madmackem:
Some interesting figures. Only 14%, I thought it was higher than that.
Whilst it is 14% overall at some companies it can be most of their workforce. Certainly at Fowler Welch at Spalding it seemed to be, the drivers waiting room seemingly only having native english speakers when visiting drivers from subbies turned up.
Nearly every company in Spalding is majority foreign drivers. Mainly due to the pay in the area
Not just pay, most of the workforce in the area is from other shores, Christ knows what impact any serious changes after brexit will make. I’m not thinking of the workers, more the agricultural companies and surrounding businesses such as shops etc, some workers will have been here for years on and off, it’s not as if there is a like for like replacement workforce from the local youth!?!
Not wanting to take it too far off topic but what happens to companies such as Heritage Transport who have Bulgarian registered fleets? Are they going to have to actually contribute to the uk economy and tax system or hopefully go under after ■■■■■■ the transport industry?
I agree there could be issues with workers but hopefully it will stop the locals having an excuse to not do the work.
Also it will hopefully stop people buying houses to rent out as rooms meaning locals can’t get a home for their family
Beetlejuice:
One of the biggest problems are agencies holding wages down for more proffit
The majority of places you go to on agency you’re on more money than their employed drivers. I’ve known just one place in 25 years where employed drivers are on more than agency.
Wrong .The agencies charge the haulage firms far more than they pay the driver .And no they do not pay more ,They use ltd or umbrella scams to make it seem a higher wage .When in fact it works out far lower than paye in the long run .Or is basic math not your strong point .
idrive:
Funny how they call it a “skills shortage” when we are classed as unskilled by Mrs May.
A definition of unskilled workers…
"Unskilled jobs usually do not require formal education and can be performed by the majority of individuals. Due to the fact that their jobs do not require high levels of education or training, unskilled workers tend to earn lower than average salaries when compared to other workers. Jobs performed by unskilled workers are sometimes labeled “blue collar” jobs by mainstream society. Unskilled workers often work in environments where they are exposed to unsafe conditions on a regular basis."
Can anyone tell me what part of the above does not apply to truck drivers?
Okay - the bit I cut off - An unskilled worker is an employee who does not use reasoning or intellectual abilities in their line of work.
may not apply to many drivers, but employers are trying hard to make it so.
Truck driving is semi-skilled at best.
Its the same as a machinest. If you dont turn the wheel at the right time the job is buggered.
Beetlejuice:
One of the biggest problems are agencies holding wages down for more proffit
The majority of places you go to on agency you’re on more money than their employed drivers. I’ve known just one place in 25 years where employed drivers are on more than agency.
Wrong .The agencies charge the haulage firms far more than they pay the driver .And no they do not pay more ,They use ltd or umbrella scams to make it seem a higher wage .When in fact it works out far lower than paye in the long run .Or is basic math not your strong point .
I’m on £13 an hour PAYE with an agency and all I do is take an empty container from the Midlands to Southampton and bring a loaded one back every day. I don’t know how much Maritime/ Goldstar pay their drivers but I doubt it’s even £10 an hour.
Beetlejuice:
One of the biggest problems are agencies holding wages down for more proffit
The majority of places you go to on agency you’re on more money than their employed drivers. I’ve known just one place in 25 years where employed drivers are on more than agency.
Wrong .The agencies charge the haulage firms far more than they pay the driver .And no they do not pay more ,They use ltd or umbrella scams to make it seem a higher wage .When in fact it works out far lower than paye in the long run .Or is basic math not your strong point .
I’m on £13 an hour PAYE with an agency and all I do is take an empty container from the Midlands to Southampton and bring a loaded one back every day. I don’t know how much Maritime/ Goldstar pay their drivers but I doubt it’s even £10 an hour.
I am in £14 per hour paye (including holiday pay rolled up) not umbrella or ltd doing containers for Stobarts very similar to Harry and I am on far more than the Stobarts employed drivers, even allowing for the holiday pay.
I agree that the agency will be charging more to Stobarts
Some struggle to drive around London… Others struggle to work 15 hour shifts… Then there’s those who would rather stick pins in their eyes than work nights.
Beetlejuice:
One of the biggest problems are agencies holding wages down for more proffit
The majority of places you go to on agency you’re on more money than their employed drivers. I’ve known just one place in 25 years where employed drivers are on more than agency.
Wrong .The agencies charge the haulage firms far more than they pay the driver .And no they do not pay more ,They use ltd or umbrella scams to make it seem a higher wage .When in fact it works out far lower than paye in the long run .Or is basic math not your strong point .
I’m on £13 an hour PAYE with an agency and all I do is take an empty container from the Midlands to Southampton and bring a loaded one back every day. I don’t know how much Maritime/ Goldstar pay their drivers but I doubt it’s even £10 an hour.
Instead of trying to argue the toss ,I just want to make this a little simpler (P.s Harry you told me much less at encore a while back) Ahem .Or did i read it wrong ? Lets clear this up above .My reply was about Ltd mainly ,A LOT do not offer proper PAYE !And Agencies are keeping rates down low .They take nearer £20 to pay you £14 ltd .Haulage firms pay you £10-12.50 for example (And they pay more really as they pay your pension ,Hols ins stamp etc )
Agencies :-
Mainly it will be LTD OR UMBRELLA .So win win agency, lose lose driver,security , accounting fees , and goodbye holiday pay etc …
Hey it suits some .
There are firms who pay upto and over £14 paye who do not advertise
And will not use parasites .yeah most are £9 -11.50 ish …
So summing up ,if you use agency to work:-
You will more than likely not get 12 months work (Reply after Christmas ?) Lots know i am right ,Some will get by ,Others will drift on in the boat .
In my opinion they are controlling the labour market far more than they should be allowed to.
kcrussell25
Sorry i cannot seem to reply
You are on nights and getting £14 paye ?with real holiday pay and taxes and insurances paid properly ,I am yet to see an agency who pay £12 let alone £14 PROPER PAYE
Could you share who they are ?
To all of you who think a sudden exodus of East European drivers will mean the Haulage Industry will suddenly and radically improve pay and conditions might be disappointed.
I think you’ll find that the Haulage Industry leaders will go and bang on the door of Number 10 and tell them that the economy will grind to a halt as there is a “Driver Shortage” and to solve this they must be allowed to bring in drivers from other countries, this is despite there being enough people in this country with both an HGV licence and DCPC to cover any claimed shortfall by the industry.
muckles:
To all of you who think a sudden exodus of East European drivers will mean the Haulage Industry will suddenly and radically improve pay and conditions might be disappointed.
I think you’ll find that the Haulage Industry leaders will go and bang on the door of Number 10 and tell them that the economy will grind to a halt as there is a “Driver Shortage” and to solve this they must be allowed to bring in drivers from other countries, this is despite there being enough people in this country with both an HGV licence and DCPC to cover any claimed shortfall by the industry.
muckles:
To all of you who think a sudden exodus of East European drivers will mean the Haulage Industry will suddenly and radically improve pay and conditions might be disappointed.
I think you’ll find that the Haulage Industry leaders will go and bang on the door of Number 10 and tell them that the economy will grind to a halt as there is a “Driver Shortage” and to solve this they must be allowed to bring in drivers from other countries, this is despite there being enough people in this country with both an HGV licence and DCPC to cover any claimed shortfall by the industry.
While I agree with what you are saying the last time the Haulage industry went cap in hand to the government moaning about a driver shortage the commons select committee told them to do one as the shortage was mainly down to the way they operate and so was self inflicted. So it is not a given that they will be given a sympathetic hearing.
muckles:
To all of you who think a sudden exodus of East European drivers will mean the Haulage Industry will suddenly and radically improve pay and conditions might be disappointed.
I think you’ll find that the Haulage Industry leaders will go and bang on the door of Number 10 and tell them that the economy will grind to a halt as there is a “Driver Shortage” and to solve this they must be allowed to bring in drivers from other countries, this is despite there being enough people in this country with both an HGV licence and DCPC to cover any claimed shortfall by the industry.
While I agree with what you are saying the last time the Haulage industry went cap in hand to the government moaning about a driver shortage the commons select committee told them to do one as the shortage was mainly down to the way they operate and so was self inflicted. So it is not a given that they will be given a sympathetic hearing.
I hope you’re right, I did read the Select Committee report and was quite refreshing to see that the industry couldn’t pull the wool over their eyes,
Conclusions and recommendations
A Driver shortage?
1. We believe that the driver shortage is a shortage of people willing to work in the sector rather than a shortage of people with the right qualifications and licences.
It seems to us that the apparent shortage will get worse unless action is taken to
improve retention and increase recruitment. (Paragraph 24)
2.
We conclude that there is no single cause for the driver shortage but a combination
of a number of factors make the job less attractive than it was. It is imperative that the industry takes steps to improve the terms and conditions so it can recruit and retain the drivers it needs. The industry will need to invest more in recruitment, training and driver welfare following years of under-investment. We acknowledge
that this is challenging for many of the smaller operators, especially given the very
tight margins operators face. To improve conditions it will be necessary to address
the inadequate facilities provided currently for drivers. It will also be necessary
to promote the sector better in schools and colleges. We are also concerned about
the terms and conditions under which some agency drivers are required to work.
(Paragraph 32)
3. The driver shortage has resulted in a dependence on agency and particularly foreign drivers that goes beyond what is needed to cope with seasonal variations and is now
necessary to sustain normal operation. The dependence on agency staff means that operators in the sector are probably not investing enough in their staff. We think
this creates two risks that need to be managed. First, if the UK becomes relatively
less attractive as a place for foreign drivers to work, the shortage could become
much more acute, possibly quite rapidly. Second, the longer-term sustainability of
the UK’s road haulage sector could be undermined if there is not a steady stream
of people through the sector gaining the skills and experience that they need to
become transport managers and operators. (Paragraph 41)
but I believe in that case the industry was asking for money, not sure whether they’d be so worried if it was just getting more drivers from elsewhere.
Beetlejuice:
with real holiday pay and taxes and insurances paid properly ,I am yet to see an agency who pay £12 let alone £14 PROPER PAYE
I am PAYE agency, £12p/h mon to fri, rising to £13.50 after 4 pm
Brilliant ,Who are they ?
extra recruitment
I think quite a few agencies are moving back to PAYE options now
Extra drivers
Thanks.I have avoided agencies all my life .
but that seems reasonable ,In my opinion if a recruiter cannot offer
Real in house paye they should not be trading .
andy187:
I think quite a few agencies are moving back to PAYE options now
I have the option of working PAYE or Ltd Co and the latter pays £2 an hour more but it’s not worth the hassle and losing the holiday pay, especially as HMRC seem to be taking a rather dim view of it nowadays. Virtually everywhere I get placed I’m offered a permanent job but that just wouldn’t fit in with my lifestyle, particularly in only working six months a year.
Beetlejuice:
kcrussell25
Sorry i cannot seem to reply
You are on nights and getting £14 paye ?with real holiday pay and taxes and insurances paid properly ,I am yet to see an agency who pay £12 let alone £14 PROPER PAYE
Could you share who they are ?
Edit ,Is £14 weekend nights ?It must be ?
No that is week day nights. I do Monday to Friday nights. Weekend nights are extra but not sure what as I don’t do them.
Zest recruitment, deal with a guy called Gerry. If you want I will pm his phone number?
and to solve this they must be allowed to bring in drivers from other countries, this is despite there being enough people in this country with both an HGV licence and DCPC to cover any claimed shortfall by the industry. 