about ‘business needs’ (or the like) which effectively could require us to sweep the yard, clean the toilets, valet the management’s cars, etc. on their say so. Union was following a grievance procedure that had already gone through a few stages and ACAS had been involved for a few months. The majority had signed a ‘work under protest’ form rather than push it harder.
Day of the implementation arrived and so did I with a very simple and short letter stating that I was unwilling to undertake the change in duties, it was not what I signed up for (7 years previously) and that my stance was that it was not and never would be the duty of an employed driver. Escorted off site, fully paid during the suspension, investigation, disciplinary, final written warning, return to work, went in on time with another letter saying that nothing had changed, escorted off site again, suspended again, investigation again, disciplinary again, another final written warning. It only took 3 months to get to this, went in for a week, 2 weeks holiday and resigned on my return. Never varied from my initial short statement in the letters, never embellished, argued or reasoned, simply ‘its not my job as a lorry driver’. The more you say, the more ammo they have to use against you.
3 years on agency followed and now over a year into full time employment, but this job is going downhill ever faster as each day passes, the ‘union’ isn’t recognised by the firm and the harder they push to get it the harder the firm are pushing back, its not going to be a pretty end to it all, but as long as I get my next DCPC paid for before September I’ll stick it out.
DF40:
robroy:
I know this has been covered before but I just want some clarification.If a co revises contracts of employment with clauses you do not agree with, my belief is that if you just do not sign it, then by law it is still considered that you are still considered in agreeance to the terms of that contract anyway …correct?
So…if you disagree with certain clauses that in your opinion is unreasonable to the point of taking the ■■■■…Do you…
Refuse to sign it, but attatch a note pointing out you do not agreee with clauses x y and z to clarify why?
Sign it as an acknowledgement of receipt only, and then attatch the note of disagreeance?
Just hand it back unsigned but instead write out an official grievance letter in place of it?
Or some other option?
Also…Can they "make you’’ sign it in terms of…No signature no job.
Thanks
.I’m sure they have 90 days in which they can inform you of their intended changes to contract. Then after that they can basically rip up your contract & put you on new one.
Sent from my moto e5 play using Tapatalk
Did this at our place a couple of years ago. Drivers with between two years and thirty years service all covered by about three or four different contracts. Company didn’t like this so wanted everyone on the same contract. For the older drivers it was a big change in terms and conditions, for the newer drivers not so much. It caused lots of problems between staff and company with even more bad blood directed at the bosses.
In the end they told us to sign the contract by a certain date. For those that didn’t, (nearly all) we were then deemed to have handed in our notice and were now serving a three month notice period. We would then be allowed to sign on the last day to stay employed… or leave.
Just about everyone signed, even the unionised yards, but we adapted to the new rules and eventually worked it so that they benefited us
However, it’s that time again and now they are trying to change shift pattens, contracted hours and God knows what else. Only this time it’s been implemented one yard at a time so that there isn’t as big of a push back
Johneboy:
DF40:
robroy:
I know this has been covered before but I just want some clarification.If a co revises contracts of employment with clauses you do not agree with, my belief is that if you just do not sign it, then by law it is still considered that you are still considered in agreeance to the terms of that contract anyway …correct?
So…if you disagree with certain clauses that in your opinion is unreasonable to the point of taking the ■■■■…Do you…
Refuse to sign it, but attatch a note pointing out you do not agreee with clauses x y and z to clarify why?
Sign it as an acknowledgement of receipt only, and then attatch the note of disagreeance?
Just hand it back unsigned but instead write out an official grievance letter in place of it?
Or some other option?
Also…Can they "make you’’ sign it in terms of…No signature no job.
Thanks
.I’m sure they have 90 days in which they can inform you of their intended changes to contract. Then after that they can basically rip up your contract & put you on new one.
Sent from my moto e5 play using Tapatalk
Did this at our place a couple of years ago. Drivers with between two years and thirty years service all covered by about three or four different contracts. Company didn’t like this so wanted everyone on the same contract. For the older drivers it was a big change in terms and conditions, for the newer drivers not so much. It caused lots of problems between staff and company with even more bad blood directed at the bosses.
In the end they told us to sign the contract by a certain date. For those that didn’t, (nearly all) we were then deemed to have handed in our notice and were now serving a three month notice period. We would then be allowed to sign on the last day to stay employed… or leave.
Just about everyone signed, even the unionised yards, but we adapted to the new rules and eventually worked it so that they benefited us [emoji38]
However, it’s that time again and now they are trying to change shift pattens, contracted hours and God knows what else. Only this time it’s been implemented one yard at a time so that there isn’t as big of a push back
It’s called a " consaltation" period. Although this means after 90 days we are changing your contract.
Sent from my moto e5 play using Tapatalk
robroy:
the maoster:
I don’t for one minute think Rjan that Robroy’s Co will go to the wall if he leaves, any more than mine would if I left. My post wasn’t about hurting them by leaving, but more about keeping your dignity and walking with your head held high by refusing to accept their petty bullying and removing oneself from that situation.I got what you meant mate, I just didn’t bother responding to his post.
As for being ‘‘A cut above’’ or ‘‘Over estimating my value’’ that’s up to him however he wants to interpret my post, but believe me with some of them you would have to be clinically brain dead to be one step worse below them, so no boasting from my point of view just a blindingly obvious observation.
I stll can not see how a firm will be as efficient and profitable with the same number of drivers who are totally feckless, to another company who employ same number of good lads,…but hey, what do I know eh?
I wasn’t trying to be harsh toward you, I’m just challenging how you implicitly characterise your remaining co-workers as lesser drivers.
Of course your boss, perhaps in desperation under time constraints, may replace you with a driver of far lower inherent competence.
But as likely is that he replaces you with someone of the same general competence, or even finds a gem.
What that new person won’t have however is your familiarity with the vehicles, the equipment, the systems of work, the sites regularly visited, and the roads regularly driven.
Problems and calamities are then far more likely to ensue, but not necessarily because your boss has replaced good with bad, but because he has replaced people who are finely experienced and habituated to his firm and operation, with those who are not.
And of course, whatever happens, the boss has all the administrative burden of recruiting and habituating another worker, which will be a cost and hassle to him.
But of course there could be costs for you too. You will be higher risk while settling into your new job, there’ll be a learning curve, other aspects of the conditions may be worse, and you’ll be the first out the door if the company cuts back or if you make a mistake which as a known quantity with a solid history may have been forgiven in your old firm, and you won’t at first have any friends willing to take your side in things.
I’m perhaps not quite able to put my finger briefly on the point on this, but your attitude to your colleagues is liable to undermine solidarity.
I’ve seen it before where fellas with decades under their belt, they spend plenty of time telling themselves they should be on more money than anyone else they work with and most should be on less, they never take anyone else’s side whose problems are all due to those others’ own inferior competence, and then finally they walk out over some minor issue which is in their view the last straw. Usually with these people there is also a forgotten history of serious mistakes or near misses known only to themselves and that were only avoided through chance.
If you think the work you do is worth more, then bargain collectively for better pay. If management attitudes are going off the rails, confront them collectively. You may never have had to leave, or accept less pay for the time you worked there, if you had. The boss too would have benefitted eventually because he wouldn’t have had to learn his lessons from an exodus.
But nobody will do that if they all have an attitude that they are an underpaid gem working mostly alongside a bunch of pillocks. The man who leaves might well do better than the man who stays under adverse conditions, but none of them do as well in the long run as the men who stick together to mutually protect the pay and conditions of their jobs.
Rjan:
robroy:
the maoster:
I don’t for one minute think Rjan that Robroy’s Co will go to the wall if he leaves, any more than mine would if I left. My post wasn’t about hurting them by leaving, but more about keeping your dignity and walking with your head held high by refusing to accept their petty bullying and removing oneself from that situation.I got what you meant mate, I just didn’t bother responding to his post.
As for being ‘‘A cut above’’ or ‘‘Over estimating my value’’ that’s up to him however he wants to interpret my post, but believe me with some of them you would have to be clinically brain dead to be one step worse below them, so no boasting from my point of view just a blindingly obvious observation.
I stll can not see how a firm will be as efficient and profitable with the same number of drivers who are totally feckless, to another company who employ same number of good lads,…but hey, what do I know eh?
I wasn’t trying to be harsh toward you, I’m just challenging how you implicitly characterise your remaining co-workers as lesser drivers.
Of course your boss, perhaps in desperation under time constraints, may replace you with a driver of far lower inherent competence.
But as likely is that he replaces you with someone of the same general competence, or even finds a gem.
What that new person won’t have however is your familiarity with the vehicles, the equipment, the systems of work, the sites regularly visited, and the roads regularly driven.
Problems and calamities are then far more likely to ensue, but not necessarily because your boss has replaced good with bad, but because he has replaced people who are finely experienced and habituated to his firm and operation, with those who are not.
And of course, whatever happens, the boss has all the administrative burden of recruiting and habituating another worker, which will be a cost and hassle to him.
But of course there could be costs for you too. You will be higher risk while settling into your new job, there’ll be a learning curve, other aspects of the conditions may be worse, and you’ll be the first out the door if the company cuts back or if you make a mistake which as a known quantity with a solid history may have been forgiven in your old firm, and you won’t at first have any friends willing to take your side in things.
I’m perhaps not quite able to put my finger briefly on the point on this, but your attitude to your colleagues is liable to undermine solidarity.
I’ve seen it before where fellas with decades under their belt, they spend plenty of time telling themselves they should be on more money than anyone else they work with and most should be on less, they never take anyone else’s side whose problems are all due to those others’ own inferior competence, and then finally they walk out over some minor issue which is in their view the last straw. Usually with these people there is also a forgotten history of serious mistakes or near misses known only to themselves and that were only avoided through chance.
If you think the work you do is worth more, then bargain collectively for better pay. If management attitudes are going off the rails, confront them collectively. You may never have had to leave, or accept less pay for the time you worked there, if you had. The boss too would have benefitted eventually because he wouldn’t have had to learn his lessons from an exodus.
But nobody will do that if they all have an attitude that they are an underpaid gem working mostly alongside a bunch of pillocks. The man who leaves might well do better than the man who stays under adverse conditions, but none of them do as well in the long run as the men who stick together to mutually protect the pay and conditions of their jobs.
Tbf mate I did use the word ‘‘some’’ while referring to my co workers, which clearly signifies the fact that I was not referring to all of them, there are in fact a lot of good men there.
The (misunderstood) air of superiority you refer to was not intentional on my part, I was speaking in the context of Juddians point I referred to about making rules based on the lowest common denominator of driver quality, and pointed out there was (again SOME) of our drivers were basically ■■■■ useless.
I’m certainly not naive enough to think that I am irreplaceable, or that one of the others (although maybe not the idiot element) could do the job as efficient as I may or may not do.
My main aspect of my point about doing a job that I liked, that nobody else wanted to do, and that by their own admission telling me they were more than satisfied with how I was doing it, was…
Why rock a mutually beneficial boat by agitating me, .and why try and fix something that was not broke. 
Hope that clarifies.