As has been said, attitudes have to change and a 'it's their own fault' attitude achieves nothing.
I made no such suggestion.
On the contrary it is you who is still seeming to apportion all the responsibilty for cyclists being safe on the roads as being down to the drivers and their awareness and training.
Clearly it is not.
Most, no all, hgv drivers have received some training on awarness of other road users including cyclists via their vocational licence training but it is doubtful if ANY cyclist has received any reciprocal instruction of any kind. with the possible exception of the ROSPAs’ cycling proficiency award
Whilst I agree that further training, via DCPC or another form, is a good idea it does nothing to address the lack of training/ awareness in the most vulnerable, i.e. the cyclist.
And that is exactly where “attitudes” need to change.
It is no longer viable for cyclists to be encouraged to believe that it is the resposibility of others to be aware of and safeguard them… they have to educated and compelled by law to look after themselves and take responsibility for their own safety.
In much the same way as EVERY other road user with a vehicle.
There are perhaps these groups of road users …
Pedestrians
Cyclists
Motorbikers
Private B category drivers
Commercial B category drivers
Commercial C & D category drivers
Which group are involved in most incidents with any of the others in areas where all are present in numbers? - does anyone know…
the maoster:
Surely you can’t be advocating that truck drivers get on their bikes as part of their DCPC training? I can just picture 20 or 30 fat, asthmatic, hi vis and lycra clad potential heart attacks wobbling through town following a trainer with a flashing beacon stuck on his safety helmet!
the maoster:
No, far better to provide compulsory training to the vulnerable ones in this equation before they are entitled to do battle on the city streets. After all, it’s quite rare for a motorist to be killed by a cyclist as far as I’m aware.
Agreed, but that’s the problem, cycles are not dangerous to others.
As has been said, attitudes have to change and a 'it's their own fault' attitude achieves nothing.
I made no such suggestion.
On the contrary it is you who is still seeming to apportion all the responsibilty for cyclists being safe on the roads as being down to the drivers and their awareness and training.
Clearly it is not.
Most, no all, hgv drivers have received some training on awarness of other road users including cyclists via their vocational licence training but it is doubtful if ANY cyclist has received any reciprocal instruction of any kind. with the possible exception of the ROSPAs’ cycling proficiency award
Whilst I agree that further training, via DCPC or another form, is a good idea it does nothing to address the lack of training/ awareness in the most vulnerable, i.e. the cyclist.
And that is exactly where “attitudes” need to change.
It is no longer viable for cyclists to be encouraged to believe that it is the resposibility of others to be aware of and safeguard them… they have to educated and compelled by law to look after themselves and take responsibility for their own safety.
In much the same way as EVERY other road user with a vehicle.
I agree, it should be a two pronged approach. This is a forum for Professional Drivers and is appropriate for my suggestion regarding the DCPC. Again I reitterate ‘This in no way absolves other road users from their responsibilities’. Most schools undertake a Safe Cycling course, my children have certainly been on one. These courses are available free of charge to all cyclists. I would encourage every road user to undertake appropriate training, I am astounded that there is little done to educate pedestrians at school. Whether it could be made compulsory is a bigger question.
I’m not arguing for anything terrible here or suggesting that everything is our fault (we get enough of that in our working lives), just that if we are going to be forced into 35 hours of training, this might do some good.
FarnboroughBoy11:
What a load of bollox!!! What more can we do??
We check our blind spots, be extra cautious when traffic is stop start. There is only so much a driver can do from his seat, we can check our mirrors as many times as we want but in that split second we are checking the other mirror some idiot will be up the inside.
It’s cyclists who need educating not the drivers!!
I would put good money on every single one of those deaths that the cyclist was on the near side. They don’t deserve to die but if they play with fire they are going to get burnt.
I agree with a lot of the things said here, but how many of us have seen stupidity, regularly, mind you! from cyclists who flout the law and run red lights, cross pavements, even running through pedestrian crossings, when the lights are against them, and they shout abuse at anyone who gets in there way. Can you imagine the outcry, if cars and trucks decided to ignore the signs, the way that some cyclists do?, not all cyclists are bad, but I have seen some real idiots that think they own the road, these are the ones that 99% of the time, are the ones that are injured in these type of accidents.
sapper:
I agree with a lot of the things said here, but how many of us have seen stupidity, regularly, mind you! from cyclists who flout the law and run red lights, cross pavements, even running through pedestrian crossings, when the lights are against them, and they shout abuse at anyone who gets in there way. Can you imagine the outcry, if cars and trucks decided to ignore the signs, the way that some cyclists do?, not all cyclists are bad, but I have seen some real idiots that think they own the road, these are the ones that 99% of the time, are the ones that are injured in these type of accidents.
Sapper
This is so true. Cyclists will regurlarly come up the inside of me at junctions even though I am signalling left.
I am not sure of the point or accuracy of your accertion that 99% of the ones injured come into this catagory and dare I suggest that it is another example of ‘their own fault’?
That they need to be made responsible for their actions is without doubt and there will be long arguments about this for years. The sad fact is that as professionals we have a duty to protect them.
The whole issue is a load of bollox.Get cyclists off the roads and onto the pavement.Then make them as responsible for avoiding accidents with pedestrians on the pavement a the idiots want drivers to be in the case of cyclists coming into conflict with trucks and cars on the road.In which case they’ll have to ride a lot slower and be aware of what’s going on around them.With the charges relating to a cyclist hitting pedestrians being the same as those faced by drivers hitting them on a pedestrian crossing.It’s a more logical way of dealing with the problem.
Carryfast:
The whole issue is a load of bollox.Get cyclists off the roads and onto the pavement.Then make them as responsible for avoiding accidents with pedestrians on the pavement a the idiots want drivers to be in the case of cyclists coming into conflict with trucks and cars on the road.It’s a more logical way of dealing with the problem.
Blimey … Did you just agree with me ? … tablet time
Carryfast:
The whole issue is a load of bollox.Get cyclists off the roads and onto the pavement.Then make them as responsible for avoiding accidents with pedestrians on the pavement a the idiots want drivers to be in the case of cyclists coming into conflict with trucks and cars on the road.It’s a more logical way of dealing with the problem.
Blimey … Did you just agree with me ? … tablet time
Unfortunately the pavements were not designed or suitable for cyclists. The roads were, we came along later. We might think that we are more important, but the fact is that if cyclists were not allowed on the road, then I and millions of others would not get to work.
FarnboroughBoy11:
What a load of bollox!!! What more can we do??
We check our blind spots, be extra cautious when traffic is stop start. There is only so much a driver can do from his seat, we can check our mirrors as many times as we want but in that split second we are checking the other mirror some idiot will be up the inside.
It’s cyclists who need educating not the drivers!!
I would put good money on every single one of those deaths that the cyclist was on the near side. They don’t deserve to die but if they play with fire they are going to get burnt.
Sun:
"That’s when I decided to hire a private traffic investigator, who went through all the evidence to establish what had happened. From the CCTV footage, he discovered that Alex had definitely seen the lorry.
"She had stopped earlier to let it pass, but caught up with it at the traffic lights. The lights were changing to green as she approached and she carried on forward.
"The lorry only started indicating to turn left when Alex was already alongside it, so she never saw its signal. How was she supposed to know it was about to turn?
Tragic though it is, no-one to blame here other than the cyclist. Cyclists in general ■■■■ me off big time because they’re all a bunch of hypocrites. You see them whining like little girls on internet forums about vehicles overtaking them too close and ranting and raving about how dangerous it is if you come within a cars width of them, yet all this goes straight out of the window when they get to slow moving traffic that is travelling slower than they can pedal and it suddenly becomes perfectly okay to ride between the traffic and the kerb with only millimetres clearance between them. They want to have their cake and eat it and they can ■■■■ right off.
I watched the programme again because I had it recorded and for most of it the pavements were easily and safely capable for cyclists to use so perhaps the law and current thinking is wrong
and so it begins. what started as a reasoned talk on cycling v motor vehicle only to have the usual tool turn up. its the attitude that all cyclists are in the wrong because they are in my way. its that attitude that ensures things will never change. as far as im concerned its the problem with society as a whole, nobody has time for anything or anybody except themselves. we all think we are in the right, even when we know we are wrong. no amount of training for cyclists or truckers will stop accidents happening, people are too self absorbed.
the way I see it is that there is no deterrent to cyclists riding like idiots in traffic, just as there is no real deterrent to motorists when they kill a cyclist, average sentence is 9 months. im not expecting things to change anytime soon.
ride on the pavement! last time I looked at the HWC it was not allowed, also its full of pedestrians. given that around 2 million vehicles on the road have no tax or insurance I don’t think that is viable either. road tax does not exist, we all pay for roads and, if you care to check, there are plenty of cars on the road that do not pay any car tax. the Volvo v40, the Toyota prius and the vw 1,6 bluemotion to name a couple. have a look at ipayroadtax,com for more info.
Slackbladder:
and so it begins. what started as a reasoned talk on cycling v motor vehicle only to have the usual tool turn up. its the attitude that all cyclists are in the wrong because they are in my way. its that attitude that ensures things will never change. as far as im concerned its the problem with society as a whole, nobody has time for anything or anybody except themselves. we all think we are in the right, even when we know we are wrong. no amount of training for cyclists or truckers will stop accidents happening, people are too self absorbed.
I do hope that was not aimed at my comments !!
I drove in london for years without any problems with any road users and have no great desire to remove cyclists from the road
My logic is to deal now with the current situation in the safest manner possible
Hexhome:
Unfortunately the pavements were not designed or suitable for cyclists. The roads were, we came along later. We might think that we are more important, but the fact is that if cyclists were not allowed on the road, then I and millions of others would not get to work.
Total bs.I used to ride a bike to school which was a fair distance of urban streets after giving up on the bus service and never once used any roads I always used the pavement all the time every time.I got nicked by a copper once who came round to have a word with my dad about it.My dad made out he agreed with the copper and said he’d sort me out.Then told him to zb off after he’d shut the front door behind him as he left.
That’s exactly what I’m advocating.
