Your first link shows UK growth up to 1972 including a negative GDP per capita of 6.8% in 1968.
There was no loss of GDP in 1968, certainly nothing as grave as 6.8%!
Such figures shouldn’t have passed a sanity check. There was a single quarter in 1968 where the economy lost 0.6% (a tenth of what you state), but the other three quarters of that year combined to leave the economy several percent up YoY.
I think you must have misinterpreted the source.
As for 1973 and the Common Market, any analysis will be confounded by the effect of the oil shock in October 1973, which led to several subsequent quarters of negative growth.
The main problem in the 1970s was not loss of growth. In fact, the perceived problem was not that growth was generally negative, it was that growth wasn’t even higher, and that Britain was falling behind higher growth rates in Europe (a pattern that had first emerged in the 50s iirc).
Blimey it must have been some oil shock that saw us go from 3rd in the international ranking in 1972 firstly to 4th by 1980 then 5th by 1990 and it’s obvious that things only got worse to date.Also bearing in mind that we were actually self sufficient in oil and gas and coal during the period in question from 72’ to 80’ at least.
Remainers are keen to refer to the value of the pound.But notice that Franglais hasn’t answered that challenge regarding the £/$ exchange rate as it stood in 1972 as opposed to date.As for trade union rights compared to then and since don’t even go there.
Your first link shows UK growth up to 1972 including a negative GDP per capita of 6.8% in 1968.
There was no loss of GDP in 1968, certainly nothing as grave as 6.8%! [emoji38]
Such figures shouldn’t have passed a sanity check. There was a single quarter in 1968 where the economy lost 0.6% (a tenth of what you state), but the other three quarters of that year combined to leave the economy several percent up YoY.
I think you must have misinterpreted the source.
As for 1973 and the Common Market, any analysis will be confounded by the effect of the oil shock in October 1973, which led to several subsequent quarters of negative growth.
The main problem in the 1970s was not loss of growth. In fact, the perceived problem was not that growth was generally negative, it was that growth wasn’t even higher, and that Britain was falling behind higher growth rates in Europe (a pattern that had first emerged in the 50s iirc).
Blimey it must have been some oil shock that saw us go from 3rd in the international ranking in 1972 firstly to 4th by 1980 then 5th by 1990 and it’s obvious that things only got worse to date.Also bearing in mind that we were actually self sufficient in oil and gas and coal during the period in question from 72’ to 80’ at least.
Remainers are keen to refer to the value of the pound.But notice that Franglais hasn’t answered that challenge regarding the £/$ exchange rate as it stood in 1972 as opposed to date.As for trade union rights compared to then and since don’t even go there.
FFS. Read the link I provided!
It IS in $ US
And trade union rights as we’ve already discussed have been eroded in this country by our National Gov laws not EU
Carryfast:
Ironically ‘crap to work for’ in large part being because government transport policy is dedicated to removing the ‘best quality work’ and returning the industry to its position in the 1930’s.IE a localised delivery service in which ‘drivers’ actually spend more hours in a shift doing ‘other duties’ than driving anywhere.
If its localised then why do we have 10,000 fewer HGVs than half a century ago moving much more stuff much further?
And it has nothing to do with government transport policy, rather it is due to business discovering the savings involved in just in time operations.
Franglais:
And trade union rights as we’ve already discussed have been eroded in this country by our National Gov laws not EU
I agree. At any given time, working rights have generally been stronger on the continent than in the UK.
They have not been competed down or eroded by the EU - on the contrary, it has mostly been the other way around, with Brits voting in the Tories to attack their pay and conditions, followed belatedly by the Germans and French accepting “reforms” when they find Britain is engaging in pure undercutting.
Your first link shows UK growth up to 1972 including a negative GDP per capita of 6.8% in 1968.
There was no loss of GDP in 1968, certainly nothing as grave as 6.8%! [emoji38]
Such figures shouldn’t have passed a sanity check. There was a single quarter in 1968 where the economy lost 0.6% (a tenth of what you state), but the other three quarters of that year combined to leave the economy several percent up YoY.
I think you must have misinterpreted the source.
As for 1973 and the Common Market, any analysis will be confounded by the effect of the oil shock in October 1973, which led to several subsequent quarters of negative growth.
The main problem in the 1970s was not loss of growth. In fact, the perceived problem was not that growth was generally negative, it was that growth wasn’t even higher, and that Britain was falling behind higher growth rates in Europe (a pattern that had first emerged in the 50s iirc).
No.
I quoted the CF link.
That does show a fall in
GDP PER CAPITA which is what I said.
1967 $2018
1968 $1892
Loss of over 6%
You are saying there was no fall in GDP, which is true, but I didn’t say that.
.
I don’t know of events then and haven’t looked for any. Explaining away good or bad individual years would be a distraction but it does help give the lie to the C.F. view
Before EU good.
After EU bad.
Could almost write that slogan on the wall of Mr Jones’s Farm!
Mazzer2:
Because at present there is no alternative the Labour party is now so far removed from the working class that it does not offer an option, the labour party should split, with the metropolitan elite from London leaving and eventually disappearing up their own arse, thus enabling the rest of the country a chance to vote for a Labour party that does have the vested interests of the working class at it’s core. Had to laugh at a Labour voter form Hackney calling brexiteers thick on the radio yet he can’t see the irony in having voted for Diane Abbott who opposes private education yet privately educated her son, the hypocrisy of London’s Labour MP’s knows no bounds and most only have contact with the working class when their bog is broke yet they are the ones influencing the party
This ^^^^^^^^
The Labour Party in it’s present form is a ■■■■ joke.
The leadership election of Corbyn was the best thing that could have happened for the Tories, then at the other end of the scale we have the ‘‘New’’ labour style of politicians, types like Blair and Brown who both ■■■■ ed up and virtually bankrupt our country, stripping our gold reserve assets, and stealing pension provisions.
To use an old Tory phrase, they should get ‘Back to basics’ and go back to their roots as a trade union (don’t even comment some of the brainwashed) based party who’s raison d’etre was to look after the interests of the working class…aka US.
The founders of that party must be spinning in their graves.
As for this thread , 2 ■■■■ pages and running, when it could have been answered in two words…‘‘NOBODY KNOWS’’ !
I’m totally ■■■■■■ off to the point of depression by all the doom and gloom from these ■■■■ remainer whingers on here and in general.
Stop running down and bad mouthing our country, and if you really want to continue living among a corrupt political union move to France, Germany or Holland …but do not be surprised if/when after these countries see the UK at the very least managing, or at the best booming , joining the band wagon of getting to ■■■■ out of the EU (the main reason for the policy of EU non co.operation making a mutually beneficial deal btw…cos they are ■■■■■■■■ themselves)
My personal mantra in life when faced with problems has always been ‘‘Re.act and adapt’’ and it’s always worked for me…some of you remoaning ■■■■ whingers should face up to the democratic result, shut the ■■■■ up, and do just that.
Franglais:
So there we are, not lower wages for truck drivers.
There won`t be any truck drivers as we will have no industry for them to service.
The vast majority of lorries aren’t servicing the manufacturing industry. The majority of trucks are moving food, parcels and goods for purchase at retail.
AndieHyde:
Mate you have it all wrong, unshakeled from European “labor laws” , Great Britain will now able to go out into the international market place and recruit the cheapest people from around the WHOLE world.
But we can already do that. Being in the EU doesn’t stop that happening.
As for wages declining, I don’t think so. As the tap of easy accessible European labour is turned off it’ll go up as haulage isn’t going to be placed on the Tier 2 visa list any time soon.
Already the agency where I’m at are panicking and we’ve just had a 9% wage rise to go on top of the 6% wage rise we had the year before on the contract I’m on to ensure they can retain the drivers they’ve got and get enough drivers to cover the busiest period of the year. Agency some nights can form 50% of the shift and apart from 3/4 of us the rest are Eastern Europeans. During their busy period agency form over 50% of the entire fleet.
The lowest paid sector of the service industry is already on your precious list, nurses and chefs, there is constant demand for radiographers and nurses, the local job markets often carry adverts for Bangladeshi chefs
Franglais:
FFS. Read the link I provided!
It IS in $ US
And trade union rights as we’ve already discussed have been eroded in this country by our National Gov laws not EU
Remainers are all for quoting exchange rates when it suits them no surprise you had to duck the question which I’ll answer for you.
1962 £1 = 2.8 USD
1970 £1 = 2.39 USD
1972 £1 = 2.45 USD
1983 £1 = 1.48 USD
1993 £1 = 1.45 USD.
2003 £1 = 1.62 USD
20013 it was 1.53 USD
today it stands at £1 = 1.22 USD
Going by the remainers own standards that’s a clear enough statement before EU good after EU bad.
As for trade union rights.The point is the EU obviously never stepped in to extinguish Thatcher’s bonfire of trade union rights on the basis of them under cutting European standards.Just like it has no intention of imposing an EU minimum wage and equalising the East Euro economies.Or for that matter repealing its free markets laws which stop protectionism and state aid for strategic industries.Preferring instead to allow China to tender for European infrastructure projects using Chinese made components and materials.EU good for the workers bs.
Franglais:
]No.
I quoted the CF link.
That does show a fall in
GDP PER CAPITA which is what I said.
1967 $2018
1968 $1892
Loss of over 6%
You are saying there was no fall in GDP, which is true, but I didn’t say that.
That just thickens the plot, because how can you reconcile healthy overall growth with a significant loss per capita?
I wonder whether we aren’t just seeing the effects of currency movements, if the figures are quoted in dollars.
Franglais:
]No.
I quoted the CF link.
That does show a fall in
GDP PER CAPITA which is what I said.
1967 $2018
1968 $1892
Loss of over 6%
You are saying there was no fall in GDP, which is true, but I didn’t say that.
That just thickens the plot, because how can you reconcile healthy overall growth with a significant loss per capita?
I wonder whether we aren’t just seeing the effects of currency movements, if the figures are quoted in dollars.
It was a CarryFast source…
And for myself, although you’re right, seeming contraction in data is fascinating, not here and now?
Rjan:
I agree. At any given time, working rights have generally been stronger on the continent than in the UK.
They have not been competed down or eroded by the EU - on the contrary, it has mostly been the other way around, with Brits voting in the Tories to attack their pay and conditions, followed belatedly by the Germans and French accepting “reforms” when they find Britain is engaging in pure undercutting.
Didn’t hear the German unions backing their Brit counterparts when the Brits were accused of being lazy militants.Or blacking the transfer of industry from UK factories to German ones such as Ford and GM.Usually and often based on the excuse of militant Brit workers v their less militant German counterparts.Oh wait firstly Callaghan’s supporters then the Blairites agreed with the bosses.EU Federalists/Soviet Socialists trying to re write history to support their own agenda really are avin a larf.
It would be nice if a Government helped the “Driving Market” out - by lowering taxes on OVERTIME. Two people earn £50k. One, a Driver, has to work 60 hours to get that much, the other, a Manager - gets it as a salary, enabling themselves to get that much even when off sick or on holiday, plus getting Tax Offsets and Expenses, allowing them to take home more money for less hours worked. The Docket King - ends up breaking into 40% tax, that has to be paid in FULL, even though they work in the transport industry, that any sensible person might think SHOULD be the ones able to claim “travel expenses”… When off sick - they also lose money hand-over-fist, because their “Basic” is far lower, with sick pay (if they are lucky!) being based on that “Basic”. Government needs to encourage Employers to be GENEROUS then I suggest. Another way - is for Governments to disallow the “first minimum wage of earnings” to NOT be offsettable for Corporation Tax. This would make hiring an army of “Minimum wagers” VERY expensive for a large employer compared to hiring fewer people on higher wages. Think about it “Expenses offset against Company Tax ONLY on the amount above and beyond the current minimum wage rate”. At present, employers create far too many “Minimum wage jobs” both because they can and because it allows that other fiddle to take place: “Employing everyone in your family, so you qualify for maximum tax credits”. A “fake” member of staff working 30 hours per week @ minimum wages - gets maximum working tax credit, regardless of there being any kids involved or not. Why do you think there are so many “Hand Car Wash” or “Self Employed Uber Drivers” about?
Every driver that hangs up their keys for good - is one driver less in the market place. If that driver isn’t replaced by someone coming in - then a driver shortage develops.
How many migrants are now returning home, or finding better paid employment outside the transport industry in this country? - Either create one side of the “shortage”.
How many NEW migrants are coming here, or NEW drivers qualifying from our stockpile of under-educated teenagers? - These create the pressure “the other way”.
I would suggest the former number is RISING, and the latter number is FALLING.
This means there continues to be a driver shortage that will likely get more acute over time, going forward. “Brexit done, or not”.
Odd days:
Leave, remain or what ever will make no difference now. They have a taste for low wages and nothing will change now what ever happens.
The only ones with a taste for “Low Wages” are those tanked up on Tax Credits, surely?
Then one day… Eastern Europeans wake up and realize that if the Non-EU migrants are voting Labour - then they might like to get involved themselves, and put a stop to the forces that drive even the EE wages down! “Top Up Benefits” which they might no longer be getting post-Brexit…
Reading some of the posts which some seem quite bizarre.
Could somebody please explain how non EU citizens who do not have the right to settle in this country unless they have valuable skills (Doctors Nurses and the professions that we are in short supply of) are now suddenly going to be able to come here in great numbers and drive trucks when nobody including those from the EU are no longer allowed.
Not what a man down the pub told you, proper documented legislation.
mike68:
Reading some of the posts which some seem quite bizarre.
Could somebody please explain how non EU citizens who do not have the right to settle in this country unless they have valuable skills (Doctors Nurses and the professions that we are in short supply of) are now suddenly going to be able to come here in great numbers and drive trucks when nobody including those from the EU are no longer allowed.
Not what a man down the pub told you, proper documented legislation.
Like drivers we aren’t actually in short supply of doctors and nurses.We’re actually in short supply of people prepared to work 12 hour ( + handover time,making it 13 hour ),shifts.To save the NHS the cost of employing a third more staff working 3 shifts of 8 ( 9 ) hours.Or for that matter compete with third world workers who are happy to use a two up two down Victorian house as a communal 4 bedsit flat share.As for junior doctors hours don’t even go there.
, 2 ■■■■ pages and running, when it could have been answered in two words…‘‘NOBODY KNOWS’’ ! 
…but do not be surprised if/when after these countries see the UK at the very least managing, or at the best booming , joining the band wagon of getting to ■■■■ out of the EU (the main reason for the policy of EU non co.operation making a mutually beneficial deal btw…cos they are ■■■■■■■■ themselves)