I don’t wanna start shouting and going all “barrack room lawyer”, but how would that work?
Disciplined for refusing to take an insecure load? Sacked for refusing to break the law?
Some bosses are gobby bullies, who will pressure younger inexperienced drivers who, being new starts, have little employment protection. Such is our world. It ain’t easy to risk getting chucked out of a new job, tis true.
But as the risk of getting a tug and a fine will increase, attitudes will (slowly) change.
A few “O” Licence restrictions for habitual offenders maybe? When the fines start to bite, and earnings are cut, it will open a few eyes.
Pity it always has to be this drawn out for some.
I remember 5 years ago all this hysteria about strapping bog roll, getting pulled, getting fined, etc, and I saw an increase in drivers strapping stuff. But nothing ever came of it. It won’t this time. It’ll be a short term purge at best.
ezydriver:
I remember 5 years ago all this hysteria about strapping bog roll, getting pulled, getting fined, etc, and I saw an increase in drivers strapping stuff. But nothing ever came of it. It won’t this time. It’ll be a short term purge at best.
It’s “hysteria” if you hear of someone else’s fines in an RDC coffee room.
If it’s your bank account the fine comes from it may well have a different name! [WHITE SMILING FACE]
ezydriver:
I remember 5 years ago all this hysteria about strapping bog roll, getting pulled, getting fined, etc, and I saw an increase in drivers strapping stuff. But nothing ever came of it. It won’t this time. It’ll be a short term purge at best.
It’s “hysteria” if you hear of someone else’s fines in an RDC coffee room.
If it’s your bank account the fine comes from it may well have a different name! [WHITE SMILING FACE]
It was indeed 100% the former. In fact, it wasn’t, because there were no fines to speak of. Just RDC and TNUK chatter.
Franglais:
I don’t wanna start shouting and going all “barrack room lawyer”, but how would that work?
Disciplined for refusing to take an insecure load? Sacked for refusing to break the law?
Some bosses are gobby bullies, who will pressure younger inexperienced drivers who, being new starts, have little employment protection. Such is our world. It ain’t easy to risk getting chucked out of a new job, tis true.
But as the risk of getting a tug and a fine will increase, attitudes will (slowly) change.
A few “O” Licence restrictions for habitual offenders maybe? When the fines start to bite, and earnings are cut, it will open a few eyes.
Pity it always has to be this drawn out for some.
Edit. Responding to Dicky Nick.
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It will take a big attitude change for them to see it as being disciplined for an insecure load when so many think that over 20 tons of drinks or tins without a single strap is perfectly fine. The amount of time I see companies like Stobart and Wincanton pull up and open the curtains with loads like this without any load security at all. They clearly deem the load to be secure. So yes “discipline for nit taking an insecure load” in your eyes, in their eyes it’s just a driver moaning about nothing because every other driver doesn’t bother. Where do you go with that one when the minority of drivers wanting to do it right are up against the masses who don’t bother day in day out?
Franglais:
I don’t wanna start shouting and going all “barrack room lawyer”, but how would that work?
Disciplined for refusing to take an insecure load? Sacked for refusing to break the law?
Some bosses are gobby bullies, who will pressure younger inexperienced drivers who, being new starts, have little employment protection. Such is our world. It ain’t easy to risk getting chucked out of a new job, tis true.
But as the risk of getting a tug and a fine will increase, attitudes will (slowly) change.
A few “O” Licence restrictions for habitual offenders maybe? When the fines start to bite, and earnings are cut, it will open a few eyes.
Pity it always has to be this drawn out for some.
Edit. Responding to Dicky Nick.
Sent from my SM-G361F using Tapatalk
It will take a big attitude change for them to see it as being disciplined for an insecure load when so many think that over 20 tons of drinks or tins without a single strap is perfectly fine. The amount of time I see companies like Stobart and Wincanton pull up and open the curtains with loads like this without any load security at all. They clearly deem the load to be secure. So yes “discipline for nit taking an insecure load” in your eyes, in their eyes it’s just a driver moaning about nothing because every other driver doesn’t bother. Where do you go with that one when the minority of drivers wanting to do it right are up against the masses who don’t bother day in day out?
I hear what you’re saying.
It will take a while to change the attitudes of many drivers and many hauliers. All true.
All we can do is try to protect our own asses as much as possible.
Whether we agree with it or not, DVSA want loads on curtain siders strapping. The problem with this whole load security malarkey is that it’s just bone idle to target drivers and dish out fines, drivers who are often not properly equipped to do things ‘properly’ or given any help in terms of packaging or even just time & space to strap up at the places they collect from. First & foremost, they should be looking at operators & the consignors.
Once we have a situation where drivers actually have a fighting chance, ie. straps & corner protectors freely provided by operators, proper load security systems on trailers, pallets packaged to be strap resistant, accommodation and a culture for strapping up on all sites etc. THEN start pulling drivers because there won’t be a genuine excuse.
There are too many curtainsiders about anyway doing RDC type work with pallets. Why not just use box vans?
Gidders:
As others have said above,I have carried loads similar to this all over UK and Europe including bales of waste without strapping to modern requirements.Never lost a thing.I may have criss crossed pallets or bridged an upper layer but that’s it.On the other hand,as older drivers will recall,I used to do radical stuff like slow down for bends,etc.
That is radical, most drivers are not happy if there are three axles on the floor.
Most paper mills I have loaded from, straps have not been allowed or they have used corners and Signode banding to the bed.
The load in the photo isn’t going to move back or forth, you would have to drive like Limey Phil to lose it over the side.
But unlike Phil. I am pleased to be retired because of all this bull manure
DickyNick:
The amount of time I see companies like Stobart and Wincanton pull up and open the curtains with loads like this without any load security at all. They clearly deem the load to be secure.
So you see “insecure” loads turn up all the time? Does the fact that they are still in the trailer and not scattered all over the countryside not indicate that they are not “insecure”?
It’s ridiculous, the only way to properly secure a load of palletised tinned goods or similar is with a tightly wrapped tarpaulin and you can’t do that with foodstuffs.
Yes the load will shift if you turn the lorry on its side, but ■■■■ happens, you can’t wrap the world in bubble wrap and still have any kind of efficiency. You may save a couple of recovery people from getting a bad back if a lorry overturns, but the rest of the country will have no beans to put on their toast.
DickyNick:
The amount of time I see companies like Stobart and Wincanton pull up and open the curtains with loads like this without any load security at all. They clearly deem the load to be secure.
So you see “insecure” loads turn up all the time? Does the fact that they are still in the trailer and not scattered all over the countryside not indicate that they are not “insecure”?
It’s ridiculous, the only way to properly secure a load of palletised tinned goods or similar is with a tightly wrapped tarpaulin and you can’t do that with foodstuffs.
Yes the load will shift if you turn the lorry on its side, but [zb] happens, you can’t wrap the world in bubble wrap and still have any kind of efficiency. You may save a couple of recovery people from getting a bad back if a lorry overturns, but the rest of the country will have no beans to put on their toast.
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Completely agree. I don’t say it’s insecure, that’s what I know DVSA would say if they had a look on a stop. Pallets don’t fall through curtains loads bearing or not.
newmercman:
It’s not about safety, it’s about generating revenue. End of story.
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It’s simple to play the game and win.
Strap everything no matter how ridiculous. I’m paid by the hour. If the job takes hours longer it’s of no consequence to me. I just earn more money.
If there are not enough straps call the company and make a coffee whilst they send someone out with more. Unless they promise via text/email to pay the fine.
Only the lazy or stupid allow them to generate revenue.
I’m with CF on this. A curtain sider is a flat with weather protection. Strap, rope or chain as applicable. Much better than whingeing on here about getting a fine. It’s a donation, just like speeding.
newmercman:
It’s not about safety, it’s about generating revenue. End of story.
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It’s simple to play the game and win.
Strap everything no matter how ridiculous. I’m paid by the hour. If the job takes hours longer it’s of no consequence to me. I just earn more money.
If there are not enough straps call the company and make a coffee whilst they send someone out with more. Unless they promise via text/email to pay the fine.
Only the lazy or stupid allow them to generate revenue.
And you do one load a day instead of two, your employer loses money, goes skint and you’re out of work. Good plan…
newmercman:
It’s not about safety, it’s about generating revenue. End of story.
Sent from my SM-G950W using Tapatalk
It’s simple to play the game and win.
Strap everything no matter how ridiculous. I’m paid by the hour. If the job takes hours longer it’s of no consequence to me. I just earn more money.
If there are not enough straps call the company and make a coffee whilst they send someone out with more. Unless they promise via text/email to pay the fine.
Only the lazy or stupid allow them to generate revenue.
And you do one load a day instead of two, your employer loses money, goes skint and you’re out of work. Good plan…
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Using that logic - I might as well go over my hours and not bother with a break so the company can make more money. It will keep the company in profit and me in a job. And I’m not really that tired after 4.5 hours driving so I may as well crack on.
The simple fact is that a government agency has set the rules of the game. And we can chose to play within those rules or not. If we don’t we can get money taken off us - or in more serious cases might get a more extreme punishment. As I said if the company say in writing they will pay the fines I’ll happily do what I feel is safe, if not I’m playing the game.
A decent company would charge enough that you have the time to strap the load the way DVSA want and still make a profit. If they don’t it’s absolutely no different to them expecting you to run bent to keep their profit margin acceptable.
No that’s not how it is at all, all this ■■■■■■■■ in the name of safety is just that, a load of ■■■■■■■■.
Anything beyond a hi viz and staying out of areas where machinery is operating is just overkill. You do not need steel toe capped boots to walk into an office carrying a few sheets of paper, you do not need to wear a hard hat with a face guard to open a curtsinsider etc etc etc.
Nor do you need to strap everything down so that it could survive a spell in the world’s largest tumble dryer. A pallet of soft drinks secured by shrink wrap takes some very spirited driving to get it to fall over sideways, to the point that you’ll be needing recovery to put the lorry back on its wheels or drag it out of the field it landed in.
This has been proven beyond any doubt by the lack of lost loads from curtainsided vehicles since they invented curtainsiders. Obviously there are some things that do need securing so they cannot move, anything on wheels, anything that can roll out the side basically, but a pallet of Coca Cola or similar does not. If you can’t push it over by yourself, it ain’t going to fall over unless you’re driving like a complete maniac.
It’s about time the industry stood up for itself and told the DVSA and HSE and the rest of them to poke their ridiculous rules. Its England, not Soviet Russia or ■■■■ Germany ffs.
Shouldn’t vosa make it a requirement that all loads have to be inspected by the driver and secured before departure? No more sealed containers etc… I mean if Road safety is the priority.
adam277:
Shouldn’t vosa make it a requirement that all loads have to be inspected by the driver and secured before departure? No more sealed containers etc… I mean if Road safety is the priority.
Would go down like a lead balloon me thinks.
What have containers got to do with curtainsiders? The big metal container does a good enough job with securing the load from falling out.
With bonded curtainside trailers that I deliver when you pick the trailer up you do inspect and secure the load. The seals are put on at the security gate when you are leaving the site. I’m not sure if that’s standard or not - but I imagine it is.
adam277:
Shouldn’t vosa make it a requirement that all loads have to be inspected by the driver and secured before departure? No more sealed containers etc… I mean if Road safety is the priority.
Would go down like a lead balloon me thinks.
What have containers got to do with curtainsiders? The big metal container does a good enough job with securing the load from falling out.
With bonded curtainside trailers that I deliver when you pick the trailer up you do inspect and secure the load. The seals are put on at the security gate when you are leaving the site. I’m not sure if that’s standard or not - but I imagine it is.
May be asylum seekers in the back with a plasma cutter… Or there may be 20ton giant ball being held down by shoe laces… May be a nuclear warhead on a timer and your driving into a major city.
Insecure loads are what DVSA care about no?
No way of knowing unless you check and would probably stop so many containers overturning if they could check inside.
