Just wondering when and if driving around the docks for containers and it’s private land can we run out of scope on the taco to save some drive time, I know the working time directive still applies but any see a problem with this …?
You used to be able to years ago, but you can’t now as all driving counts if all you are doing is dropping one and picking up one up.
Any journey starting or finishing by use of the public highway, the driving has to be recorded as in scope.
although if you was on say Felixstowe Dock and in between dropping and picking up the next box you went and fueled up at the garage on the dock complex the journey from the drop off via the garage to the pick up could be counted as out of scope as it is a separate journey off road.
I thought they changed the rules some years back so that if at any point of your working week you came under EU regs then all driving in that week had to be recorded as such regardless of whether it’s on a public or private road.
dreamingofoz:
I thought they changed the rules some years back so that if at any point of your working week you came under EU regs then all driving in that week had to be recorded as such regardless of whether it’s on a public or private road.
Yeh about 10 yrs ago I think it was.
You were always allowed to put mode on ‘other work’ on the old analogue tachos afai recall, when driving off road, but they did change it.
You could save up to an hour a day’s driving time some days then.
robroy:
You could save up to an hour a day’s driving time some days then.
You could save about 4 hours if you unfortunate enough to be doing multiple collections at ICI Wilton! 
would this come under “Out of Scope”?
arrive at a factory to drop a trailer for loading .
Drop trailer and then get a phonecall to say I’m needed to shunt trailers round said factory for a couple of hours .
Shunt a few trailers on and off bays for 2 hours .
take 45mins rest and then bounce to our yard .
Can that 2 hours shunting be classed as out of scope ?
beefy4605:
would this come under “Out of Scope”?
arrive at a factory to drop a trailer for loading .
Drop trailer and then get a phonecall to say I’m needed to shunt trailers round said factory for a couple of hours .
Shunt a few trailers on and off bays for 2 hours .
take 45mins rest and then bounce to our yard .
Can that 2 hours shunting be classed as out of scope ?
No.
OK then
Can we have some examples of when we can use" Out of Scope" ?
Pawuk:
Just wondering when and if driving around the docks for containers and it’s private land can we run out of scope on the taco to save some drive time, I know the working time directive still applies but any see a problem with this …?
If you do all day in private area and not go to public road that legally.Same shunted truck work without card.
Pawuk:
Just wondering when and if driving around the docks for containers and it’s private land can we run out of scope on the taco to save some drive time, I know the working time directive still applies but any see a problem with this …?
If you do all day in private area and not go to public road that legally.Same shunted truck work without card.
beefy4605:
OK then
Can we have some examples of when we can use" Out of Scope" ?
Sorry about the blunt answer I was trying to paste the regs from the manual.
Out of Scope,
I believe these circumstances would be “Out of Scope”
Private use.
If you drive a vehicle that is goes between EU and Domestic regs, to define times when you’re not under EU regs,
beefy4605:
OK then
Can we have some examples of when we can use" Out of Scope" ?
If you where working under domestic hours, but using a digi card to record them hours, or a mix of both eu and domestic.
muckles:
beefy4605:
would this come under “Out of Scope”?
arrive at a factory to drop a trailer for loading .
Drop trailer and then get a phonecall to say I’m needed to shunt trailers round said factory for a couple of hours .
Shunt a few trailers on and off bays for 2 hours .
take 45mins rest and then bounce to our yard .
Can that 2 hours shunting be classed as out of scope ?No.
What if a driver used the battered old FL10 shunt unit to do the shunting? Legally, would he be obliged to use a paper tacho chart?
Sometimes we have to move 3 or 4 motors in our yard at the start of our shift so we can get our own vehicles out. Are we obliged to put our tachograph in each vehicle we move? I’m curious where the law lays here.
ezydriver:
muckles:
beefy4605:
would this come under “Out of Scope”?
arrive at a factory to drop a trailer for loading .
Drop trailer and then get a phonecall to say I’m needed to shunt trailers round said factory for a couple of hours .
Shunt a few trailers on and off bays for 2 hours .
take 45mins rest and then bounce to our yard .
Can that 2 hours shunting be classed as out of scope ?No.
What if a driver used the battered old FL10 shunt unit to do the shunting? Legally, would he be obliged to use a paper tacho chart?
Sometimes we have to move 3 or 4 motors in our yard at the start of our shift so we can get our own vehicles out. Are we obliged to put our tachograph in each vehicle we move? I’m curious where the law lays here.
My answer to that would be that there is a difference between ‘where the law lays’ in these types of scenarios, and ‘real world’ stuff.
I aint no expert on this crap, but I would reckon the letter of these laws would dictate yes you should, but do you know anyone who actually would ?
ezydriver:
muckles:
beefy4605:
would this come under “Out of Scope”?
arrive at a factory to drop a trailer for loading .
Drop trailer and then get a phonecall to say I’m needed to shunt trailers round said factory for a couple of hours .
Shunt a few trailers on and off bays for 2 hours .
take 45mins rest and then bounce to our yard .
Can that 2 hours shunting be classed as out of scope ?No.
What if a driver used the battered old FL10 shunt unit to do the shunting? Legally, would he be obliged to use a paper tacho chart?
Sometimes we have to move 3 or 4 motors in our yard at the start of our shift so we can get our own vehicles out. Are we obliged to put our tachograph in each vehicle we move? I’m curious where the law lays here.
If you going onto the road at one point and come under the EU drivers hours regs, then as the regulations stand I suppose you should record all the driving you’ve done off road, regardless of the age of type of tachograph the motor has.
Realistically, well I know what I’d be doing, how you do it is up to you. 
PS just seen Robroys reply,
I know this isn’t the answer direct from the regulations, but a quick answer:
During a week in which the in-scope driving has taken place, any previous work (including out-of-scope driving in that week) would have to be recorded as ‘other work’ on a tachograph chart, printout or a manual entry using the manual input facility of a digital tachograph, or a legally required GB domestic record on a log book.
transportsfriend.org/hours/mixed.html#hgv
As for moving trailers - I’d say VOSA are likely to see that in the same way as moving a unit around the yard for 2 mins without card. Certain allowances are allowed, it’s just when you start taking the pee that they get arsey. Personally I’d record it as “other work”.
trevHCS:
I know this isn’t the answer direct from the regulations, but a quick answer:During a week in which the in-scope driving has taken place, any previous work (including out-of-scope driving in that week) would have to be recorded as ‘other work’ on a tachograph chart, printout or a manual entry using the manual input facility of a digital tachograph, or a legally required GB domestic record on a log book.
transportsfriend.org/hours/mixed.html#hgv
Will try to find the answer in the regs later unless Tachograph, ROG or someone else equally bored finds it first.
As for moving trailers - I’d say VOSA are likely to see that in the same way as moving a unit around the yard for 2 mins without card. Certain allowances are allowed, it’s just when you start taking the pee that they get arsey. Personally I’d record it as “other work”.
Equally bored and found it, 
Note: All off road driving between rest periods will also count towards the daily driving limit where there is also driving on the public highway between those same rest periods.Where there is no driving on the public highway between rest periods then any off road driving is considered to be ‘other work’.
Therefore driving off road isn’t considered “Out of Scope” if you driven in the road during that day.
I believe the DVSA did prosecute a company a few years ago, as drivers were removing their cards when they got the gate of the depot and driving on site without a card, which added up to a fair bit of unrecorded time by the end of a week, but even if they found out I doubt they’d worry too much about a driver moving the odd truck to get his truck out of a yard.
So while we are at it - truck shows , road runs for charity - Out of scope or not ?
beefy4605:
So while we are at it - truck shows , road runs for charity - Out of scope or not ?
If it’s not a commercial activity, I’d say “Out of Scope”.
beefy4605:
OK then
Can we have some examples of when we can use" Out of Scope" ?
“Topdressing” country roads with those little annoying chips that wreck your car!!![emoji52]
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