shullbit:
It’s just not on, they are interupting a rest period, I used to work for a comapany on Merseyside who used to do this, they would ring you up at say 8 o clock at night to tell you that you was starting at 3 o clock in the morning, i left but i was told a few years after i left that they got in bother for this.
That was my point to the guy who thought it funny to take the ■■■■ out of the o/p.
shullbit:
It’s just not on, they are interupting a rest period, I used to work for a comapany on Merseyside who used to do this, they would ring you up at say 8 o clock at night to tell you that you was starting at 3 o clock in the morning, i left but i was told a few years after i left that they got in bother for this.
Let me guess it wasn’t a 4pm finish the previous shift.
robroy:
Did I dream it (I have some weird dreams btw
) or did Stobbies in N. Ireland drivers once make a case of this,.and Stobbies got a bit of agg over it from DVSA.
Forget about the texting, tell me more about your dreams… 
LazyDriver:
robroy:
Did I dream it (I have some weird dreams btwForget about the texting, tell me more about your dreams…
Is this one of Rob’s dreams?
reuters.com/article/us-socc … SKBN2C133Z
Or nightmares?
“On call rules for EU drivers.
Drivers who are on call during any period of legally required rest must at all times be able to dispose of the rest time as they choose. This means that an employer cannot impose any limitations on drivers during such periods, for example requiring them to remain in or close to home or at another location. Drivers must be able to dispose of their free time as they choose (but this does not include undertaking any work where they are under the control of or are fulfilling an obligation to an employer). Being on call may only extend as far as a driver agreeing to answer a call during a rest period but only if the driver so chooses. On receiving a call to return to work drivers may only do so if they have completed the legally required amount of rest or if the work is deemed to be an emergency”
Seems legal to receive calls even if on daily rest period.
Franglais:
Seems legal to receive calls even if on daily rest period.
The way I read it, the problem here is not the receiving of calls, but the need to await and handle instructions which specify the next time of attendance.
The nature of these instructions means they cannot simply be dealt with once the rest period is over, but themselves actually determine the length of the rest period, and are being provided only after the rest period has begun.
Since these interruptions are planned and routine, the authorities are unlikely to tolerate it as de minimis, as they might if it happened as an exceptional event or courtesy call, but as part of performing the basic work duties.
The picture in my mind is this. An employer could notify a driver of his next start time shortly after the end of his shift but whilst the driver was still awake, but in doing so they would probably violate the hours’ rules (unless the interruption complied with the “split rest” provision, which means the notification is no less than 9 hours before starting, and the overall rest no less than 12 hours).
Alternatively, an employer could notify the driver but make it clear that they didn’t expect the notification to be handled until 11 hours after the previous shift, but the following day’s work (for the purposes of the hours’ rules) would then begin at the moment of handling the instructions to return to the work site, so the amount of time remaining in the 24-hour window for the employer’s use, could be severely curtailed, as any time between dealing with the notification and attending site would not be counted as daily rest.
Notify whenever you want.
But I won’t see it if I’m asleep.
Rjan:
Franglais:
Seems legal to receive calls even if on daily rest period.The way I read it, the problem here is not the receiving of calls, but the need to await and handle instructions which specify the next time of attendance.
The nature of these instructions means they cannot simply be dealt with once the rest period is over, but themselves actually determine the length of the rest period, and are being provided only after the rest period has begun.
Since these interruptions are planned and routine, the authorities are unlikely to tolerate it as de minimis, as they might if it happened as an exceptional event or courtesy call, but as part of performing the basic work duties.
The picture in my mind is this. An employer could notify a driver of his next start time shortly after the end of his shift but whilst the driver was still awake, but in doing so they would probably violate the hours’ rules (unless the interruption complied with the “split rest” provision, which means the notification is no less than 9 hours before starting, and the overall rest no less than 12 hours).
Alternatively, an employer could notify the driver but make it clear that they didn’t expect the notification to be handled until 11 hours after the previous shift, but the following day’s work (for the purposes of the hours’ rules) would then begin at the moment of handling the instructions to return to the work site, so the amount of time remaining in the 24-hour window for the employer’s use, could be severely curtailed, as any time between dealing with the notification and attending site would not be counted as daily rest.
Good point. Being “On call” and possibly able to attend work directly, as sufficient daily rest has been taken, is different to habitually interrupting a daily rest.
Edit
However anyone saying
"My rest has been interrupted by a call or text, so I’m restarting my 11 off, is likely in the wrong "…?
Keep phone on silent, return missed calls when I wake up after having a coffee/toilet etc. If you get texted daily with your starting time you might as well pack it and go agency for possibly more ££?
Last week I was playing on my phone got a call from work asking if I wanted to do OT. No complaints from me in that case 
Jesus. How do some people manage to gain employment
Rjan:
Franglais:
Seems legal to receive calls even if on daily rest period.The way I read it, the problem here is not the receiving of calls, but the need to await and handle instructions which specify the next time of attendance.
The nature of these instructions means they cannot simply be dealt with once the rest period is over, but themselves actually determine the length of the rest period, and are being provided only after the rest period has begun.
Since these interruptions are planned and routine, the authorities are unlikely to tolerate it as de minimis, as they might if it happened as an exceptional event or courtesy call, but as part of performing the basic work duties.
The picture in my mind is this. An employer could notify a driver of his next start time shortly after the end of his shift but whilst the driver was still awake, but in doing so they would probably violate the hours’ rules (unless the interruption complied with the “split rest” provision, which means the notification is no less than 9 hours before starting, and the overall rest no less than 12 hours).
Alternatively, an employer could notify the driver but make it clear that they didn’t expect the notification to be handled until 11 hours after the previous shift, but the following day’s work (for the purposes of the hours’ rules) would then begin at the moment of handling the instructions to return to the work site, so the amount of time remaining in the 24-hour window for the employer’s use, could be severely curtailed, as any time between dealing with the notification and attending site would not be counted as daily rest.
Why would they need to call a driver during his daily rest period if it’s not to force a reduced daily rest period.
IE in exactly what circumstances would they need to call within 11 hours of previous finish time unless they want him to start in less than 11 hours from the start of his daily rest period.
So a 4 am start should obviously be notified to the driver by 5pm the previous day at the latest.If not that’s obviously an enforced reduced daily rest period which is what this all seems about to me if not it would obviously be a non issue because the driver would know by 5 pm if it’s a 4 am start by default of the 11 hour daily rest period.
Carryfast:
Why would they need to call a driver during his daily rest period if it’s not to force a reduced daily rest period.
IE in exactly what circumstances would they need to call within 11 hours of previous finish time unless they want him to start in less than 11 hours from the start of his daily rest period.
So a 4 am start should obviously be notified to the driver by 5pm the previous day at the latest.If not that’s obviously an enforced reduced daily rest period which is what this all seems about to me if not it would obviously be a non issue because the driver would know by 5 pm if it’s a 4 am start by default of the 11 hour daily rest period.
I think you may need to read up (go on - Google it) on what a “Reduced Daily Rest” actually means, as you clearly don’t understand it.
As for the first question:
Driver finishes his shift at 2pm, fully expecting to be starting his next shift at 7am the following day, so he plans his evening so as to allow him to get to bed around 10pm, ensuring he can get 8 hours’ sleep before having a S,S&S and driving to work. However, as the plan for the next day’s runs is assembled later that evening, it becomes apparent that they actually need him to start at 4am, so they send him a text at 8pm effectively saying “You really should have been in bed an hour ago…”.
Roymondo:
Carryfast:
Why would they need to call a driver during his daily rest period if it’s not to force a reduced daily rest period.
IE in exactly what circumstances would they need to call within 11 hours of previous finish time unless they want him to start in less than 11 hours from the start of his daily rest period.
So a 4 am start should obviously be notified to the driver by 5pm the previous day at the latest.If not that’s obviously an enforced reduced daily rest period which is what this all seems about to me if not it would obviously be a non issue because the driver would know by 5 pm if it’s a 4 am start by default of the 11 hour daily rest period.I think you may need to read up (go on - Google it) on what a “Reduced Daily Rest” actually means, as you clearly don’t understand it.
As for the first question:
Driver finishes his shift at 2pm, fully expecting to be starting his next shift at 7am the following day, so he plans his evening so as to allow him to get to bed around 10pm, ensuring he can get 8 hours’ sleep before having a S,S&S and driving to work. However, as the plan for the next day’s runs is assembled later that evening, it becomes apparent that they actually need him to start at 4am, so they send him a text at 8pm effectively saying “You really should have been in bed an hour ago…”.
Where in the real world would anyone finish at 2 pm with an expected start time of 7 am.
A reduced daily rest period is 9 hours.
11 hours with a start time of 4 am would mean finished by 5 pm at the latest also obviously knowing the 4 am start time by that point.Which part have I not understood.
Roymondo:
Carryfast:
Why would they need to call a driver during his daily rest period if it’s not to force a reduced daily rest period.
IE in exactly what circumstances would they need to call within 11 hours of previous finish time unless they want him to start in less than 11 hours from the start of his daily rest period.
So a 4 am start should obviously be notified to the driver by 5pm the previous day at the latest.If not that’s obviously an enforced reduced daily rest period which is what this all seems about to me if not it would obviously be a non issue because the driver would know by 5 pm if it’s a 4 am start by default of the 11 hour daily rest period.I think you may need to read up (go on - Google it) on what a “Reduced Daily Rest” actually means, as you clearly don’t understand it.
As for the first question:
Driver finishes his shift at 2pm, fully expecting to be starting his next shift at 7am the following day, so he plans his evening so as to allow him to get to bed around 10pm, ensuring he can get 8 hours’ sleep before having a S,S&S and driving to work. However, as the plan for the next day’s runs is assembled later that evening, it becomes apparent that they actually need him to start at 4am, so they send him a text at 8pm effectively saying “You really should have been in bed an hour ago…”.
Or a text could equally be sent saying
“Your 04hr00 start, is now 07hr00”.
No reason to assume loads are always ready when expected, and delays are common.
Franglais:
Roymondo:
Carryfast:
Why would they need to call a driver during his daily rest period if it’s not to force a reduced daily rest period.
IE in exactly what circumstances would they need to call within 11 hours of previous finish time unless they want him to start in less than 11 hours from the start of his daily rest period.
So a 4 am start should obviously be notified to the driver by 5pm the previous day at the latest.If not that’s obviously an enforced reduced daily rest period which is what this all seems about to me if not it would obviously be a non issue because the driver would know by 5 pm if it’s a 4 am start by default of the 11 hour daily rest period.I think you may need to read up (go on - Google it) on what a “Reduced Daily Rest” actually means, as you clearly don’t understand it.
As for the first question:
Driver finishes his shift at 2pm, fully expecting to be starting his next shift at 7am the following day, so he plans his evening so as to allow him to get to bed around 10pm, ensuring he can get 8 hours’ sleep before having a S,S&S and driving to work. However, as the plan for the next day’s runs is assembled later that evening, it becomes apparent that they actually need him to start at 4am, so they send him a text at 8pm effectively saying “You really should have been in bed an hour ago…”.
Or a text could equally be sent saying
“Your 04hr00 start, is now 07hr00”.
No reason to assume loads are always ready when expected, and delays are common.
If the guvnor doesn’t know whether he’ll start at 4am or 7am it’s obvious that the driver would have needed to finish by 5pm the previous shift to keep the 4am option open and the driver would know/need to know that at worse he could be called in to start at 4am instead of 7am at that point.
It’s also obvious that a 2pm finish could technically result in being called in to start at 1am all else being equal.
At which point it might be legal but the body clock says no.
I don’t think there’s any illusions as to what the issue is really all about.
Drivers being expected to start at whatever time of day or night the guvnor wants based on a reduced daily rest regime.
Complying with the hours regs doesn’t trump a dangerous driving charge based on driving while tired.
Night-and-day:
Jesus. How do some people manage to gain employment
or keep it once they have it .
Carryfast:
Where in the real world would anyone finish at 2 pm with an expected start time of 7 am.
Where I’m at. Well maybe not 7am but definitely 6.30am. Sometimes you can be finished earlier than 2pm with that as a start time the following morning, often it depends on what run your unit is on that night.
Conor:
Carryfast:
Where in the real world would anyone finish at 2 pm with an expected start time of 7 am.Where I’m at. Well maybe not 7am but definitely 6.30am. Sometimes you can be finished earlier than 2pm with that as a start time the following morning, often it depends on what run your unit is on that night.
Let’s get this right.Finished at 2pm why would anyone have an issue with starting at 4 am let alone 7 am the following shift.The body clock is obviously going to be set differently to that of finishing at 6 pm.The clue is in the weird finish time.
I don’t buy it.
My guess is they want a finish time of let’s say 6pm and be expected to start at let’s say 4am by way of a phone call at let’s say 7 pm.
It’s an enforced reduced daily rest scam. 
All thats asked from both sides is to be reasonable.
This comes under Duty of Care, if by being unreasonable in disturbing a drivers rest periods they could contribute to a serious accicent.
Whilst this might seem far fetched even humourous to some here, in the aftermath of a serious accident where a driver’s tiredness is found to be a contributory factor, historical record (texts, phone calls) showing this to be established practice could well see TMs and directors joining a surviving lorry driver in the dock.
Juddian:
in the aftermath of a serious accident where a driver’s tiredness is found to be a contributory factor, historical record (texts, phone calls) showing this to be established practice could well see TMs and directors joining a surviving lorry driver in the dock.
Except we all know that the system will be weighted heavily in favour of the bosses v the poor mug driver.The point is complying with the hours regs in the form of reduced daily rest on demand, which is what this is probably all about, isn’t a get out of jail free card regarding driving while tired. 