Brexiteers against free movement?

Grandpa:
Re: Rjan.

The term Marxism stems from its originator – Marx. That he got some aspects wrong doesn’t distract from that as he was correct on many others, primarily explaining capitalism. Thatcher too made many errors, it’s still termed Thatcherism.

I agree a mere modification can still have continuity from the original thinker, but class is so fundamental to Marx that it cannot be rejected (or even made peripheral) whilst maintaining any link to Marxism.

It would be like suggesting that the Soviet economy was “planned Thatcherism” - there is no credible link!

The left were sidelined during the 80s, Thatcher was PM, not Foot or Benn.

Yes, and that is the responsibility of the electorate for sidelining left-wing politics, not the other way around! Your argument was that the left had abandoned the working class - I say the working class were given a clear choice and, at the time, opted for the very arrangements they now suffer.

Of course you’re suggesting Gilets Jaunes is a workers protest, you said so. Let me remind you as you try to backtrack. ‘You say we see no workers’ protests - why is France aflame with its gilets jaunes?’

Where have I backtracked on that?

No Rjan, there wasn’t a drug epidemic in the 30s on the level there is today. The current epidemic is not just in the mining areas, it’s nationwide. There is no correlation to the amount of alcohol and drug misuse due to mine closures and there wasn’t when they were closed. It’s a recent phenomenon.

I never said there was a drug epidemic in the 30s - I specifically said the cost of such products would have made it difficult for working class people to indulge (morphine addictions were mostly the preserve of doctors and other professional classes).

Open borders for populations has nothing to do with free trade and again is a recent deliberate attempt to create a multicultural society. Low wages are a by-product of that. The Tories are not responsible for EU open borders, the EU are. It’s also nothing to do with the ‘right.’ What is creating low wages is the influx of cheap foreign labour as a result of open borders and creating competition in the labour market.

I agree trading goods does not logically entail trading workers. My point is that they are both within the agenda of those who support free markets.

You say the Tories are not responsible for open borders. Why, then, at the first sign of Eastern European migration abating, do they open up new borders, allowing or encouraging flows from areas which would not previously have been allowed?

I agree with you that unfettered competition drives down wages and living standards. But markets and competition, as a glorious ideal, are of the radical right.

No, not ‘whatever the figure may be,’ let me again remind you what you said; ‘whilst paying only £5 an hour to have his toilets cleaned.’ It’s not a ‘limp response’ It’s a factual correction that no one is getting £5ph for working and there is a minimum wage way above £5ph.

And my response is that the exact figure matters not. There isn’t any “minimum wage” in terms of guaranteed hours, so that a cleaner may well receive an income less even than £5 a week, if they are told they aren’t needed that week.

None of that, however, matters to my point, which is that the condition in which the financier lives is related to that of the cleaner - a point which you deny.

I’m not a right or left winger, I present facts and explain. You’re not meant to follow me Rjan, its way above your head. The bottom line is you’re a socialist, you obviously want the EU, so deal with the consequences.

It’s pretty clear you are a right-winger advancing a specific argument, not just here as a passive and neutral font of knowledge.

Just as an aside to the link I gave:

(PDF) Cultural Marxism - Social Chaos | John V Asia Teacher - Academia.edu

‘You can always find someone else to support any old [zb]. You might try having a go to explain the essence of the theory yourself, in a forum where (unlike that author) you can be challenged on it.’

I am the author. It’s what I do in my spare time. You’re welcome to challenge me on it.

Ah haha! :laughing:

Well give me until later on, and I will have a closer look to see how you manage to link any theory you espouse to Marx or a Marxist tradition. Presumably, there will be some references to Marx’s works. I’ll then come back to you.