Brexit and the driver shortage

kcrussell25:

Beetlejuice:
kcrussell25
Sorry i cannot seem to reply
You are on nights and getting £14 paye ?with real holiday pay and taxes and insurances paid properly ,I am yet to see an agency who pay £12 let alone £14 PROPER PAYE
Could you share who they are ?

Edit ,Is £14 weekend nights ?It must be ?

No that is week day nights. I do Monday to Friday nights. Weekend nights are extra but not sure what as I don’t do them.

Zest recruitment, deal with a guy called Gerry. If you want I will pm his phone number?

Not bad ,Some are obviously starting to wake up then ,Most would rather not earn tgemselves , than pay a descent rate to workers .no thanks ,I don’t think i could hack stobart or working for any agency :wink:

Beetlejuice:
Not bad ,Some are obviously starting to wake up then ,Most would rather not earn tgemselves , than pay a descent rate to workers .no thanks ,I don’t think i could hack stobart or working for any agency :wink:

I’ve done the odd Saturday shift for Stobart working out of Coventry on the Co-op contract, not in a Stobart liveried truck although true aficionados can spot anything Stobart by the numbers on the doors and I have had my truck photographed by a young lad working at one of the delivery points who clearly wasn’t the full ticket. He was harmless enough though so I chatted with him about his hobby for a few minutes.

They’re not too bad to work for. They are obsessed with the bridge bashing thing (they obviously read TruckNet :stuck_out_tongue: ) a lot of the induction is about vehicle height awareness and someone phones from HQ to check that you have set your height indicator correctly shortly after you set off. Other than that they tend to leave you alone.

I do agency work mostly for the following reason. I was tipping in Muller at Market Drayton a while ago, and while waiting to book in I read a notice on the wall about annual leave, which told drivers when they could and could not book holiday. Time off in July or August, forget it, but you can apply to have a week off in November or February if you want and you might get it if you ask nicely, subject to company approval.

Err, well I don’t work like that. I tell the transport industry when I am and am not working, not the other way round. :stuck_out_tongue:

Harry Monk:

Beetlejuice:
Not bad ,Some are obviously starting to wake up then ,Most would rather not earn tgemselves , than pay a descent rate to workers .no thanks ,I don’t think i could hack stobart or working for any agency :wink:

I’ve done the odd Saturday shift for Stobart working out of Coventry on the Co-op contract, not in a Stobart liveried truck although true aficionados can spot anything Stobart by the numbers on the doors and I have had my truck photographed by a young lad working at one of the delivery points who clearly wasn’t the full ticket. He was harmless enough though so I chatted with him about his hobby for a few minutes.

They’re not too bad to work for. They are obsessed with the bridge bashing thing (they obviously read TruckNet :stuck_out_tongue: ) a lot of the induction is about vehicle height awareness and someone phones from HQ to check that you have set your height indicator correctly shortly after you set off. Other than that they tend to leave you alone.

I do agency work mostly for the following reason. I was tipping in Muller at Market Drayton a while ago, and while waiting to book in I read a notice on the wall about annual leave, which told drivers when they could and could not book holiday. Time off in July or August, forget it, but you can apply to have a week off in November or February if you want and you might get it if you ask nicely, subject to company approval.

Err, well I don’t work like that. I tell the transport industry when I am and am not working, not the other way round. :stuck_out_tongue:

Yes one of many reasons i would not work for ESL is that holiday nonsense ,And many other firms do it .I will always be having August break ,bank holidays and Christmas shut down ,I am 50 next year and have always had my holidays like most ordinary people do…
Perhaps that is why i am not working as a truck driver at the minute ,I just blanked K&N through there own stupid insistance on shifts i did not want etc etc .I wont be treated like that.It is not a problem to me as i gladly drive a transit van or a sprinter for more cash and less agro …

I did think of the co op contract ,But honestly i just think they are a junk firm.Fair play to anyone who puts up with it though …
And yes i fully understand why people work for agencies,Especially you . ,I just do not like the way agencies went from helping with holiday cover/ temping paying a descent rate above firms pay etc to basically running the full shabbaing , basically ruining workers full time prospects and rights in doing so .The haulage industry is its own worst enemy in my opinion.The shortages in Hgv drivers are directly from poor paying firms penny pinching pound stupid run by greedy grasping accountant types and treating good honest grafters like morons .Its a joke industry …
I love trucks but sod that :grimacing:

Yes, I don’t understand it myself. Hauliers refuse to pay drivers £10 an hour, so nobody will work for them, so they end up paying £18 an hour to an agency to get bums on seats. Where is the logic in that?

Harry Monk:
Yes, I don’t understand it myself. Hauliers refuse to pay drivers £10 an hour, so nobody will work for them, so they end up paying £18 an hour to an agency to get bums on seats. Where is the logic in that?

Paying agencies is a tax right off iirc .And far cheaper than full time contracts will cost them …Look at stobarts own agency Hense my comment on accountants running these firms .A self made vicious circle
Of greed and stupidity…Penny pinching pound stupid :unamused: :laughing:

Beetlejuice:

Harry Monk:
Yes, I don’t understand it myself. Hauliers refuse to pay drivers £10 an hour, so nobody will work for them, so they end up paying £18 an hour to an agency to get bums on seats. Where is the logic in that?

Paying agencies is a tax right off iirc .And far cheaper than full time contracts will cost them …Look at stobarts own agency Hense my comment on accountants running these firms .A self made vicious circle
Of greed and stupidity…Penny pinching pound stupid :unamused: :laughing:

It provides flexibility as well. Quiet this week cancel agency. Can’t do that with a full timer. Driver causing “problems” on agency is just not rebooked. A full timer needs sacking and there are hoops to jump through for that these days

Harry Monk:

Beetlejuice:
They’re not too bad to work for. They are obsessed with the bridge bashing thing (they obviously read TruckNet :stuck_out_tongue: ) a lot of the induction is about vehicle height awareness and someone phones from HQ to check that you have set your height indicator correctly shortly after you set off. Other than that they tend to leave you alone.:stuck_out_tongue:

When I was at Newark I got told they are charged £200 per minute from the moment a bridge strike is reported to it ropening so an inspection, repairs and re inspection taking a few hours soon gets expensive

kcrussell25:

Beetlejuice:

Harry Monk:
Yes, I don’t understand it myself. Hauliers refuse to pay drivers £10 an hour, so nobody will work for them, so they end up paying £18 an hour to an agency to get bums on seats. Where is the logic in that?

Paying agencies is a tax right off iirc .And far cheaper than full time contracts will cost them …Look at stobarts own agency Hense my comment on accountants running these firms .A self made vicious circle
Of greed and stupidity…Penny pinching pound stupid :unamused: :laughing:

It provides flexibility as well. Quiet this week cancel agency. Can’t do that with a full timer. Driver causing “problems” on agency is just not rebooked. A full timer needs sacking and there are hoops to jump through for that these days

No good if you have worked for an agency for years and get ill ,They drop you like a bad smell.If full time they cannot do that .
Well they would not have before the agencies ruined it all.We could go round in circles all day talking about the pros and cons of the agencies :wink:

Beetlejuice:
No good if you have worked for an agency for years and get ill ,They drop you like a bad smell.If full time they cannot do that .

The most you can expect if you fall ill when working full time for the vast majority of hauliers is Statutory Sick Pay and any agency will pay that too, since it doesn’t cost them anything.

Harry Monk:

Beetlejuice:
No good if you have worked for an agency for years and get ill ,They drop you like a bad smell.If full time they cannot do that .

The most you can expect if you fall ill when working full time for the vast majority of hauliers is Statutory Sick Pay and any agency will pay that too, since it doesn’t cost them anything.

Agreed unless you are long serving on an old contract very few places pay it other than the specialised sectors

kcrussell25:
When I was at Newark I got told they are charged £200 per minute from the moment a bridge strike is reported to it ropening so an inspection, repairs and re inspection taking a few hours soon gets expensive

That’s approximately what I was told too. I recovered a driver from a strike once and got chatting to the Network Rail guy who said it costs about £10k per hour :blush:

kcrussell25:

Harry Monk:

Beetlejuice:
They’re not too bad to work for. They are obsessed with the bridge bashing thing (they obviously read TruckNet :stuck_out_tongue: ) a lot of the induction is about vehicle height awareness and someone phones from HQ to check that you have set your height indicator correctly shortly after you set off. Other than that they tend to leave you alone.:stuck_out_tongue:

When I was at Newark I got told they are charged £200 per minute from the moment a bridge strike is reported to it ropening so an inspection, repairs and re inspection taking a few hours soon gets expensive

Which is hardly an incentive for a driver who hits a bridge to stop and report it.

Terry T:

kcrussell25:
When I was at Newark I got told they are charged £200 per minute from the moment a bridge strike is reported to it ropening so an inspection, repairs and re inspection taking a few hours soon gets expensive

That’s approximately what I was told too. I recovered a driver from a strike once and got chatting to the Network Rail guy who said it costs about £10k per hour :blush:

sounds about right from my time as a railway signalman the cost depends on the type of line and how busy it is little piddly country line that sees one train an hour costs around £100 per hour express mainline heavily used can be any thing upto £1000 a minute .iirc the selby crash where the car and trailer came of the bridge and crashed into the train was costing just over £300 a minuit in delay costs by the time the incident was closed out the delays showing on the computer were over one million mins !

and if the east european drivers do all bugger off home get ready for an influx of indian and chinese drivers to replace them as the govt cant ■■■■ off their backers in the haulage industry

Terry T:

kcrussell25:
When I was at Newark I got told they are charged £200 per minute from the moment a bridge strike is reported to it ropening so an inspection, repairs and re inspection taking a few hours soon gets expensive

That’s approximately what I was told too. I recovered a driver from a strike once and got chatting to the Network Rail guy who said it costs about £10k per hour :blush:

And that is just the cost to the rail company.
The cost to the broader economy is way much more in lost (& taxeble) revenue.

muckles:

Mazzer2:

muckles:
To all of you who think a sudden exodus of East European drivers will mean the Haulage Industry will suddenly and radically improve pay and conditions might be disappointed.

I think you’ll find that the Haulage Industry leaders will go and bang on the door of Number 10 and tell them that the economy will grind to a halt as there is a “Driver Shortage” :unamused: and to solve this they must be allowed to bring in drivers from other countries, this is despite there being enough people in this country with both an HGV licence and DCPC to cover any claimed shortfall by the industry. :confused:

While I agree with what you are saying the last time the Haulage industry went cap in hand to the government moaning about a driver shortage the commons select committee told them to do one as the shortage was mainly down to the way they operate and so was self inflicted. So it is not a given that they will be given a sympathetic hearing.

I hope you’re right, I did read the Select Committee report and was quite refreshing to see that the industry couldn’t pull the wool over their eyes,

Conclusions and recommendations
A Driver shortage?
1.
We believe that the driver shortage is a shortage of people willing to work in the
sector rather than a shortage of people with the right qualifications and licences.
It seems to us that the apparent shortage will get worse unless action is taken to
improve retention and increase recruitment. (Paragraph 24)
2.
We conclude that there is no single cause for the driver shortage but a combination
of a number of factors make the job less attractive than it was. It is imperative that
the industry takes steps to improve the terms and conditions so it can recruit and
retain the drivers it needs. The industry will need to invest more in recruitment,
training and driver welfare following years of under-investment. We acknowledge
that this is challenging for many of the smaller operators, especially given the very
tight margins operators face. To improve conditions it will be necessary to address
the inadequate facilities provided currently for drivers. It will also be necessary
to promote the sector better in schools and colleges. We are also concerned about
the terms and conditions under which some agency drivers are required to work.
(Paragraph 32)
3.
The driver shortage has resulted in a dependence on agency and particularly foreign
drivers that goes beyond what is needed to cope with seasonal variations and is now
necessary to sustain normal operation. The dependence on agency staff means that
operators in the sector are probably not investing enough in their staff. We think
this creates two risks that need to be managed. First, if the UK becomes relatively
less attractive as a place for foreign drivers to work, the shortage could become
much more acute, possibly quite rapidly. Second, the longer-term sustainability of
the UK’s road haulage sector could be undermined if there is not a steady stream
of people through the sector gaining the skills and experience that they need to
become transport managers and operators. (Paragraph 41)

but I believe in that case the industry was asking for money, not sure whether they’d be so worried if it was just getting more drivers from elsewhere.

standard.co.uk/news/politic … 70941.html
bbc.com/news/business-45136390

After Brexit can the Gov afford any accusations from industry (whether justified or not) of labour shortages? To make it a success for industry may mean a loss for workers.
The CBI says “the answer was to shift away from numbers and instead to focus on who could benefit the UK. This need not just be high earners, but anyone who could contribute”.
Gove was talking about agricultural workers to an audience of farmers, but it`s easy to see which way the wind is blowing. Those who think Brexit means a warm halcyon breeze, may be in for a cold shock.

‘IF’ we get a Brexit worthy of the word, (which looks increasingly unlikely so cheerio fake tory party), the difference will be we the electorate have the ability to sack those who would ruin out country.
Yes OK its ruined already to a great extent and the demongraphic (not a typo) time bomb is primed and counting down, but again ‘IF’ the electorate have the sense, and stop listening to the MSM spouting the propaganda of the likes of the CBI various bought and paid for politicians and other vested interests, then whats coming can be delayed for a few generations more.

Breath not held.

Even if we get a Brexit worth the name, it will take several years, and possibly several general elections before the necessary changes can be effected, but there is something looming which is going to throw the mother of all spanners into the works, and that is the coming downturn, which is coming whatever happens.

Our problem this time is a totally unmanageable welfare state, sizeable benefactors of which are a rapidly increasing number who will never be the nett contributors to the country’s piggy bank that those on the left asserted would be the case.
The welfare state and those it attracts by the hundreds of thousands is the great elephant in the room, and few have the guts to stand up and say what must be said let alone anyone with the power to alter things, so the elephant grows at an exponential rate.

We haven’t touched on the way these elephants have altered the very fabric of this country, something else that has massive costs which again are not to be spoken of, and not just in monetary terms.
Only history (unfortunately written and edited by those in power, the victors, at any given time) given the benefit of time will be able to see what was our best option, whether we will fare the next great recession better on our own or we should have stayed under EU (German) rule and gone down with the rest of the Euro ship, will be debated for generations to come.
That debate sadly will be quite academic, because the damage to this country which will yield what is coming is irreversible, Nu Labour Blair and his henchmen are the main culprits, but followed by a pointless demi son in the form of Vanished Cameron and another pointless EU shill in May.

As Peter Hitchens oft quotes, it’s only the obituary of the country that is now being written.

Brexit or no Brexit, this country will never revert to the once free Jerusalem i was fortunate enough to grow up in, that has gone, politicians both here and elsewhere have destroyed it (and without a shot being fired in defence) the future for our children will not be about petty things like wages due to peaceful genuine working people being imported, it will be about our children’s children survival in a country still worthy of the name.

Harry Monk:

kcrussell25:

Harry Monk:

Beetlejuice:
They’re not too bad to work for. They are obsessed with the bridge bashing thing (they obviously read TruckNet :stuck_out_tongue: ) a lot of the induction is about vehicle height awareness and someone phones from HQ to check that you have set your height indicator correctly shortly after you set off. Other than that they tend to leave you alone.:stuck_out_tongue:

When I was at Newark I got told they are charged £200 per minute from the moment a bridge strike is reported to it ropening so an inspection, repairs and re inspection taking a few hours soon gets expensive

Which is hardly an incentive for a driver who hits a bridge to stop and report it.

If he reports it, the company pays the “fine”, and the driver gets sacked as a “worst possible outcome”. No loss of licence, no fine, and no compensation to pay.
If he DOESN’T report it, and worse- he’s self-employed with his own insurance - he’ll find that his behaviour somehow “invalidates” that insurance, leaving him facing likely bankruptcty - and that’s assuming he’s got a house to have taken away from him…

Hit a bridge, Face the music - and off to the jobcenter. With an unendorsed licence, he’ll be starting his new job the following week at the latest. :neutral_face:

Juddian:
‘IF’ we get a Brexit worthy of the word, (which looks increasingly unlikely so cheerio fake tory party), the difference will be we the electorate have the ability to sack those who would ruin out country.
Yes OK its ruined already to a great extent and the demongraphic (not a typo) time bomb is primed and counting down, but again ‘IF’ the electorate have the sense, and stop listening to the MSM spouting the propaganda of the likes of the CBI various bought and paid for politicians and other vested interests, then whats coming can be delayed for a few generations more.

Breath not held.

Even if we get a Brexit worth the name, it will take several years, and possibly several general elections before the necessary changes can be effected, but there is something looming which is going to throw the mother of all spanners into the works, and that is the coming downturn, which is coming whatever happens.

Our problem this time is a totally unmanageable welfare state, sizeable benefactors of which are a rapidly increasing number who will never be the nett contributors to the country’s piggy bank that those on the left asserted would be the case.
The welfare state and those it attracts by the hundreds of thousands is the great elephant in the room, and few have the guts to stand up and say what must be said let alone anyone with the power to alter things, so the elephant grows at an exponential rate.

We haven’t touched on the way these elephants have altered the very fabric of this country, something else that has massive costs which again are not to be spoken of, and not just in monetary terms.
Only history (unfortunately written and edited by those in power, the victors, at any given time) given the benefit of time will be able to see what was our best option, whether we will fare the next great recession better on our own or we should have stayed under EU (German) rule and gone down with the rest of the Euro ship, will be debated for generations to come.
That debate sadly will be quite academic, because the damage to this country which will yield what is coming is irreversible, Nu Labour Blair and his henchmen are the main culprits, but followed by a pointless demi son in the form of Vanished Cameron and another pointless EU shill in May.

As Peter Hitchens oft quotes, it’s only the obituary of the country that is now being written.

Brexit or no Brexit, this country will never revert to the once free Jerusalem i was fortunate enough to grow up in, that has gone, politicians both here and elsewhere have destroyed it (and without a shot being fired in defence) the future for our children will not be about petty things like wages due to peaceful genuine working people being imported, it will be about our children’s children survival in a country still worthy of the name.

One of the side effects of “Rule by the EU” has upon the UK - is that only Left, Center Left, and Liberal parties are permitted to run in UK elections. There is no limit to the amount of “overseas funding” that can be given to assist our Westminster Establishment on BOTH sides of the house - to prevent the widespread election of “minor” parties of any sort - except Pro-EU “Nationalist” Parties of course… Sinn Fein, SNP, Plaid Cymru… but not a resurgant Right-Wing Conservative Party, UKIP, EDL, BNP, or even any independent Right of Karl Marx.

We are where we are with Brexit - because the 52% that voted for it - were tricked into voting Mainstream (as I was last year) - through “fear of the other mainstream side winning”.

“None of the above” voters will be told “Vote or one of the extreme parties gets in” meaning anyone bar Labour and Libdem/Conservative of course… There was little enough desire for a Majority Conservative government at the last election - that Theresa May lost what little majority she inherited from Cameron having sliced up UKIP for her already. She attempted to slice UKIP up again (to flog a dead horse) only to have around 3m UKIP voters from 2015 go to Labour rather than the 500k (including myself) that held their collective noses, and reluctantly supported Theresa May “or else we get Corbyn”…

Well, at the next election - I’m not afraid of Corbyn any more. As it stands, in any “early election” - I’ll be voting UKIP if Brexit isn’t completed by that point.
If it IS completed, I’ll vote for the party that did that.

That means having voted Libdem more often than for any other party - I can safely say that there is a 0% chance I’ll be voting Libdem then! :stuck_out_tongue:

Franglais:
After Brexit can the Gov afford any accusations from industry (whether justified or not) of labour shortages? To make it a success for industry may mean a loss for workers.
The CBI says “the answer was to shift away from numbers and instead to focus on who could benefit the UK. This need not just be high earners, but anyone who could contribute”.
Gove was talking about agricultural workers to an audience of farmers, but it`s easy to see which way the wind is blowing. Those who think Brexit means a warm halcyon breeze, may be in for a cold shock.

Anybody who believes the mere fact Brexit happens will mean happy times for the ordinary worker is living in a fantasy land. The same people with the same policies operate in Brussels and Westminster, as do the same powerful lobby groups.

If we want to change things we have to get political, its why the Labour party was formed to give the ordinary workers a political voice, but sadly they seem to have abandoned that principle and have been hijacked by an elite who have no knowledge of ordinary work and little interest in discussing the concerns of ordinary people, instead labelling them racists or xenophobic when they don’t agree with their own opinion.

If he reports it, the company pays the “fine”, and the driver gets sacked as a “worst possible outcome”. No loss of licence, no fine, and no compensation to pay.
If he DOESN’T report it, and worse- he’s self-employed with his own insurance - he’ll find that his behaviour somehow “invalidates” that insurance, leaving him facing likely bankruptcty - and that’s assuming he’s got a house to have taken away from him…

Hit a bridge, Face the music - and off to the jobcenter. With an unendorsed licence, he’ll be starting his new job the following week at the latest. :neutral_face:
[/quote]
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
mabey im reading this wrong,but the norm for being caught after scratching a bridge is 3 or 6 points,at least a few hundred quid out of pocket,and in some cases a possible 6 month in jail ectect■■?