Hi everyone,
Can someone please tell me why the hell I cannot insure my business ( one man Ltd). I am driving for private LTD customers and I always use their trucks. I was told by broker there is no such market like negligence cover for small Ltd companies such as mine. This is only available for agencies and payroll companies■■? Does anyone know where can I get negligence cover? I am very confused because: to satisfy IR35 I need to have insurance and 2: in case of accident/ collision I will need to pay full costs for repairs instead to pay only excess??
Can someone please clarify how the hell does it work?
You need public liabilty insurance…
Because their own insurance covers you for their own vehicles.
I can’t remember who I had my public liability through. It cost me £99 I found it on the net somewhere.
yourhavingalarf:
You need public liabilty insurance…Because their own insurance covers you for their own vehicles.
I can’t remember who I had my public liability through. It cost me £99 I found it on the net somewhere.
OK, thank you.
I found public liability cover for same amount but I was told it does not cover for anything that happens on the road.
So in case if accident happen and truck is damaged : is it correct that the customer for who I work and who I invoice for work done invoices me for repairs of this truck?
I have the feeling that many drivers have been pushed to set up ltd just to move responsibility to those small Ltd and we even do not have any way to protect ourselves.
marian63:
I found public liability cover for same amount but I was told it does not cover for anything that happens on the road.So in case if accident happen and truck is damaged : is it correct that the customer for who I work and who I invoice for work done invoices me for repairs of this truck?
Their OWN vehicle insurance covers you, it always has.
No, you don’t pay for repairs to the vehicle, the haulage firms insurer pays for that. It’s pointless them coming to you for large accident claims because you’ll just fold the company. Even if you didn’t do that, there’s no way you could pay a large claim in the £100,000s is there.
yourhavingalarf:
marian63:
I found public liability cover for same amount but I was told it does not cover for anything that happens on the road.So in case if accident happen and truck is damaged : is it correct that the customer for who I work and who I invoice for work done invoices me for repairs of this truck?
Their OWN vehicle insurance covers you, it always has.
No, you don’t pay for repairs to the vehicle, the haulage firms insurer pays for that. It’s pointless them coming to you for large accident claims because you’ll just fold the company. Even if you didn’t do that, there’s no way you could pay a large claim in the £100,000s is there.
Sure i understand that. I ask because my colleague had this situation: there was collision and despite that it was not my colleagu foult his small LTD received invoice from customer for repairs already done (damaged truck door, bumper light… for) £3000. He was told if there is no negligence cover in place he cant make claim and he need to pay bill in full. The customer repaired damages and later he was trying to get those money back from my colleague. I am not sure if this is correct or am I missing something here?
Seems to me that people are getting ripped off…
I ran for nearly 14 years as a Ltd one man outfit. There was never any posibilty of my company having to pay for any repairs to any vehicle I had driven for any reason whatsoever.
If they’re insisting your mate pays the 3 grand invoice, tell him to dissolve the company.
marian63:
I found public liability cover for same amount but I was told it does not cover for anything that happens on the road.
Because that is what their vehicle insurance is for.
So in case if accident happen and truck is damaged : is it correct that the customer for who I work and who I invoice for work done invoices me for repairs of this truck?
.
What is in your terms of business you got them to sign? In mine I had a clause stating that they were responsible for insuring the lorry and that neither I or any of my employees were liable for any damage or losses arising from it.
If you don’t have a clause in your terms of business you get them to sign that absolve you from any liability then you’re an idiot. If you don’t have a terms of business you get them to sign then you’re an utter idiot.
marian63:
Sure i understand that. I ask because my colleague had this situation: there was collision and despite that it was not my colleagu foult his small LTD received invoice from customer for repairs already done (damaged truck door, bumper light… for) £3000. He was told if there is no negligence cover in place he cant make claim and he need to pay bill in full. The customer repaired damages and later he was trying to get those money back from my colleague. I am not sure if this is correct or am I missing something here?
You’re missing the fact he is an idiot and does not have a set of terms and conditions he gets his customers to sign. Had he had a set of terms of business he got them to sign he could simply say “I am not liable for any costs. Please refer to Section 3 of my terms of business which you signed.” But he couldn’t because he didn’t have any.
This is what happens when people who should never be self employed set up on their own to make a bit extra and think its nothing more than deciding to go self employed, make up a name, drive a motor and send out an invoice.
Seeing as it sorely needs to be reposted…
Backside covering Terms and Conditions of Business. Clause 6, specifically 6a is your get out of jail if you damage something and clause 6b makes them responsible for covering you under their public liability insurance.
Use these, change the name as required. Make sure every customer you take on signs a copy. This sets out how many days they have to pay an invoice with a penalty set out if they pay late, a minimum payment if they cancel at short notice, the fact they’re required to make sure the vehicle is fully insured and that you’re not liable for any costs, damage or loss of profit for anything you do or any driver you send in does.
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Conor Turton Trading
Terms of Business for the supply of Temporary Drivers
-
These Terms and Conditions of business are between Conor Turton Trading (hereinafter called the ‘EMPLOYMENT BUSINESS’) and the hirer hiring the temporary driver (hereinafter called the ‘CLIENT’).
-
These Terms and Conditions are deemed to be accepted by the Client by virtue of an interview of the engagement by the Client (which term includes employment or use whether agency, licensee, franchise or partnership agreement) of a temporary driver (hereinafter called a ‘TEMPORARY WORKER’) introduced by the Employment Business.
-
The Client agrees to pay the hourly charges of the Employment Business as notified at the commencement of the Assignment and as may be varied from time to time during the Assignment. The charges are calculated according to the number of hours worked by the Temporary Worker (to the nearest quarter hour). The charges are compromised mainly of the Temporary Worker’s remuneration but also include the Employment Business’ commission, employer’s national insurance contributions and any travel, hotel, parking, tolls or other expenses as may have been agreed with the Client or, if there is not such agreement, such expenses as are reasonable. The charges are invoiced to the Client on a weekly basis and are payable within 30 days unless agreed otherwise. The Company reserves the right to charge interest on any overdue amounts at the rate of up to 8% per annum above the base rate of Barclays Bank PLC from time to time, from the due date until the date of payment.
-
The Employment Business assumes responsibility for payment of the Temporary Worker’s remuneration and where appropriate, for the deduction and payment of National Insurance Contribution and PAYE Income Tax applicable to the Temporary Worker.
-
The direct Engagement by a Client of a Temporary Worker introduced by the Employment Business, of the introduction by the Client of a Temporary Worker to any third party resulting in an Engagement (or, where applicable, if the Temporary Worker has become incorporated under a limited company, the Engagement of that limited company) renders the Client subject to the payment of an introduction fee calculated at 15% of the annual gross taxable remuneration and emoluments payable to the Temporary Worker, provided that the Engagement takes place within a period of 3 months from the termination of the Assignment under which the Temporary Worker was last supplied, or if there was no Assignment, within 3 months of the introduction of the Temporary Worker by the Employment Business. Where the Client fails to inform the Employment Business of the annual remuneration, the introduction fee will be calculated by multiplying the hourly rate agreed between the Client and the Employment Business by a figure not exceeding 200. No refund of the introduction fee will be paid in the event that the Engagement subsequently terminates.
-
Whilst every effort is made by the Employment Business to give satisfaction to the Client by ensuring reasonable standard of skills, integrity and reliability from Temporary Workers and further to provide them in accordance with the Client’s booking details, the Employment Business is not liable for any loss, expense, damage or delay arising from any failure to provide any Temporary Worker for all or part of the period of booking or from the negligence, dishonesty, misconduct or lack of skill of the Temporary Worker. For the avoidance of doubt, the Employment Business does not exclude liability for death or personal injury arising from its own negligence.
a) Temporary Workers are engaged by the Employment Business under Terms of Engagement. They are deemed to be under the supervision, direction and control of the Client from the time they report to take up duties and for the duration of the Assignment. The Client agrees to be responsible for all acts, errors or omissions of the Temporary Worker, whether willful, negligent or otherwise as though he was on the payroll of the Client. The Client will also comply in all respects with all statutes including, for the avoidance of doubt, the Working Time Regulations and requirements of vehicle insurance under the Road Traffic Act , by-laws, codes of practice and legal requirements to which the Client is ordinarily subject in respect of the Client’s own staff (excluding the matters specifically mentioned in Clause 5 above), including in particular the provision of adequate Employer’s and Public Liability Insurance cover for the Temporary Worker during all Assignments. The Client shall also advise the Employment Business of any special health and safety matters about which the Employment Business is required to inform the Temporary Worker. The Client will assist the Employment Business in complying with the Employment Business’ duties under the Working Time Regulations by supplying any relevant information about the Assignment requested by the Employment Business and the Client will not do anything to cause the Employment Business to be in breach of its obligations under these Regulations. Where the Client requires or may require the service of a Temporary Worker for more than 48 hours in any week, the Client must notify the Employment Business of this requirement before the commencement of that week.
b) The Client shall indemnify and keep indemnified the Employment Business against any costs, claims or liabilities incurred by the Employment Business arising out of any Assignment and/or as a result of any breach of these Terms by the Client.
- The Client undertakes to supervise the Temporary Worker sufficiently to ensure the Client’s satisfaction with the Temporary Worker’s standards of workmanship. If the Client reasonably considers that the services of the Temporary Worker are unsatisfactory, the Client may terminate the Assignment either by instructing the Temporary Worker to leave the Assignment immediately, or by directing the Employment Business to remove the Temporary Worker. The Employment Business may in such circumstances reduce or cancel the charges for the time worked by that Temporary Worker, provided that the Assignment terminates:-
a. within four hours of the Temporary Worker commencing the Assignment where the booking is for more than seven hours; or
b. within two hours for bookings of seven hours or less. And also provided that notification of the unsuitability of the Temporary Worker is confirmed in writing to the Employment Business within 48 hours of the termination of the Assignment.
c. Any of the Client, the Employment Business or the Temporary Worker may terminate an Assignment at any time without prior notice and without liability.
8.a. Temporary Workers engaged by the Employment Business under Terms of Engagement are deemed to be under the direction and control of the Client, from the time the Temporary Worker reports to take up duties and for the duration of the assignment and the client agrees to be responsible for all acts, errors or omissions be they willful, negligent or otherwise as though the Temporary Worker were on the Payroll of the Client and the Client will in all respects comply with all statutes, by-laws, codes of practice and legal requirements to which the Client is ordinarily subject in respect of the Client’s own staff, including in particular the provision of adequate Employer’s and Public Liability Insurance cover for the Temporary Worker during all assignments but excluding the matters specifically mentioned in Paragraph above.
8.b. The Client shall indemnify and keep indemnified the Employment Business against any costs, claims and liabilities incurred by the Employment Business arising out of the assignment.
8.c. These Terms are governed by the Law of England and Wales jurisdiction of the Courts of England and Wales .
9.No variation can be made to these terms without the written consent of the proprietor.
Signed for and on behalf of the client:
Organisation Name:
Signed:
Print Name:
Date:
Conor:
Seeing as it sorely needs to be reposted…Backside covering Terms and Conditions of Business. Clause 6, specifically 6a is your get out of jail if you damage something and clause 6b makes them responsible for covering you under their public liability insurance.
Use these, change the name as required. Make sure every customer you take on signs a copy. This sets out how many days they have to pay an invoice with a penalty set out if they pay late, a minimum payment if they cancel at short notice, the fact they’re required to make sure the vehicle is fully insured and that you’re not liable for any costs, damage or loss of profit for anything you do or any driver you send in does.
===========START=============
Conor Turton Trading
Terms of Business for the supply of Temporary Drivers
These Terms and Conditions of business are between Conor Turton Trading (hereinafter called the ‘EMPLOYMENT BUSINESS’) and the hirer hiring the temporary driver (hereinafter called the ‘CLIENT’).
These Terms and Conditions are deemed to be accepted by the Client by virtue of an interview of the engagement by the Client (which term includes employment or use whether agency, licensee, franchise or partnership agreement) of a temporary driver (hereinafter called a ‘TEMPORARY WORKER’) introduced by the Employment Business.
The Client agrees to pay the hourly charges of the Employment Business as notified at the commencement of the Assignment and as may be varied from time to time during the Assignment. The charges are calculated according to the number of hours worked by the Temporary Worker (to the nearest quarter hour). The charges are compromised mainly of the Temporary Worker’s remuneration but also include the Employment Business’ commission, employer’s national insurance contributions and any travel, hotel, parking, tolls or other expenses as may have been agreed with the Client or, if there is not such agreement, such expenses as are reasonable. The charges are invoiced to the Client on a weekly basis and are payable within 30 days unless agreed otherwise. The Company reserves the right to charge interest on any overdue amounts at the rate of up to 8% per annum above the base rate of Barclays Bank PLC from time to time, from the due date until the date of payment.
The Employment Business assumes responsibility for payment of the Temporary Worker’s remuneration and where appropriate, for the deduction and payment of National Insurance Contribution and PAYE Income Tax applicable to the Temporary Worker.
The direct Engagement by a Client of a Temporary Worker introduced by the Employment Business, of the introduction by the Client of a Temporary Worker to any third party resulting in an Engagement (or, where applicable, if the Temporary Worker has become incorporated under a limited company, the Engagement of that limited company) renders the Client subject to the payment of an introduction fee calculated at 15% of the annual gross taxable remuneration and emoluments payable to the Temporary Worker, provided that the Engagement takes place within a period of 3 months from the termination of the Assignment under which the Temporary Worker was last supplied, or if there was no Assignment, within 3 months of the introduction of the Temporary Worker by the Employment Business. Where the Client fails to inform the Employment Business of the annual remuneration, the introduction fee will be calculated by multiplying the hourly rate agreed between the Client and the Employment Business by a figure not exceeding 200. No refund of the introduction fee will be paid in the event that the Engagement subsequently terminates.
Whilst every effort is made by the Employment Business to give satisfaction to the Client by ensuring reasonable standard of skills, integrity and reliability from Temporary Workers and further to provide them in accordance with the Client’s booking details, the Employment Business is not liable for any loss, expense, damage or delay arising from any failure to provide any Temporary Worker for all or part of the period of booking or from the negligence, dishonesty, misconduct or lack of skill of the Temporary Worker. For the avoidance of doubt, the Employment Business does not exclude liability for death or personal injury arising from its own negligence.
a) Temporary Workers are engaged by the Employment Business under Terms of Engagement. They are deemed to be under the supervision, direction and control of the Client from the time they report to take up duties and for the duration of the Assignment. The Client agrees to be responsible for all acts, errors or omissions of the Temporary Worker, whether willful, negligent or otherwise as though he was on the payroll of the Client. The Client will also comply in all respects with all statutes including, for the avoidance of doubt, the Working Time Regulations and requirements of vehicle insurance under the Road Traffic Act , by-laws, codes of practice and legal requirements to which the Client is ordinarily subject in respect of the Client’s own staff (excluding the matters specifically mentioned in Clause 5 above), including in particular the provision of adequate Employer’s and Public Liability Insurance cover for the Temporary Worker during all Assignments. The Client shall also advise the Employment Business of any special health and safety matters about which the Employment Business is required to inform the Temporary Worker. The Client will assist the Employment Business in complying with the Employment Business’ duties under the Working Time Regulations by supplying any relevant information about the Assignment requested by the Employment Business and the Client will not do anything to cause the Employment Business to be in breach of its obligations under these Regulations. Where the Client requires or may require the service of a Temporary Worker for more than 48 hours in any week, the Client must notify the Employment Business of this requirement before the commencement of that week.
b) The Client shall indemnify and keep indemnified the Employment Business against any costs, claims or liabilities incurred by the Employment Business arising out of any Assignment and/or as a result of any breach of these Terms by the Client.
- The Client undertakes to supervise the Temporary Worker sufficiently to ensure the Client’s satisfaction with the Temporary Worker’s standards of workmanship. If the Client reasonably considers that the services of the Temporary Worker are unsatisfactory, the Client may terminate the Assignment either by instructing the Temporary Worker to leave the Assignment immediately, or by directing the Employment Business to remove the Temporary Worker. The Employment Business may in such circumstances reduce or cancel the charges for the time worked by that Temporary Worker, provided that the Assignment terminates:-
a. within four hours of the Temporary Worker commencing the Assignment where the booking is for more than seven hours; or
b. within two hours for bookings of seven hours or less. And also provided that notification of the unsuitability of the Temporary Worker is confirmed in writing to the Employment Business within 48 hours of the termination of the Assignment.
c. Any of the Client, the Employment Business or the Temporary Worker may terminate an Assignment at any time without prior notice and without liability.8.a. Temporary Workers engaged by the Employment Business under Terms of Engagement are deemed to be under the direction and control of the Client, from the time the Temporary Worker reports to take up duties and for the duration of the assignment and the client agrees to be responsible for all acts, errors or omissions be they willful, negligent or otherwise as though the Temporary Worker were on the Payroll of the Client and the Client will in all respects comply with all statutes, by-laws, codes of practice and legal requirements to which the Client is ordinarily subject in respect of the Client’s own staff, including in particular the provision of adequate Employer’s and Public Liability Insurance cover for the Temporary Worker during all assignments but excluding the matters specifically mentioned in Paragraph above.
8.b. The Client shall indemnify and keep indemnified the Employment Business against any costs, claims and liabilities incurred by the Employment Business arising out of the assignment.
8.c. These Terms are governed by the Law of England and Wales jurisdiction of the Courts of England and Wales .
9.No variation can be made to these terms without the written consent of the proprietor.
Signed for and on behalf of the client:
Organisation Name:
Signed:
Print Name:
Date:
Thank you but after reading all of it I thing I should not use this for my Ltd Business in this form. Especially because : i am not temporary worker or self employed… - this is business to business and I do not act as an individual … if I admit that I am under supervision, direction and control of the client it is basically admitting that I operate inside of IR35 . From HMRC point it means I am not allowed to take any dividends from the business and I have to pay myself much higher salaries plus there is restriction for expenses. …
I did not set up business to earn more money but that was first term to get work with most of customers. Even agencies are not keen to operate payroll anymore, instead they want all drivers to set up Ltd. I know it is not right but I have about 20 colleagues in exactly same situation. I know there were some new agencies regulations which is the reason of so many Ltd companies.
marian63:
I did not set up business to earn more money but that was first term to get work with most of customers…
That…
Is the first point of being in business. The extra responsibility, paperwork, accountants fees etc aren’t something you should be taking on if you’re not earning considerably more money. If you can work Ltd for these companies for long periods of time then make enquiries to go full time with them.
Perhaps PAYE is more up your street.
I’m being polite here…
marian63:
Thank you but after reading all of it I thing I should not use this for my Ltd Business in this form. Especially because : i am not temporary worker or self employed… - this is business to business and I do not act as an individual … if I admit that I am under supervision, direction and control of the client it is basically admitting that I operate inside of IR35 . From HMRC point it means I am not allowed to take any dividends from the business and I have to pay myself much higher salaries plus there is restriction for expenses. …
FFS.This is a business to business set of terms and conditions. The person you send to do the work whether that be you or someone else is atemporary worker. Whether you admit you’re under direct supervision or control is neither here nor there as to whether you’re operating inside of IR35, its whether you actually are and that is a determination HMRC will make. They won’t give a flying ■■■■ that you’re sticking your head in the sand, your fingers in your ears going la la la and thinking that if you ignore the fact you are it means you’re not.
As far as HMRC are concerned it is almost impossible to be a self employed driver unless you own the truck.
I did not set up business to earn more money
Yes you did. You’ve even said you set up as Ltd so you can claim expenses and pay yourself via dividend which is doing it to get more money. You’ve got some epic Marian reality distortion field stuff going on in your life haven’t you?
This sums it all up
Where to start??
This is a perfect example of why and how the bottom has been kicked out of our profession. Any (and I mean any) dimwit can now get a licence, and get work through the backdoor, slowly ■■■■■■ up the conditions for us decent employed drivers.
The o.p. can go and fornicate with himself. He sounds like he doesn’t really knows which end of the truck to point forward.
the nodding donkey:
Where to start??This is a perfect example of why and how the bottom has been kicked out of our profession. Any (and I mean any) dimwit can now get a licence, and get work through the backdoor, slowly ■■■■■■ up the conditions for us decent employed drivers.
^^^^
I’ve no sympathy. You still have a choice in road haulage unlike some jobs where it’s all gone ir35 dodging.
marian63:
I have the feeling that many drivers have been pushed to set up ltd just to move responsibility to those small Ltd and we even do not have any way to protect ourselves.
You have a feeling?? Let me help you, it is why you are being pushed onto it. You illegally taking an employers liability off them has them laughing all round the golf course.
The worst part is they do have ways to protect themselves, I even posted one above only for it to be dismissed outright. Laws and regulations are there to protect you but if you don’t use them then you’ve nobody to blame but yourself.
Conor:
The worst part is they do have ways to protect themselves, I even posted one above only for it to be dismissed outright. Laws and regulations are there to protect you but if you don’t use them then you’ve nobody to blame but yourself.
+1 agreed