oaky dokey…where do we get a domestic hours log book from ■■? please dont say his employer as they have less idea than us!!!..no worries and thanks to all for your patience…cheers,stu
spoke to a VOSA enforcement officer on monday…helpfull and human[really suprised !!!]
Hi All…brief outline…sonny jim got his first full time driving job after 12months on agency[whoopee!!!]
heres the prob
hes been taken on as multi - task driver...can be driving class 2 one day,7.5 ton the next and van driving the next prob is where he stands with wtd and drivers hours....when on tachod vehicles we have no problem…driving hours etc pretty straight foreward and understood
its the van work that chucks spanner in the works…his tm insists it doesnt count towards the 90hrs max per 14 days…are we correct in thinking it does■■?
hes racking up around 60hrs p/w including all work!!!!! if we are correct where can we find the info to present to the TM from a credible checkable source that is easily understandable[the tm appears a simple soul and the operators licence obtained by proxy` i think]
if we arnt correct let me know so i can stop worrying that his licence is being put at risk
any advice or info either way appreciated
Thanks to all that have read this…cheers,Stu
As far as I know, the only thing exempt from tacho is 3.5t or less, and then special circumstances like bus drivers who don’t exceed 100km of depot and stuff like that, although I’m not the man to tell you. Someone will be along soon to help. 
I work a taxi as well as my lorry driving and if any tacho related work is done during week I have to log my taxi work as other work and keep a log of it in case im stopped , as i understand it
Any work that comes under eu rules for hgv work you have a tacho to record it any other work has to be logged either manually or on your card with manual entries the rules still apply for weekly rests and wtd beacuse you have done class 2 work on a tacho hope that helps but im sure someone can explain it better for you if you look at the booklet rules on drivers hours and tachographs it is explained in there and can show your sons tm that
all the best
Jen x
newtruckersdad:
Hi All…brief outline…sonny jim got his first full time driving job after 12months on agency[whoopee!!!]
heres the prob
hes been taken on as multi - task driver...can be driving class 2 one day,7.5 ton the next and van driving the next prob is where he stands with wtd and drivers hours....when on tachod vehicles we have no problem…driving hours etc pretty straight foreward and understood
its the van work that chucks spanner in the works…his tm insists it doesnt count towards the 90hrs max per 14 days…are we correct in thinking it does■■?
hes racking up around 60hrs p/w including all work!!!!! if we are correct where can we find the info to present to the TM from a credible checkable source that is easily understandable[the tm appears a simple soul and the operators licence obtained byproxy` i think]
if we arnt correct let me know so i can stop worrying that his licence is being put at riskany advice or info either way appreciated
Thanks to all that have read this…cheers,Stu
His TM is correct about the 90 hours per 14 days, otherwise how would someone be able to go shopping or get home from work in their own car after a busy week.
hi…thanks everyone for the input…still a little confused though…hes working 2>3 days a week on class2/7.5 ton work to the tacho regs[around 12hr shifts in total with other work etc].....the other two days van work[under 3.5 ton]....the van work days can be upto 14hrs....hes working somewhere near 60hrs a week all in…the wtd says it should average out to 48hrs over a 12/24 week period with no exception for mobile workers…its this part thats confusing me…if it was all tacho work its fairly simple[ish!!!]…if the van work is to be logged what would vosa make of 60hr weeks if he gets a pull…
apologies if im looking a bit dim here...i am right in thinking as long his tacho` days are to the rules he has nothing to fear off vosa and can drive the van with limit on his hours…just seems odd when other threads about lads working hgv part time [weekends etc] when they have a full time job elswhere can only do every other weekend due to the rules!!!
sorry to be a pain…no worries…Stu
newtruckersdad:
hi…thanks everyone for the input…still a little confused though…hes working 2>3 days a week on class2/7.5 ton work to the tacho regs[around 12hr shifts in total with other work etc].....the other two days van work[under 3.5 ton]....the van work days can be upto 14hrs....hes working somewhere near 60hrs a week all in…the wtd says it should average out to 48hrs over a 17/26 week period with no exception formobileworkers…its this part thats confusing me…if it was all tacho work its fairly simple[ish!!!]…if the van work is to be logged what would vosa make of 60hr weeks if he gets a pull…
apologies if im looking a bit dim here...i am right in thinking as long histacho` days are to the rules he has nothing to fear off vosa and can drive the van with limit on his hours…just seems odd when other threads about lads working hgv part time [weekends etc] when they have a full time job elswhere can only do every other weekend due to the rules!!!sorry to be a pain…no worries…Stu
Daily duty on domestic hours.
In any working day the maximum amount of duty permitted is 11 hours. A driver is exempt from the daily duty limit (11 hours) on any working day when he does not drive. You can only drive 10 hours in those 24
newtruckersdad:
just seems odd when other threads about lads working hgv part time [weekends etc] when they have a full time job elswhere can only do every other weekend due to the rules!!!
That’s because of the tacho rules and nothing to do with the WTD, their other work doesn’t count toward the WTD for mobile workers.
geting more confused here[must be old age and hot flushes!!!]…heres a scenerio…tell me in simple terms if he`s in the doghouse with vosa…
monday>thurs 6am>6pm…out in van [under 3.5 ton]…4 days @12hr =48hrs [logged in diary]
fri…out in 26 ton class 2, 6am >6pm…9hrs driving 3hrs other work +breaks=12hrs
total for the week 60hrs
if it was all van work no prob…its the mix causing the confusion…doghouse or not ■■?
newtruckersdad:
geting more confused here[must be old age and hot flushes!!!]…heres a scenerio…tell me in simple terms if he`s in the doghouse with vosa…
monday>thurs 6am>6pm…out in van [under 3.5 ton]…4 days @12hr =48hrs [logged in diary]
fri…out in 26 ton class 2, 6am >6pm…9hrs driving 3hrs other work +breaks=12hrs
total for the week 60hrs
if it was all van work no prob…its the mix causing the confusion…doghouse or not ■■?
Doghouse, 
the van work needs recording on a chart, printout, or by means of manual entry in a digi, a diary does not meet the requirements of the regulations.
Unless he has a lot of breaks he is averaging more than the required 48 hours a week, he is less than the 60 hour maximum, but that is for the WTD and VOSA aren’t prosecuting for that, just offering advice.
just a very stupid question do you have to log other driving? if vosa pulled you, could you not just say i only work days that are tacho’d and be done with it?
jimmypk:
just a very stupid question do you have to log other driving? if vosa pulled you, could you not just say i only work days that are tacho’d and be done with it?
You could but if they are suspicious and look into it further you may end up facing a charge of falsifying records/fraud. Maximum penalty £5000 and/or 2 year jail term. Worth it? You decide, there is a thread on the main forum about a Moroccan driver who is currently doing 6 months for tacho fraud.
the best thing your lad can do is find out from the Road Haulage association where and when there next area meeting is and go along and ask the area rep his oppinion you dont have to be a member or own your own truck and if its near dorset you would always be welcome as one day you might be a member. as far as i know all work in what ever vehicle counts, even if you go out in a private car with another driver to collect a vehicle from a service.work is work and the moment you put a card in the tachograph all work that week is the same as if you were in the truck all week and truck rules apply. i think you will find.
So is there a special booklet to write down these ‘other hours’ if a diary isn’t good enough?! 
Saratoga:
So is there a special booklet to write down these ‘other hours’ if a diary isn’t good enough?!
No, see my earlier post.
hi coffee…thanks for all the help…[think he`s doing his adr with you shortly!!!]…a quick update…
the firm supply him with a chart wallet that he records his `van work` on…so that hopefully keeps him legal!!!
spoke to a VOSA enforcement officer on monday…helpfull and human[really suprised !!!]
His take on it is…not interested in the van work unless a tachoed vehicle is used any time in the working week…as soon as he jumps in a tachoed vehicle and inserts card or chart he must adhere to EU regs all week including any work[vans included] previously…He agreed that this is a grey area and open to interpretation but what he would act on and take further…i asked if there was anywhere i could get the info in plain english to present to the TM…he pointed me towards tachodisc…saying their outlines do a pretty good job…had a look and it all still looks grey to me[same colour as my hairs turning}
I think part of the problem here is hes salaried[based on 48hrs].... the firm are trying to get as much for their money as they can....alot of their other drivers doing 7.5 ton work are on grandfather rightsand blissfully unaware of the consequences of going over hours because they are on job and knock....i think the TM is slowly realising the probs need to be adressed and its not sonny jim beingarsey`.thanks to all !!
newtruckersdad:
hi coffee…thanks for all the help…[think he`s doing his adr with you shortly!!!]…a quick update…
I hope not, I know nothing about ADR.
newtruckersdad:
the firm supply him with a chart wallet that he records hisvan workon…so that hopefully keeps him legal!!!
It won’t, it must be on a chart, a printout or by means of a manual entry on the digi tacho, or a domestic log book if he falls under those rules. Nothing else, diaries, notebooks, chart envelopes or the like is legal.
newtruckersdad:
spoke to a VOSA enforcement officer on monday…helpfull and human[really suprised !!!]His take on it is…not interested in the van work unless a tachoed vehicle is used any time in the
working week…as soon as he jumps in a tachoed vehicle and inserts card or chart he must adhere to EU regs all week including any work[vans included] previously…
Correct, looks like you found a good un.
newtruckersdad:
He agreed that this is agreyarea and open to interpretation but what he would act on and take further…
Oh dear, and he was doing so well. There is nothing grey about the area at all. It’s written in plain English in VOSA’s own guide to the tacho rules.
Coffeeholic:
newtruckersdad:
hi coffee…thanks for all the help…[think he`s doing his adr with you shortly!!!]…a quick update…I hope not, I know nothing about ADR.
newtruckersdad:
the firm supply him with a chart wallet that he records hisvan workon…so that hopefully keeps him legal!!!It won’t, it must be on a chart, a printout or by means of a manual entry on the digi tacho, or a domestic log book if he falls under those rules. Nothing else, diaries, notebooks, chart envelopes or the like is legal.
newtruckersdad:
spoke to a VOSA enforcement officer on monday…helpfull and human[really suprised !!!]His take on it is…not interested in the van work unless a tachoed vehicle is used any time in the
working week…as soon as he jumps in a tachoed vehicle and inserts card or chart he must adhere to EU regs all week including any work[vans included] previously…Correct, looks like you found a good un.
newtruckersdad:
He agreed that this is agreyarea and open to interpretation but what he would act on and take further…Oh dear, and he was doing so well.
Do you think the VOSA man is a part time trainer for Tachodisc CPC
