Ever tried a load like this? Stanton and Stavely concrete department about 1989 after I finished on petrol tankers.
albion1971:
Wayne I have nothing against you or anyone else on this forum but I have just come across so many experienced drivers that although they are very confident in what they do they have picked up a lot of bad driving habits over the years.
In the case of at least over reliance on brakes and now left turn methods it seems more like an unarguable case of the training regime having made a clear and deliberate retrograde change in ‘how it’s done’.
In the case of the former on the bs basis that modern brakes are invincible.
While in the case of the latter it’s supposedly better to put the wagon into inevitable conflict with trafic on the road being entered by going tight on the approach road and wide on the entry road.In a bs attempt to cure the issue of nutters undertaking nearside turning trucks the ‘cure’ in this case being at least as bad as,if not worse than,the ‘problem’. 
As for keeping it ‘inside the line’ on the approach in this case.‘Which’ line are you referring to bearing in mind the obvious road layout alterations from the original single divider.Let alone in the case of a road with less overall width.Bearing in mind that the front offside corner of the wagon was actually over the pavement on the entry road in addition to running over oncoming traffic with the front nearside in this case.
waynedl:
I’d say most bad lorry drivers come from bad instruction, followed closely by bad on-going training, again closely followed by bad company management / pressure / planning, and lastly from bad attitude.The video above proves, without a shadow of a doubt, that the way the ‘trainer / instructor’ above, that you agreed with, is training in a dangerous manner in my opinion.
^ This.Although the video actually proves it as a matter of fact not opinion. 
Carryfast I am not going to argue with you either because it is impossible but nobody from any training company has ever said modern brakes were invincible. These words have come from yourself I would presume.
Regarding turning left it has always been taught the same way. It was when I did my training in the 70’s and it was the same when I did my training with RTITB and also when I went through DSA. training and it is the way I have always used in normal circumstances. Just as a matter of interest can you remember how you were told to turn left? Please try to explain in plain English.
albion1971:
Carryfast
Regarding turning left it has always been taught the same way. It was when I did my training in the 70’s and it was the same when I did my training with RTITB and also when I went through DSA. training and it is the way I have always used in normal circumstances. Just as a matter of interest can you remember how you were told to turn left? Please try to explain in plain English.
I was taught to make a nearside turn with a truck on the basis of maximise the amount of room left on the nearside by keeping as far to the offside as possible on the approach road.In order to minimise the amount of room taken to the offside on the entry road.That was in agreement with everyone from all the old school drivers I worked with and my ex tank transporter driver dad to my class 2 and class 1 instructors.
It seems obvious from the US training video that I posted that the training regime has tried to make a relatively recent change in that regard.In a bs unwarranted attempt to deal with the issue of traffic undertaking turning trucks in that situation.With obvious results in this case.
So I’ll ask the question again exactly where would ‘you’ have positioned the vehicle in question in this case on the approach to the turn relative to the road layout lines.Bearing in mind the obvious position of the vehicle in this case both on the approach and collision point and the equally inevitable results.
Carryfast:
albion1971:
Carryfast
Regarding turning left it has always been taught the same way. It was when I did my training in the 70’s and it was the same when I did my training with RTITB and also when I went through DSA. training and it is the way I have always used in normal circumstances. Just as a matter of interest can you remember how you were told to turn left? Please try to explain in plain English.I was taught to make a nearside turn with a truck on the basis of maximise the amount of room left on the nearside by keeping as far to the offside as possible on the approach road.In order to minimise the amount of room taken to the offside on the entry road.That was in agreement with everyone from all the old school drivers I worked with and my ex tank transporter driver dad to my class 2 and class 1 instructors.
It seems obvious from the US training video that I posted that the training regime has tried to make a relatively recent change in that regard.In a bs unwarranted attempt to deal with the issue of traffic undertaking turning trucks in that situation.With obvious results in this case.
So I’ll ask the question again exactly where would ‘you’ have positioned the vehicle in question in this case on the approach to the turn relative to the road layout lines.Bearing in mind the obvious position of the vehicle in this case both on the approach and collision point and the equally inevitable results.
From what I can make out we are talking about the same method although when you say maximise the amount on the left which is correct (in normal circumstances depending on size of vehicle and width of road) on approach it does not mean crossing the centre line of the road unless it is absolutely necessary which in most cases it is not.
The unit and trailer should take up position early and in a straight line with a left signal and should not start to make the turn until observation is made into the road it is turning. Once the road they are turning is clear of traffic presuming the vehicle is large enough to need to cross on to the wrong side of the road then they may proceed.It should not suddenly swing out to the right at the last minute like a lot seem to do. Correct observation is lost when this happens and confusion is caused to other drivers.
Any large vehicle should always use the wrong side of the road they are turning into rather than the one they are on.
Only in exceptional circumstances should a large vehicle cross the centre line of the road they are approaching on.
eg in a tank transporter etc.
Unfortunately I see many drivers using far too much road when it is not necessary although a lot depends on whether they know the turn or not.
I am not interested in what they do in the US. Maybe they have changed things over there but they certainly have not here.
The vehicle in the video was not large enough to need to cross the centre line on approach. The driver failed to observe properly into the road he was turning and also seemed too fast and almost out of control.
albion1971:
Carryfast:
I was taught to make a nearside turn with a truck on the basis of maximise the amount of room left on the nearside by keeping as far to the offside as possible on the approach road.In order to minimise the amount of room taken to the offside on the entry road.That was in agreement with everyone from all the old school drivers I worked with and my ex tank transporter driver dad to my class 2 and class 1 instructors.It seems obvious from the US training video that I posted that the training regime has tried to make a relatively recent change in that regard.In a bs unwarranted attempt to deal with the issue of traffic undertaking turning trucks in that situation.With obvious results in this case.
So I’ll ask the question again exactly where would ‘you’ have positioned the vehicle in question in this case on the approach to the turn relative to the road layout lines.Bearing in mind the obvious position of the vehicle in this case both on the approach and collision point and the equally inevitable results.
From what I can make out we are talking about the same method although when you say maximise the amount on the left which is correct (in normal circumstances depending on size of vehicle and width of road) on approach it does not mean crossing the centre line of the road unless it is absolutely necessary which in most cases it is not.
The unit and trailer should take up position early and in a straight line with a left signal and should not start to make the turn until observation is made into the road it is turning. Once the road they are turning is clear of traffic presuming the vehicle is large enough to need to cross on to the wrong side of the road then they may proceed.It should not suddenly swing out to the right at the last minute like a lot seem to do. Correct observation is lost when this happens and confusion is caused to other drivers.
Any large vehicle should always use the wrong side of the road they are turning into rather than the one they are on.
Only in exceptional circumstances should a large vehicle cross the centre line of the road they are approaching on.
eg in a tank transporter etc.
Unfortunately I see many drivers using far too much road when it is not necessary although a lot depends on whether they know the turn or not.
I am not interested in what they do in the US. Maybe they have changed things over there but they certainly have not here.The vehicle in the video was not large enough to need to cross the centre line on approach. The driver failed to observe properly into the road he was turning and also seemed too fast and almost out of control.
As I read it you’ve contradicted yourself.
You seem to be agreeing with me by saying on one hand take up a position as far as possible to the offside,either to the line,or possibly even over it ‘if’ required, ‘on the approach’ to maximise the amount of room to the nearside well before starting the turn.
Then you’re saying in this case that there wasn’t a problem with that part of the driver’s positioning.While saying that the vehicle wasn’t ‘large enough’ to need to take up a position across ‘the centre line’ on the approach.Bearing in mind that the ‘line’ in question was the one closest to the opposing traffic lane marking not the one which the coach is within which marks the lane in the truck’s approach direction and which the truck obviously stayed within and never moved to the offside at all.IE it started it’s turn from the same position as where it would have been to go straight ahead as in the case of where the coach is.
While then you’re saying that the resulting crossover collision,in large part caused by the truck’s much too wide position on entry,caused by the much too tight position on the approach,wasn’t the issue.It was supposedly,in your view,all about observation in making sure that nothing was in the way.Having put the front offside of the vehicle over the offside pavement and the whole vehicle on the wrong side of the road on the entry road.While the position in question itself also obviously restricting the amount of vision into the entry road. 
Based on the contradictory bs idea that the correct method is to use ‘the wrong side of the road which you are turning into’.
As opposed to the the correct idea of it being all about doing the exact opposite as I and others have correctly described.
So I’ll ask you and the other ‘trainer’ contributor again.Would you have started that turn from the position of the coach in the google maps photo.Or from the position of either on,or even just over,the line closest to the van and marking out the lane in the opposing direction ?.
albion1971:
I got knocked off my bike last year, a car driver in the LEFT lane on approach to a roundabout with 2 lanes on and 2 lanes off on primary route (5 exits total, 3rd being primary route) decides he wants exit 4, from the left lane, with no indication, and you know what the little [zb] said “we’re taught not to indicate until we’re coming off a roundabout”… How the hell is someone on your right supposed to know if you’re indicating left or not?? Keep teaching the way you’re told, it doesn’t make it right for the real worldA perfect example of a car driver who passed a basic test probably years ago and has forgotten what they have been told.
Indication is taught the same all over but as I am sure you know a lot of drivers do not bother or use a wrong signal or none at all. Nothing to do with the training but all to do with drivers inability to store information properly. I will say a lot of the problem stems from when they stopped the learning of the highway code and introduced the theory test. People now learn what they have to to pass and then forget most of it. Any good driver would keep up to date with the highway code but most do not bother so if you think every car and lorry driver that does not signal properly has been badly trained you really need to get a grip on reality.
Nope, my mates sister in law is an instructor, and when I discussed this with her, she said that they are now taught not to indicate right on roundabouts, only to indicate left before their exit.
Doesn’t help the fact the little ■■■■ was in the wrong lane mind… And he was 19yrs old.
He also said the same thing when I asked him (rather heatedly of course) why he decided to carry on round the roundabout from the left lane with no right indicator, he said “I wasn’t indicating left either”…
Now, I’ve only got those 2 words on that being the training, but I’d take the word of my mates sister in law over yours any day.
albion1971:
As I said I cannot be bothered arguing with you but your opinion is not correct. I have not read all the posts but no instructor would say keep to the left.
They might say keep to the left of the centre line which in most cases is correct. I have trained many drivers whom I am still in touch with and the majority are good drivers however there are a few that should not be on the road. Nothing to do with the training.It seems to me a lot of lorry drivers on this forum hate everything but themselves.
Cyclists.Cars.Coach drivers.van drivers and any sort of trainers. As I have said plenty times all the bad driving comes from bad attitudes which are in abundance throughout this forum and on the road.
albion1971:
paulweller84:
Newmercman: personally I disagree with that method. If the driver were to move out the right approaching his left hand turn to allow him to turn in without crossing the centre line of the road he is entering, what would happen if, on approach a vehicle came from the road on the left wanting to turn right? I’ve had trainees attempt this many times and often it results in a ‘check mate’ scenario where you want to turn left, the other vehicle wants to turn right and one of you has to reverse. You’re better staying in your lane on approach, slowing right down to see into the road before turning, then taking a slow wide turn with full observation into the road.+1 Nice to see someone that actually knows the correct method. Some on here like to blame everything else.
paulweller84:
See right hand diagram. Taken from Official training material for DVSA Registered LGV instructors.
paulweller84’s image
waynedl:
albion1971:
paulweller84:
Newmercman: personally I disagree with that method. If the driver were to move out the right approaching his left hand turn to allow him to turn in without crossing the centre line of the road he is entering, what would happen if, on approach a vehicle came from the road on the left wanting to turn right? I’ve had trainees attempt this many times and often it results in a ‘check mate’ scenario where you want to turn left, the other vehicle wants to turn right and one of you has to reverse. You’re better staying in your lane on approach, slowing right down to see into the road before turning, then taking a slow wide turn with full observation into the road.+1 Nice to see someone that actually knows the correct method. Some on here like to blame everything else.
paulweller84:
1See right hand diagram. Taken from Official training material for DVSA Registered LGV instructors.
paulweller84’s image
That says it all.Not for the first time we’ve got a training regime that’s unfit for purpose.
Carryfast I am not contradicting myself and again you have misunderstood and then you reply with an almost incomprehensible reply. Just so you know I never even looked at any of your googled diagrams.
As I said I cannot be bothered arguing with you or anyone else as it is a complete waste of time. I know the correct way to drive a truck and the way I see a lot of truck drivers driving is atrocious and dangerous in a lot of situations. The truck driver in the clip was completely in the wrong as are many we see on our roads and it is all down to bad attitudes and people not listening. It has been proved time and time again but people like yourself will not listen because you think you know better. Do you think truck drivers are taught to tailgate or speed or be aggressive? NO they are not but they do it everyday and that is why you and others are completely wrong with your theories. Goodnight.
albion1971:
Carryfast I am not contradicting myself and again you have misunderstood and then you reply with an almost incomprehensible reply. Just so you know I never even looked at any of your googled diagrams.
As I said I cannot be bothered arguing with you or anyone else as it is a complete waste of time. I know the correct way to drive a truck and the way I see a lot of truck drivers driving is atrocious and dangerous in a lot of situations. The truck driver in the clip was completely in the wrong as are many we see on our roads and it is all down to bad attitudes and people not listening. It has been proved time and time again but people like yourself will not listen because you think you know better. Do you think truck drivers are taught to tailgate or speed or be aggressive? NO they are not but they do it everyday and that is why you and others are completely wrong with your theories. Goodnight.
No surprise that you’re still dodging the question.
We’ve got a video which unarguably shows the results of taking the wrong position on the approach to a left hand turn.In line with the training regime thinking.
Resulting in a truck putting it’s front ‘offside’ over the ‘offside’ pavement and running over a motorcycle travelling in the opposite direction on the correct side of the road,with it’s ‘nearside’ front wheel,on the road which it turned into. All on the basis of it’s supposedly better to turn left from a straight ahead position thereby putting the wagon completely on the wrong side of the road and then some on the road it’s turning into.
Then the training regime as usual blames everyone else for it’s own failings.
newmercman:
It is illegal to cross a line and force oncoming traffic to stop in the road you are turning into in the US and Canada, you can cut across with a trailer on a left turn, but when turning right, you swing wide before making the turn as not to obstruct any traffic in the road you are entering. Obviously a right turn here is the same as a left turn there in relation to the vehicle’s position.Even with a set of turnpike doubles (2×53’ trailers) you are not allowed to cross the center line of the road you’re turning into on a right turn. Because of this we are restricted to 4 lane roads and have permitted routes in cities.
Irrespective of that, as it means SFA in Britain, it’s pure common sense to use all the road before you turn, as you approach the turning you can move over to the right in advance, while still leaving enough trailer near the kerb to prevent somebody coming up the inside as you turn. Once your intentions are clear, then you swing out a little wider just before you start to turn, steering past the turning and coming back to your side of the road you are entering.
I used this method for 20yrs in big cities all over the UK and Europe without incident, sure I had few try to nip up the inside, but because of my positioning, basically being as straight as possible until the last minute, I was able to see them long before it was going to cause a crash, the same applied to vehicles trying to pass on the offside potentially getting caught by tail swing, I could see them and prevent them from passing by correct positioning prior to turning.
You can quote all the books and regulations that you want, the method I, and many other professional drivers use is the safe way to do it and no amount of arguing on here will persuade me otherwise, 29yrs without hitting anything while turning left in Britain and right elsewhere in the world is absolute proof that my method works, whereas the video at the top of this thread proves that the other way is an accident waiting to happen.
Absolutely this ! I’ve driven artics in England and Australia, buses as well over here and only once did I have have some daft cow in a car get up my nearside. Turning left in to Edgeware Rd fron Knutsford Place ? I’d come down through Abbey Rd, Lisson Grove etc. I’d left the trailer wheels close to the n/s kerb but I got her with the front n/s wheel of the trailer and a witness came over and said she’d gone up the footpath to get past ffs.
Like newmercman, I’ve made a few left turns and apart from anyone that really wants to commit suicide, it’s the only safe way to do it. Sadly, it needs a bit of common sense from everyone concerned to get from a to b without hitting something or getting hit.
Carryfast:
albion1971:
Carryfast I am not contradicting myself and again you have misunderstood and then you reply with an almost incomprehensible reply. Just so you know I never even looked at any of your googled diagrams.
As I said I cannot be bothered arguing with you or anyone else as it is a complete waste of time. I know the correct way to drive a truck and the way I see a lot of truck drivers driving is atrocious and dangerous in a lot of situations. The truck driver in the clip was completely in the wrong as are many we see on our roads and it is all down to bad attitudes and people not listening. It has been proved time and time again but people like yourself will not listen because you think you know better. Do you think truck drivers are taught to tailgate or speed or be aggressive? NO they are not but they do it everyday and that is why you and others are completely wrong with your theories. Goodnight.No surprise that you’re still dodging the question.
We’ve got a video which unarguably shows the results of taking the wrong position on the approach to a left hand turn.In line with the training regime thinking.
Resulting in a truck putting it’s front ‘offside’ over the ‘offside’ pavement and running over a motorcycle travelling in the opposite direction on the correct side of the road,with it’s ‘nearside’ front wheel,on the road which it turned into.
Then the training regime as usual blames everyone else for it’s own failings.
Now let me get this straight. I am dodging your question. Which question would that be. It is very difficult to decipher your ramblings most of the time and nine times out of ten I cannot be bothered reading them at all.
So if I am dodging your question I could say (as usual) you have not answered any of mine which you haven’t.
It’s amazing how a clip of a lorry getting it all wrong all revolves round the driver being badly trained in your world. It could not possibly be a bad driver. No of course not. Not possible.
There are plenty drivers who can negotiate corners safely and properly who have been trained the same way as everyone else so that blows your theory out the window.
Now as I said I cannot be bothered arguing with you because most of the time you do not talk sense and you explanations are mostly incomprehensible so you go on believing what you want about something you obviously know nothing about.
Goodbye.
I love this site. A clip of one driver making an error by not looking and after 4 pages suddenly its the whole training industry to blame! 
Must be a lot of bored people about with too much spare time on their hands.
The-Snowman:
I love this site. A clip of one driver making an error by not looking and after 4 pages suddenly its the whole training industry to blame!
Yes and those of us with experience know that the lorry driver could not see the motorbike as his nearside mirror blocked it from view. The lorry driver would have first known when he hit it. Nice to see TNUK CSI in action though
albion1971:
Carryfast:
No surprise that you’re still dodging the question.We’ve got a video which unarguably shows the results of taking the wrong position on the approach to a left hand turn.In line with the training regime thinking.
Resulting in a truck putting it’s front ‘offside’ over the ‘offside’ pavement and running over a motorcycle travelling in the opposite direction on the correct side of the road,with it’s ‘nearside’ front wheel,on the road which it turned into.
Then the training regime as usual blames everyone else for it’s own failings.
Now let me get this straight. I am dodging your question. Which question would that be. It is very difficult to decipher your ramblings most of the time and nine times out of ten I cannot be bothered reading them at all.
So if I am dodging your question I could say (as usual) you have not answered any of mine which you haven’t.
It’s amazing how a clip of a lorry getting it all wrong all revolves round the driver being badly trained in your world. It could not possibly be a bad driver. No of course not. Not possible.
There are plenty drivers who can negotiate corners safely and properly who have been trained the same way as everyone else so that blows your theory out the window.
Now as I said I cannot be bothered arguing with you because most of the time you do not talk sense and you explanations are mostly incomprehensible so you go on believing what you want about something you obviously know nothing about.
Goodbye.
It is a bad driver but the question is why.We’ve got unarguable proof here that the training regime is actually telling him to make that turn in the way he did it with foreseeable results.As for the question you know which question but just like the other training ‘expert’ you don’t want to answer it because the answer shows up the bs situation we’ve got in a contradictory training regime which is worse than the blind leading the blind.
So I’ll ask you again.Using the google maps photo of the approach to the turn in question,which position would ‘you’ be using on the approach to make that same turn.Would you be where the coach is or well over to the offside at least to the line which marks the opposite direction traffic lane ?.
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=128415&start=60#p2006254
As for any supposed ‘question’ that you want me to answer what question.
The-Snowman:
I love this site. A clip of one driver making an error by not looking and after 4 pages suddenly its the whole training industry to blame!
Let me guess you’re another of those who really thinks that was all about observation.As opposed to position on the approach to the turn putting the wagon totally on the wrong side and then some of the road being entered.
alder:
The-Snowman:
I love this site. A clip of one driver making an error by not looking and after 4 pages suddenly its the whole training industry to blame!Yes and those of us with experience know that the lorry driver could not see the motorbike as his nearside mirror blocked it from view. The lorry driver would have first known when he hit it. Nice to see TNUK CSI in action though
If he’d have looked down the road as he approached the turn he would have seen the bike. Simple forward planning.
alder:
The-Snowman:
I love this site. A clip of one driver making an error by not looking and after 4 pages suddenly its the whole training industry to blame!Yes and those of us with experience know that the lorry driver could not see the motorbike as his nearside mirror blocked it from view. The lorry driver would have first known when he hit it. Nice to see TNUK CSI in action though
And the professionals amongst us would have kept our speed down and moved our head about to avoid the mirror blind spot… Dear oh dear where do all these clowns come from.