Captain Caveman 76:
If he’d have looked down the road as he approached the turn he would have seen the bike. Simple forward planning.
His view of which would have been better throughout the turn,let alone all the ‘other’ benefits of keeping more to the correct side of the road being entered,from a wider position on the approach. 
albion1971:
alder:
The-Snowman:
I love this site. A clip of one driver making an error by not looking and after 4 pages suddenly its the whole training industry to blame!Yes and those of us with experience know that the lorry driver could not see the motorbike as his nearside mirror blocked it from view. The lorry driver would have first known when he hit it. Nice to see TNUK CSI in action though
And the professionals amongst us would have kept our speed down and moved our head about to avoid the mirror blind spot… Dear oh dear where do all these clowns come from.
Clowns don’t get much funnier than those who think that it’s ok to turn left with a truck from the same position as they’d be in to go straight on,at any speed.
100% HIAB driver’s fault here.
No contest. Biker was on correct side of road, and even kept back at the junction to give the HIAB a bit of room.
Note, No PPM.
Captions for the old dear on a postcard…
“Looks like you could use my eyes… Well, you can have my eyes when I’m dead sonny - I still carry my old 70’s kevin keegan-as-seen-on-tv donor card!”
Carryfast:
The-Snowman:
I love this site. A clip of one driver making an error by not looking and after 4 pages suddenly its the whole training industry to blame!Let me guess you’re another of those who really thinks that was all about observation.As opposed to position on the approach to the turn putting the wagon totally on the wrong side and then some of the road being entered.
Of course its all about observation. What else can it be about? He was turning left into a tight road meaning he had to take up the opposite side of the road. Nowt wrong with that (whether he HAD to or not is neither here nor there) But when you need to do that,you need to LOOK (and this is the observation part) and see if there is any oncoming traffic. And if there is then you wait to see if they let you keep turning or if you need to wait on them leaving the road.
Best case scenario,he was so busy making sure he didnt ride the pavement and forgot to check where the bike was. Worst case scenario,he didnt even see it or look into the road before he turned.
And I cant even be bothered to try and decipher what the hell your trying to say in your last sentence since its pointless. The position on approach is moot since before you turn you are supposed to look (theres that observation thing again) before turning. This enables you (try to stay with me here) to see anything in the road which may hinder your progress (things like,say, a guy on a motorbike) and since you’ve looked,you’ll see them no bother and not run them over.
To try and turn this into a debate about the whole training methoeds being at fault is the most ridiculous thing ive ever heard. How many tight left turns are made by large vehicles on a daily basis? Hundreds? Thousands? Millions? If it was the way drivers are trained thats the problem dont you think it would have been addressed as a major problem before now?
Im all for sticking up for fellow drivers when Joe public wants someone strung up when they dont understand the things we need to do to drive HGVs but in this instance,I cant see how it can be the fault of anyone or anything other than the lorry driver. And for what its worth,I dont believe this guy is an actual danger or needed arrested. I think he just had a momentery brain ■■■■ and either misjudged the distance for the bike or forgot to re check where he was when making sure he didnt run over the woman with the pram
Huh, I was wrong! 
The Snowman gave slightly more of a crap than I thought he would!
No its just carryfast trying to be a hgv driving expert again but cant no dcpc.So comes on here a gibbers pish.
The-Snowman:
Of course its all about observation. What else can it be about? He was turning left into a tight road meaning he had to take up the opposite side of the road. Nowt wrong with that (whether he HAD to or not is neither here nor there) But when you need to do that,you need to LOOK (and this is the observation part) and see if there is any oncoming traffic. And if there is then you wait to see if they let you keep turning or if you need to wait on them leaving the road.
Best case scenario,he was so busy making sure he didnt ride the pavement and forgot to check where the bike was. Worst case scenario,he didnt even see it or look into the road before he turned.
And I cant even be bothered to try and decipher what the hell your trying to say in your last sentence since its pointless. The position on approach is moot since before you turn you are supposed to look (theres that observation thing again) before turning. This enables you (try to stay with me here) to see anything in the road which may hinder your progress (things like,say, a guy on a motorbike) and since you’ve looked,you’ll see them no bother and not run them over.
To try and turn this into a debate about the whole training methoeds being at fault is the most ridiculous thing ive ever heard. How many tight left turns are made by large vehicles on a daily basis? Hundreds? Thousands? Millions? If it was the way drivers are trained thats the problem dont you think it would have been addressed as a major problem before now?
When we’ve got millions of left turns being made in a way which could, foreseeably.Result in a vehicle running over a motorcycle that’s on the correct side of the road with the ‘nearside’ front wheel.While putting the offside front corner over the offside pavement thereby also foreseeably putting pedestrians at risk.On the road being entered,during a left turn on the basis of minimising the amount of space left to the nearside on the approach road,in order to maximise the amount of space left on the nearside on the entry road.We have got a major problem.
IE positioning is just as important as observation and in this case yes we know that turning left means putting the vehicle well over to the offside.The difference being that it is always better to maximise the amount that is taken on the approach road in order to minimise the amount taken on the entry road.
Anything which says different is just car driver methods being transferred to trucks with inevitable results.
On that note regardless of the cyclist issue.This is obviously another example of the same left turn training regime in action.IE minimise the amount of space taken on the approach and maximise it on the road being turned into.
Colin_scottish:
No its just carryfast trying to be a hgv driving expert again but cant no dcpc.So comes on here a gibbers pish.
No it’s not ‘just’ me saying it.I’ll list you as another one of the ‘drivers’ who’d turn left there using the same positioning as the muppet in the video.
Carryfast:
Colin_scottish:
No its just carryfast trying to be a hgv driving expert again but cant no dcpc.So comes on here a gibbers pish.No it’s not ‘just’ me saying it.I’ll list you as another one of the ‘drivers’ who’d turn left there using the same positioning as the muppet in the video.
Why thank you NOT.I am aware on how to drive my artic round a corner its called awareness.Just to make you aware since you know everything i have done my advanded driver training in cars buses and hgv both class.That training was done when in the army and also done my blue light police responce training in northern ireland that was on e.o.d trucks.The joys of carryfast join next time so he can gibber some more pish.
Carryfast:
When we’ve got millions of left turns being made in a way which could, foreseeably.Result in a vehicle running over a motorcycle that’s on the correct side of the road with the ‘nearside’ front wheel.While putting the offside front corner over the offside pavement thereby also foreseeably putting pedestrians at risk.On the road being entered,during a left turn on the basis of minimising the amount of space left to the nearside on the approach road,in order to maximise the amount of space left on the nearside on the entry road.We have got a major problem.IE positioning is just as important as observation and in this case yes we know that turning left means putting the vehicle well over to the offside.The difference being that it is always better to maximise the amount that is taken on the approach road in order to minimise the amount taken on the entry road.
Anything which says different is just car driver methods being transferred to trucks with inevitable results.
Positioning doesnt matter as long as you LOOK. Who cares if you can use less of the road than you actually take. If you look then you wont hit anything. Id rather take more of the road than I strictly need as opposed to undercuting it and wiping out a lamppost or a woman with a buggy.
It is all about observation since if your looking,you’ll be able to stop before hitting anything,irrespective of your road position. I couldnt give a monkeys toss WHAT the training method is,or what you percieve to be “correct”. If im the one on the drivers seat,ill do it any way I like and I wont have some armchair bandit,know-it-all expert tell me how to do it. The real world doesnt work with a one size fits all.
Whether you like to admit it or not,observation was the problem here. Look - See bike - Stop = no motorbike getting run over
Colin_scottish:
Carryfast:
Colin_scottish:
No its just carryfast trying to be a hgv driving expert again but cant no dcpc.So comes on here a gibbers pish.No it’s not ‘just’ me saying it.I’ll list you as another one of the ‘drivers’ who’d turn left there using the same positioning as the muppet in the video.
Why thank you NOT.I am aware on how to drive my artic round a corner its called awareness.Just to make you aware since you know everything i have done my advanded driver training in cars buses and hgv both class.That training was done when in the army and also done my blue light police responce training in northern ireland that was on e.o.d trucks.The joys of carryfast join next time so he can gibber some more pish.
With all that expertise then you’ll obviously have no problem in explaining exactly why the tipper in the above video ran out of road during a left turn and had to make a shunt.Which is more or less the same reason as to why the truck managed to run over a motorcycle on the correct side of the road with it’s nearside front wheel during a left turn in this case.
Meanwhile same question.Would you have made the respective left turns using the same positioning on the approach ?.
Evil8Beezle:
Huh, I was wrong!
I know,I actually surprised myself!
I only intended to put a couple of sentences and nip it in the bud since he’ll let it drag on for 12 pages if you let him but before I knew it id written an essay!
The-Snowman:
Carryfast:
When we’ve got millions of left turns being made in a way which could, foreseeably.Result in a vehicle running over a motorcycle that’s on the correct side of the road with the ‘nearside’ front wheel.While putting the offside front corner over the offside pavement thereby also foreseeably putting pedestrians at risk.On the road being entered,during a left turn on the basis of minimising the amount of space left to the nearside on the approach road,in order to maximise the amount of space left on the nearside on the entry road.We have got a major problem.IE positioning is just as important as observation and in this case yes we know that turning left means putting the vehicle well over to the offside.The difference being that it is always better to maximise the amount that is taken on the approach road in order to minimise the amount taken on the entry road.
Anything which says different is just car driver methods being transferred to trucks with inevitable results.
Positioning doesnt matter as long as you LOOK. Who cares if you can use less of the road than you actually take. If you look then you wont hit anything. Id rather take more of the road than I strictly need as opposed to undercuting it and wiping out a lamppost or a woman with a buggy.
It is all about observation since if your looking,you’ll be able to stop before hitting anything,irrespective of your road position. I couldnt give a monkeys toss WHAT the training method is,or what you percieve to be “correct”. If im the one on the drivers seat,ill do it any way I like and I wont have some armchair bandit,know-it-all expert tell me how to do it. The real world doesnt work with a one size fits all.
Whether you like to admit it or not,observation was the problem here. Look - See bike - Stop = no motorbike getting run over
The argument isn’t about the need to allow for cut in.
We’re arguing about the relationship between going as far as possible to the offside on the approach road in order to minimise the amount needed to be taken to the offside on the road being entered.
As opposed to vice versa.
That’s assuming you even have the slightest clue as to the relationship between the two.
Carryfast:
Colin_scottish:
Carryfast:
Colin_scottish:
No its just carryfast trying to be a hgv driving expert again but cant no dcpc.So comes on here a gibbers pish.No it’s not ‘just’ me saying it.I’ll list you as another one of the ‘drivers’ who’d turn left there using the same positioning as the muppet in the video.
Why thank you NOT.I am aware on how to drive my artic round a corner its called awareness.Just to make you aware since you know everything i have done my advanded driver training in cars buses and hgv both class.That training was done when in the army and also done my blue light police responce training in northern ireland that was on e.o.d trucks.The joys of carryfast join next time so he can gibber some more pish.
With all that expertise then you’ll obviously have no problem in explaining exactly why the tipper in the above video ran out of road during a left turn and had to make a shunt.Which is more or less the same reason as to why the truck managed to run over a motorcycle on the correct side of the road with it’s nearside front wheel during a left turn in this case.
Meanwhile same question.Would you have made the respective left turns using the same positioning on the approach ?.
No i would have made full use of the road being careful not to try and inconvence the other traffic made a slow approch to the junction use the view were i can see as far as i can up the road.Once i think it safe then proceed but the bike will come in to view way before he did.The tipper truck should have again went far to the right while still using the left indicator then went round with no shunt.But as we all know a tipper truck will sometimes try and push you on and not make a tight turn to easy.
Colin_scottish:
Carryfast:
With all that expertise then you’ll obviously have no problem in explaining exactly why the tipper in the above video ran out of road during a left turn and had to make a shunt.Which is more or less the same reason as to why the truck managed to run over a motorcycle on the correct side of the road with it’s nearside front wheel during a left turn in this case.Meanwhile same question.Would you have made the respective left turns using the same positioning on the approach ?.
No i would have made full use of the road being careful not to try and inconvence the other traffic made a slow approch to the junction use the view were i can see as far as i can up the road.Once i think it safe then proceed but the bike will come in to view way before he did.The tipper truck should have again went far to the right while still using the left indicator then went round with no shunt.But as we all know a tipper truck will sometimes try and push you on and not make a tight turn to easy.
So are you saying that in both cases the drivers didn’t go far enough to the offside on the respective approach roads thereby going too far to the offside on the road being enetered ?.
Carryfast:
Colin_scottish:
Carryfast:
With all that expertise then you’ll obviously have no problem in explaining exactly why the tipper in the above video ran out of road during a left turn and had to make a shunt.Which is more or less the same reason as to why the truck managed to run over a motorcycle on the correct side of the road with it’s nearside front wheel during a left turn in this case.Meanwhile same question.Would you have made the respective left turns using the same positioning on the approach ?.
No i would have made full use of the road being careful not to try and inconvence the other traffic made a slow approch to the junction use the view were i can see as far as i can up the road.Once i think it safe then proceed but the bike will come in to view way before he did.The tipper truck should have again went far to the right while still using the left indicator then went round with no shunt.But as we all know a tipper truck will sometimes try and push you on and not make a tight turn to easy.
So are you saying that in both cases the drivers didn’t go far enough to the offside on the respective approach roads thereby going too far to the offside on the road being enetered ?.
Yes judgement of error hgv drivers at fault case closed.Anyway carryfast you cant make that mistake cause you dont have a DCPC do you.The one man who can make the call on the turning in the person in the drivers seat.
Carryfast:
The argument isn’t about the need to allow for cut in.We’re arguing about the relationship between going as far as possible to the offside on the approach road in order to minimise the amount needed to be taken to the offside on the road being entered.
As opposed to vice versa.
That’s assuming you even have the slightest clue as to the relationship between the two.
Oh goody,you’ve went to “ive backed myself into a corner and will now be condesending to try and cover it” mode
Im perfectly aware thanks. But your so far up your own arse with your need to be right all the time you cant even see what im trying to tell you.
WHO GIVES A ■■■■ HOW MUCH ROAD YOU TAKE WHEN TURNING? thats for me to decide when I see the road and weigh it up against oncoming traffic,width of entry road,street furniture etc. Its not up to you from the safety of your living room to tell me what road position to take. Ill make that call thank you very much
If your looking,you’ll see whats there before you hit it. Be it 10% of the road or 99% of the road,if you LOOOOOOK you will SEEEEEEEEEE. regardless of what your road position is
Do you understand?
The-Snowman:
Carryfast:
The-Snowman:
I love this site. A clip of one driver making an error by not looking and after 4 pages suddenly its the whole training industry to blame!Let me guess you’re another of those who really thinks that was all about observation.As opposed to position on the approach to the turn putting the wagon totally on the wrong side and then some of the road being entered.
Of course its all about observation. What else can it be about? He was turning left into a tight road meaning he had to take up the opposite side of the road. Nowt wrong with that (whether he HAD to or not is neither here nor there) But when you need to do that,you need to LOOK (and this is the observation part) and see if there is any oncoming traffic. And if there is then you wait to see if they let you keep turning or if you need to wait on them leaving the road.
Best case scenario,he was so busy making sure he didnt ride the pavement and forgot to check where the bike was. Worst case scenario,he didnt even see it or look into the road before he turned.
And I cant even be bothered to try and decipher what the hell your trying to say in your last sentence since its pointless. The position on approach is moot since before you turn you are supposed to look (theres that observation thing again) before turning. This enables you (try to stay with me here) to see anything in the road which may hinder your progress (things like,say, a guy on a motorbike) and since you’ve looked,you’ll see them no bother and not run them over.
To try and turn this into a debate about the whole training methoeds being at fault is the most ridiculous thing ive ever heard. How many tight left turns are made by large vehicles on a daily basis? Hundreds? Thousands? Millions? If it was the way drivers are trained thats the problem dont you think it would have been addressed as a major problem before now?
Im all for sticking up for fellow drivers when Joe public wants someone strung up when they dont understand the things we need to do to drive HGVs but in this instance,I cant see how it can be the fault of anyone or anything other than the lorry driver. And for what its worth,I dont believe this guy is an actual danger or needed arrested. I think he just had a momentery brain ■■■■ and either misjudged the distance for the bike or forgot to re check where he was when making sure he didnt run over the woman with the pram
Thank you Snowman it is nice to find a sane person who sees the reality of the situation and not twists things around to blame everything else but the driver.
Poor old Carryfast gets his knickers in a twist about training companies. I reckon when he was trained his Instructor probably committed suicide shortly after.
Carryfast:
albion1971:
alder:
The-Snowman:
I love this site. A clip of one driver making an error by not looking and after 4 pages suddenly its the whole training industry to blame!Yes and those of us with experience know that the lorry driver could not see the motorbike as his nearside mirror blocked it from view. The lorry driver would have first known when he hit it. Nice to see TNUK CSI in action though
And the professionals amongst us would have kept our speed down and moved our head about to avoid the mirror blind spot… Dear oh dear where do all these clowns come from.
Clowns don’t get much funnier than those who think that it’s ok to turn left with a truck from the same position as they’d be in to go straight on,at any speed.
I was not going to bother anymore with this thread but one last question for you. Please show me where I said you should take the same position to turn left as to go straight ahead■■? SHOW ME without going off on a tangent if that is possible.
albion1971:
Yes and those of us with experience know that the lorry driver could not see the motorbike as his nearside mirror blocked it from view. The lorry driver would have first known when he hit it. Nice to see TNUK CSI in action though :lolI was not going to bother anymore with this thread but one last question for you. Please show me where I said you should take the same position to turn left as to go straight ahead■■? SHOW ME without going off on a tangent if that is possible.
What you definitely have said is that cut in should be allowed for by maximising the amount of room taken on the entry road.What you’ve then so far refused to say is wether you’d make the left turn in this case using the same positioning as the driver in question.Which is also where the coach is in the google maps photo.Or wether you would do as I said in going as far to the offside as possible on the approach. IE at least up to the line marking which denotes the opposing lane direction ?,
Assuming you have no issues with the truck’s position during it’s ‘approach’ to the turn in this case that would obviously be the same the position as going straight on without turning left.Or to put it another way a car driver’s approach to driving a truck. 