Article from a very recent edition of an advanced driving magazine…
‘It was a disturbing fact that soldiers were nearly three times more likely to be involved in an RTA than their civilian counterparts’
ROG:
Article from a very recent edition of an advanced driving magazine…
‘It was a disturbing fact that soldiers were nearly three times more likely to be involved in an RTA than their civilian counterparts’
Sounds like the ones given the driving jobs just are’nt cut out for it ROG.It’s the way in the modern day army like everywhere else career truck drivers are born not trained.The office bods look on our job as some type of reward scheme given to those who’ve excelled at something else and then wonder why they are’nt any good at it.My Grandad was driving a team of horses and a wagon at that age and went on to steam powered Fodens.My dad was driving Diamond T tank transporters at 18.I was given one of these to try at 18 off road and made a good enough job of it for them to pay for my class 2 to drive them on the road starting when I’d just had my 21’st birthday.
www.fire-engine-photos.com/picture/number4345.asp
As Rog has already posted, it’s to do with attitude - not age. I started driving coaches at 18, class 1 at 21. Now fast approaching retirement, I’m free of serious accidents (yes I’ve encountered the odd elusive gatepost). From the other side of the fence, I’ve been training coach drivers since I was the ripe old age of 19 and truck drivers since I was 21. (The issue of experience is another matter altogether and not the subject of this post!). In this time I have lost count of the number of 18 year old coach drivers I’ve trained. Not aware that any have had problems.
To repeat, it’s all down to attitude.
Feel free to use this post 
To be honest, i think it’s a great opportunity.
Only the sensible 18 year olds that know what they want and will fork out all the money for the licence will do it so really theres not going to be any fools on the road?
Plus how many 18 year olds are going to get jobs as lorry drivers straight away? but instead have gained there licence at a younger age there for can get more experience.
You probably will all disagree but why not give them a chance, it’s nothing to do with age more to do with attitude towards the trade your going to need to stand out by a mile to even get a interview between 18 and 21 so no company is going to employ a fool anyway.
I’m 15 and i have wanted to be a driver ever since going in a wagon for my first time, it’s what i want. And now that i can gain my licence at a much younger age i am happy.
Joshh:
To be honest, i think it’s a great opportunity.
Only the sensible 18 year olds that know what they want and will fork out all the money for the licence will do it so really theres not going to be any fools on the road?
Plus how many 18 year olds are going to get jobs as lorry drivers straight away? but instead have gained there licence at a younger age there for can get more experience.
You probably will all disagree but why not give them a chance, it’s nothing to do with age more to do with attitude towards the trade your going to need to stand out by a mile to even get a interview between 18 and 21 so no company is going to employ a fool anyway.
I’m 15 and i have wanted to be a driver ever since going in a wagon for my first time, it’s what i want. And now that i can gain my licence at a much younger age i am happy.
Can anybody beat this sensible, realistic and level headed post by a 15 year old ?
Well written too
Joshh:
To be honest, i think it’s a great opportunity.
Only the sensible 18 year olds that know what they want and will fork out all the money for the licence will do it so really theres not going to be any fools on the road?
Plus how many 18 year olds are going to get jobs as lorry drivers straight away? but instead have gained there licence at a younger age there for can get more experience.
You probably will all disagree but why not give them a chance, it’s nothing to do with age more to do with attitude towards the trade your going to need to stand out by a mile to even get a interview between 18 and 21 so no company is going to employ a fool anyway.
I’m 15 and i have wanted to be a driver ever since going in a wagon for my first time, it’s what i want. And now that i can gain my licence at a much younger age i am happy.
Well said Joshh.
Joshh:
To be honest, i think it’s a great opportunity.
Only the sensible 18 year olds that know what they want and will fork out all the money for the licence will do it so really theres not going to be any fools on the road?
Plus how many 18 year olds are going to get jobs as lorry drivers straight away? but instead have gained there licence at a younger age there for can get more experience.
You probably will all disagree but why not give them a chance, it’s nothing to do with age more to do with attitude towards the trade your going to need to stand out by a mile to even get a interview between 18 and 21 so no company is going to employ a fool anyway.
I’m 15 and i have wanted to be a driver ever since going in a wagon for my first time, it’s what i want. And now that i can gain my licence at a much younger age i am happy.
The problem is in the real world once you get started Joshh you’ll find that there’s a catch 22 which has always been there in which getting that licence at an early age won’t always get you that experience which you need.You’ll run up against that old no experience no job too often just like I did as soon as I went into haulage from factory testing and transport while I was still 21.The real sickener comes when you see younger blokes in the industry who started much later out there running international work because they’ve been lucky enough to get the breaks while you don’t.In that scenario it’s quite possible that you could find yourself still doing local multi drop or UK trunking with anything from an artic to a 4 wheeler when you’re 30 while someone of 28 who passed the test at an older age gets international with a top grade wagon.Sometimes that can happen in the case of those trained army drivers or people coming from other industries who never had any intention of getting into the industry at the age which we both did or even at all.They just get the free training from the forces or the jobcentre and sometimes then just get very lucky.If not then you’ll also run into the issues of seniority in which old drivers don’t like giving way to younger ones when it comes to the best versus worst types of work and trucks.Anyway I’m not one of those who disagree take every opportunity you can and hopefully you’ll find a decent firm that will take an open minded view of taking on new younger drivers.But as I remember it the young drivers training scheme operated by the RTITB at the time was there even when I left school in 1975 and that would have also allowed me to get a class 1 before I was 21.It just might have made a slight difference in helping me find a better career path in the industry than the one I was dealt but I doubt it though.
Peter Smythe:
(The issue of experience is another matter altogether and not the subject of this post!).
I’d of thought the issue of experience is what it’s all about! Get a car licence at 17, and a hgv at 18, what experience have you gained in that time? A lot of 18 year old’s are still cutting up the lgv’s at roundabouts, and have no thought that the driver needs extra room for manouvering, extra distance for stopping, restricted to 56 mph…and without thought for the load either.
instructorone:
Peter Smythe:
(The issue of experience is another matter altogether and not the subject of this post!).I’d of thought the issue of experience is what it’s all about! Get a car licence at 17, and a hgv at 18, what experience have you gained in that time? A lot of 18 year old’s are still cutting up the lgv’s at roundabouts, and have no thought that the driver needs extra room for manouvering, extra distance for stopping, restricted to 56 mph…and without thought for the load either.
That sounds a bit ageist to me.We hear a lot about age discrimination in the workplace against older workers but no one seems too worried when it’s younger ones who are discriminated against.It seems like you are just judging driving ability on age not on merit.So why not teach those who want to enter the industry things like load security,driving theory,the CPC,shunting offroad, and everything else which needs to be learnt before even taking a truck out on the road in those years before they can hold the licence at 18.There’s at least 2 years from the age when they can leave school until when they can hold that licence.By your argument who would have been driving those trucks which my dad was driving when he was 18 during WW2?.A lot of drivers a lot older than 18 are still cutting up HGV’s at roundabouts,and have no thought about anything which they do on the road either.But where and how are any new drivers of whatever age going to get that experience if no one gives them the chance to get it in the beginning?.But it’s better to learn on the job from an early as age as possible so that experience is gained sooner rather than later.
Peter Smythe wrote: (The issue of experience is another matter altogether and not the subject of this post!).
I’d of thought the issue of experience is what it’s all about!
Sorry, perhaps I didn’t make it clear. I was referring to my own lack of experience before I started instructing. Happy to say I think that’s been well compensated since!!
instructorone:
I’d of thought the issue of experience is what it’s all about! Get a car licence at 17, and a hgv at 18, what experience have you gained in that time? A lot of 18 year old’s are still cutting up the lgv’s at roundabouts, and have no thought that the driver needs extra room for manouvering, extra distance for stopping, restricted to 56 mph…and without thought for the load either.
If that is the case then how do 17 & 18 years olds manage to pass the advanced driving test which is probably the most demanding test that a civilian can take 
That AD test covers EVERYTHING - including all other road users
It seems to me that this question is for the most part irrelevant, as gaining the qualification and getting a job are two massively different things.
Insurance companies are always bleeting on that young males are the cause of most insurance claims and fix their charges accordingly. Employers are effectively restricted as to the age/ experience of drivers they are able to consider for employment due to the financial cost of these constraints.
The only way I could see this would be feasable, is if the government subsidised the employer under some sort of scheme to allow the newly qualified 18yr old drivers to become employed.
In my opinion, that would be a bad idea, we as a counrty are pretty much bankrupt and further subsidies will only compound the problem, especially when we have a growing pool of experienced drivers who are looking for jobs.
You are at liberty to use these comments…However, if you’re speaking to anyone with any clout there is a proviso that you tell them to sort out our Border Controls!
Carryfast:
instructorone:
Peter Smythe:
(The issue of experience is another matter altogether and not the subject of this post!).I’d of thought the issue of experience is what it’s all about! Get a car licence at 17, and a hgv at 18, what experience have you gained in that time? A lot of 18 year old’s are still cutting up the lgv’s at roundabouts, and have no thought that the driver needs extra room for manouvering, extra distance for stopping, restricted to 56 mph…and without thought for the load either.
That sounds a bit ageist to me.We hear a lot about age discrimination in the workplace against older workers but no one seems too worried when it’s younger ones who are discriminated against.It seems like you are just judging driving ability on age not on merit.So why not teach those who want to enter the industry things like load security,driving theory,the CPC,shunting offroad, and everything else which needs to be learnt before even taking a truck out on the road in those years before they can hold the licence at 18.There’s at least 2 years from the age when they can leave school until when they can hold that licence.By your argument who would have been driving those trucks which my dad was driving when he was 18 during WW2?.A lot of drivers a lot older than 18 are still cutting up HGV’s at roundabouts,and have no thought about anything which they do on the road either.But where and how are any new drivers of whatever age going to get that experience if no one gives them the chance to get it in the beginning?.But it’s better to learn on the job from an early as age as possible so that experience is gained sooner rather than later.
There is an option above to click “yes with restrictions” Restrictions can be anything…ie, a provisional…to be able to acquire a provisional lgv at 17 when they pass the car test, then ongoing training to include awareness of all of the above, hands on experience, maybe even drivers mate for a while…like you say, they are our future, IF they are taught well from the beginning, had apprenticeships then all well and good, but to just leave school, get the car licence, then the lgv licence is not good imo.
I think it’s worth repeating the point.
“Look, we’ve given you a job but the insurance premium has doubled so there’s no money for a pay rise, for you or the rest of the drivers!”
There’s a point. At 18 yrs old will they be expected to work for the minimum wage?
What wage do you think these ‘kids’ will expect/work for? No family or mortgage to support. Nice shiny wagon to pose in.
They’ll end up payin’ the boss!!!
(I voted ‘no’ by the way…)
I have NO problem whatsoever with 18 year old driving class1, some posters must realise that they have to pass the test first…Just because you are 21 does this automaticly make you a better driver, NO I see numptys in there30s 40s 50s and 60s who shouldn’t be allowed out let alone drive a vehicle.
These young people are old and good enough to go to Afganistan and put there lives on the line everyday but drive a class 1 OH my God NO…Of course they are good enough!!!
By the way we lost more troops in Germany/NI with RTCs in 1 year in the 70-80s then they have in the whole of the Afgan campaign, that is why at the moment it is still a sustainable loss. The point is driving has always been an issue with the forces, nothing to do with making you work for and drive for 3-4 days non-stop… 
Deepinvet:
I have NO problem whatsoever with 18 year old driving class1, some posters must realise that they have to pass the test first…Just because you are 21 does this automaticly make you a better driver, NO I see numptys in there30s 40s 50s and 60s who shouldn’t be allowed out let alone drive a vehicle.These young people are old and good enough to go to Afganistan and put there lives on the line everyday but drive a class 1 OH my God NO…Of course they are good enough!!!
By the way we lost more troops in Germany/NI with RTCs in 1 year in the 70-80s then they have in the whole of the Afgan campaign, that is why at the moment it is still a sustainable loss. The point is driving has always been an issue with the forces, nothing to do with making you work for and drive for 3-4 days non-stop…
Spot on deepinvet.There were also teenaged pilots flying spitfires in the battle of britain.Did’nt hear anyone saying they were just in it to pose.It sounds to me just like when I was a new driver in that those against are just trying to reserve the job all for themselves.Unless it’s crap local multi drop, local council work,or 15 years of nights then they might just not complain as much as I remember it.By the way I voted yes without restrictions.
hiya,
Was an experienced LGV driver at age 18 " the army said so", and did the job without doing any damage to property or vehicle for the duration of my national service and i’m talking vehicles pulling trailers, left the forces at age 20 but wasn’t allowed “although experienced” to drive in civvy street, so did’nt get behind the wheel of a lorry for about a year, which was stupid, lorries were quite slow in those days and the traffic was a bit thinner and i proved i was no duck egg taking an eight wheeler and trailer out on my first day aged just 21 without doing any damage, i never was a boy racer i missed out because i did my training and driving with an element of discipline always there, knowing if there was problems of my making i was for the high jump, so my vote must be NO the youth of today with few exceptions lack the necessary discipline to be let loose at the wheel of today’s powerful vehicles.
thanks harry long retired.
harry_gill:
hiya,
Was an experienced LGV driver at age 18 " the army said so", and did the job without doing any damage to property or vehicle for the duration of my national service and i’m talking vehicles pulling trailers, left the forces at age 20 but wasn’t allowed “although experienced” to drive in civvy street, so did’nt get behind the wheel of a lorry for about a year, which was stupid, lorries were quite slow in those days and the traffic was a bit thinner and i proved i was no duck egg taking an eight wheeler and trailer out on my first day aged just 21 without doing any damage, i never was a boy racer i missed out because i did my training and driving with an element of discipline always there, knowing if there was problems of my making i was for the high jump, so my vote must be NO the youth of today with few exceptions lack the necessary discipline to be let loose at the wheel of today’s powerful vehicles.
thanks harry long retired.
By that yardstick harry they won’t be able to trust anyone of any age unless they’re ex army drivers.I’d never even been near a parade ground but as a civvy I reckon that I was as disciplined as any ex army driver at 18 or 21.
hiya,
Carryfast it would be a funny old world if we all had the same opinion and all thought along the same lines at age 73 i don’t think you or anybody else will be able change my way of thinking.
thanks harry long retired.
ROG:
instructorone:
I’d of thought the issue of experience is what it’s all about! Get a car licence at 17, and a hgv at 18, what experience have you gained in that time? A lot of 18 year old’s are still cutting up the lgv’s at roundabouts, and have no thought that the driver needs extra room for manouvering, extra distance for stopping, restricted to 56 mph…and without thought for the load either.If that is the case then how do 17 & 18 years olds manage to pass the advanced driving test which is probably the most demanding test that a civilian can take
That AD test covers EVERYTHING - including all other road users
Being interested enough to even seek an advanced qualification in the first place probably helps. Added to that, they will no doubt receive valuable advice from their observers. Most of the 18-year-olds who go for their LGV licence are unlikely to receive any more tuition than the minimum required to pass their DSA tests, and combined with their lack of driving experience, I don’t think that’s enough to guarantee a safe standard of driving. Some young drivers will be more than capable, but I fear many will not. You only have to look at local bus drivers to see the huge variations in competence.