I’m glad ive started on the fridges 
Since this thread is onto its 3rd page Iam just posting the link incase folks miss it.
Scroll down to section 16
Curtainsiders!!!
Own Account Driver:
I didn’t say majority of rollovers of you haven’t said never with any load on.I doubt VOSA will be cracking many containers open to check the load inside though a bet a fair few go over due to poor loading.
Never said you did say the majority mate! Just contributing with, in my experience, the majority of curtains cannot contain the load. When they are recovered with the load contained, that’s usually down to the recovery technique rather than the integrity of the curtain.
We’ve known a few containers go over due to poor loading. Recently, a 40’ down at Teesport, trailer fell over on the A66 only a mile or so out of the port.
Inside were bales of paper, not new paper, but apparently high value. They were compressed incubes, but were too big to stack 3 wide, so they were stacked roof to floor down each side with nothing in the middle!
Driver gets to a round about, the load falls into the gap in the middle and over it goes.
Which raises another question: When the trailer is sealed, how can the driver know if the load is properly loaded/stacked/secured?
I took a double decker down the road the other day for a mate, the curtains were sealed. How does the driver know if the load is strapped properly, or the forky hasn’t put all the heavy stuff on the top deck?
cieranc:
Own Account Driver:
Which raises another question: When the trailer is sealed, how can the driver know if the load is properly loaded/stacked/secured?
I took a double decker down the road the other day for a mate, the curtains were sealed. How does the driver know if the load is strapped properly, or the forky hasn’t put all the heavy stuff on the top deck?
WHich is a very good point.
The code of practice suggests (and the HSE recommend) that paperwork is supplied with the load. This gives details of weights, type of load, where/how it is loaded and what securing methods have been used (if any). I’ve got it in my head there is a suggested layout for such paperwork somewhere in the code of practice or on the HSE website … may be wrong.
A little diagram so the loader can draw on where the big stuff is and the little stuff etc Tick boxes for what kind of lashings (chain/strap/rope/none) have been used. Boxes for weights, load description etc. Too easy really isn’t it?
Driver turns up - trailer is sealed. he checks the loading sheet and it shows no load securing has been used and there are three coils of paper product weighing 5t each inside and the little line drawing shows them stood upright on the rolly side … “Err … sorry” says the driver “I can’t take this load because it appears to be unsafe”. Big fuss is caused but driver remains safe and alive 
Mate of mine lost his leg from just below the knee around eight years ago. He’d just picked up a container and was only 8 miles out of the port - roundabout and over it went. Apparently all the pallets were down one side and they fell over taking the trailer with them. He’s never worked since (although still rides bikes off road - he has a trail riding leg as well as a walking leg and apparently a shopping leg )
In his case both his employer and the shipping company were prosecuted. Had the loaders been in this country I am sure they would have been as well.
We just wanted to respond to clarify a few points in relation to the VOSA matrix for load restraint and what it means to operators.
Firstly, it has been suggested here that curtains can offer load restraint. This is not the case. Even with bodywork and curtains rated to the demanding EN12642-XL European standard, curtains only provide load containment.
Neither is it acceptable to use single track/twin-track poles with vertical webbing straps. Even when crossing straps diagonally over the load, this does not apply downward force to the load and does not therefore comply.
The DfT/HSE recommendations have always followed the line that load should, where possible, be strapped down to the deck. This practice ensures that the friction between the load and the deck is maintained when travelling over uneven ground. As friction is maintained, the load is less likely to side-shift. This is one of the key priciples to load restraint. Improving the rating of side curtains or side nets will not affect this recommendation; which is now being enforced by VOSA through their matrix guidelines.
When considering load restraint, there are systems available on the market that are compliant with the recommendations. They are simple to include in new build or to retro-fit to existing vehicles. Don-Bur for example, manufacture a number of cost-effective solutions to cater for the majority of load restraint requirements, including anything for soft packaging to crushable loads, to paper reels and even beer barrels and can/bottle stacks.
In addition to approaching VOSA direct, we offer no-obligation advice on the most suitable load restraint system for your operation. You are welcome to contact us on 01782 599 666.
from what don bur has said. the only way is a completely new load restraint system, something that will comply.
and i have an idea. Not one of my crazy ideas. a real workable solution.
but that’s all it is. an idea. i don’t have the land, the money, or the resources to build a working prototype.
Don-Bur:
We just wanted to respond to clarify a few points in relation to the VOSA matrix for load restraint and what it means to operators.Firstly, it has been suggested here that curtains can offer load restraint. This is not the case. Even with bodywork and curtains rated to the demanding EN12642-XL European standard, curtains only provide load containment.
Neither is it acceptable to use single track/twin-track poles with vertical webbing straps. Even when crossing straps diagonally over the load, this does not apply downward force to the load and does not therefore comply.
The DfT/HSE recommendations have always followed the line that load should, where possible, be strapped down to the deck. This practice ensures that the friction between the load and the deck is maintained when travelling over uneven ground. As friction is maintained, the load is less likely to side-shift. This is one of the key priciples to load restraint. Improving the rating of side curtains or side nets will not affect this recommendation; which is now being enforced by VOSA through their matrix guidelines.
When considering load restraint, there are systems available on the market that are compliant with the recommendations. They are simple to include in new build or to retro-fit to existing vehicles. Don-Bur for example, manufacture a number of cost-effective solutions to cater for the majority of load restraint requirements, including anything for soft packaging to crushable loads, to paper reels and even beer barrels and can/bottle stacks.
In addition to approaching VOSA direct, we offer no-obligation advice on the most suitable load restraint system for your operation. You are welcome to contact us on 01782 599 666.
Very Good post and before Rikki arrives with his scissors, it needs to be left in this thread. Don-Bur build trailers, they build to customer specification and they have to know the legalities. When we carried live chickens and loose ball bearings on a flat bed, we had to be more careful. 
Nowadays the laws are there to protect the driver, now when the spotty oik is pressuring you and says "where are you?. You can tell him to go do one, as you are securing those 26 pallets of toilet rolls but I am waiting for the safety ramp as I am not allowed to climb on the trailer
Interesting point raised by don bur, only a downward restraint is fully secure. Makes internal straps pretty much redundant. I can see a return to roping and sheeting, but in a curtainsider 
Ive got a what if…
So your company doesn’t supply straps, no internal straps either. But on the whole 95% of loads really dont need strapped low weight high cube. But we are starting to get some ehhhh lets call them dodgy loads. Like tesco loads where you have 52 pallets double stacked with no restraint at the rear just the other week i had one coup at the back doors. Then we have these things bulk bags of grain which really concern me, they weigh about 500kg 24 pallets are loaded with 2 stacks of mts to stop them falling over at the back. But these things lean into a curtain like you wouldn’t believe. I mean the bulge is about 1ft and the tension on the curtain straps is extreme.
Now another depots driver knocked a load back last week which has kinda put the cat amongst the pigeons, he just said it was unsafe and buggered off. If i was to knock this load back would i get disciplinary action? Could i take this load into a vosa site and get them to act or would i still get fined?
What is the fine and is there points?
These are the sacks in question you can see the lean already and they haven’t even been in transit yet
merc0447:
Ive got a what if…So your company doesn’t supply straps, no internal straps either. But on the whole 95% of loads really dont need strapped low weight high cube. But we are starting to get some ehhhh lets call them dodgy loads. Like tesco loads where you have 52 pallets double stacked with no restraint at the rear just the other week i had one coup at the back doors. Then we have these things bulk bags of grain which really concern me, they weigh about 500kg 24 pallets are loaded with 2 stacks of mts to stop them falling over at the back. But these things lean into a curtain like you wouldn’t believe. I mean the bulge is about 1ft and the tension on the curtain straps is extreme.
Now another depots driver knocked a load back last week which has kinda put the cat amongst the pigeons, he just said it was unsafe and buggered off. If i was to knock this load back would i get disciplinary action? Could i take this load into a vosa site and get them to act or would i still get fined?
What is the fine and is there points?
These are the sacks in question you can see the lean already and they haven’t even been in transit yet
As far as I know, the curtains are to be classed as a form of weather protection only. Not a form of load restraint! So just imagine your bulk bags have been loaded onto a flat bed. You wouldn’t even consider taking the load out onto the road without it being strapped and secured if this was the case. Or would you? So I would say you would be well within your rights to knock the load back too. It is the law now after all. They cant argue with that.
cut all drivers down to 40 hours a week then the roads will be a safer place and more jobs will become available,simples !!!
Wages would have to go up then wouldn’t they?
Asked for straps this morning to be told they didn’t have any and none were needed. Explained vosa latest and the tm said it wasn’t a priority and just to get off and do the run. Nothing I would say would change his mind. Not sure if that will make any difference with vosa. Perhaps I need some pre-printed form that states “Company manager refuses to provide straps to secure the load and accepts all responsibility as a result” date time sign and print name.
I’m only an agency driver. What do I know!!!
Jesus what next. where has the common sense gone in our society.
I think we professional drivers should know how to secure a load and if you dont then ask and get some help.
I have been driving class one since 1982 both here and on the continent, [how things have changed] the majority of that in the steel sector.
I must say that common sense has been thrown completly out of the window in favour of a no risk society.
things have gone too far and this is due to the … where there is blame,there is a claim culture…
at this rate we will have to send our transport managers a memo before we move our bowels.
I have no doubt that the gestappo [sorry vosa] are giong milk this particular cash cow for all its worth.
In anticipation…
Regards tzz
i have said this many, many times, that the reason vosa are thinking up these stupid rules up is for TAX, TAX, TAX, TAX, TAX. They have been told by government bods to raise as much tax through fines as the can. Same as the DCPC, it’s a tax. I’ll bet many countrys wont do it, but we will coz it’s TAX time boys…again.
twozuluzlu:
‘…where has the common sense gone in our society…’
Society swallowed the bait set by Blair in accepting ‘diversity’ as being wonderfully fantastic - ie, it kept schtum when he was bulldozing in millions of international immigrants (and their immigrant cultures) to come and dilute the UK’s once proud and ‘common’ identity.
Surely, only bigots think otherwise
twozuluzlu:
Jesus what next. where has the common sense gone in our society.
I think we professional drivers should know how to secure a load and if you dont then ask and get some help.
I have been driving class one since 1982 both here and on the continent, [how things have changed] the majority of that in the steel sector.
I must say that common sense has been thrown completly out of the window in favour of a no risk society.
things have gone too far and this is due to the … where there is blame,there is a claim culture…
at this rate we will have to send our transport managers a memo before we move our bowels.
I have no doubt that the gestappo [sorry vosa] are giong milk this particular cash cow for all its worth.
In anticipation…
Regards tzz
Absolutely spot on.
I delivered to Pets at Home at Stoke last week. Undid all my straps in the pouring rain on a load we never used to strap till Vosa moved the goalposts .Told to back on a bay near some of their empty double deckers which had the curtains drawn back . None of these trailers had any straps at all fitted or any other form of load resraint . Is there a different rule about load security on these trailers. Over to you Mr VOSA man .
eric the judge:
I delivered to Pets at Home at Stoke last week. Undid all my straps in the pouring rain on a load we never used to strap till Vosa moved the goalposts .Told to back on a bay near some of their empty double deckers which had the curtains drawn back . None of these trailers had any straps at all fitted or any other form of load resraint . Is there a different rule about load security on these trailers. Over to you Mr VOSA man .
They may have certified Load bearing curtains?
Happy Keith:
twozuluzlu:
‘…where has the common sense gone in our society…’Society swallowed the bait set by Blair in accepting ‘diversity’ as being wonderfully fantastic - ie, it kept schtum when he was bulldozing in millions of international immigrants (and their immigrant cultures) to come and dilute the UK’s once proud and ‘common’ identity.
Surely, only bigots think otherwise
I will give you that one Gordon!!!
Happy Keith:
twozuluzlu:
‘…where has the common sense gone in our society…’Society swallowed the bait set by Blair in accepting ‘diversity’ as being wonderfully fantastic - ie, it kept schtum when he was bulldozing in millions of international immigrants (and their immigrant cultures) to come and dilute the UK’s once proud and ‘common’ identity.
Surely, only bigots think otherwise
Milliband said recently your’e not a bigot to think this way in an apology to the British public. Too late mate! The damage is done.
Eric the judge,did you use the cheap canteen at Pets at home in Stoke,was Lisa at the goods in cabin,or the french guy Pascule?