Lorry driver didn’t reverse, that’s been edited for dramatic effect.
You’re welcome to your opinions, but I’ve done both ways and in my experience, the way I’m explaining gives better/safer results.
paulweller84:
I see the point you’re making, and it certain situations that does work, but not as a rule. Often, as would be likely in the case of this video, you would need to encroach into oncoming traffic in the main road to make the turn and would not be guaranteed to make the turn without crossing the centre line of the road entered, therefore not guaranteed to allow room for an oncoming vehicle from the side road.However (and at no point did I mention hugging the kerb) moving fully to the right of your lane on approach (or even putting the right wheels on the line) causes no interference with oncoming traffic, and prevents the situation where you cannot successfully make the turn without crossing the centre of the road you’re entering.
The only time this doesn’t work obviously is if the road being entered isn’t wide enough, in that case then I would apply your school of thinking.
My method works, all the Instructors I know use it, all the Examiners I know prefer it, my pass rate is in excess of 80%. Perhaps you were taught differently, however, methods change and if that is the case here then I am pleased for it.
PS. Thank you for your comment: “those who can’t do, teach.” I teach because I found driving wasn’t challenging enough and became a bit dull.
No offence intended, but yours might be the right way to pass a test and keep examiners happy, but in the real world you would be foolish to act as you’re suggesting as the default way of doing it. Let’s say I was somewhere I’d never been before, and visibility on the approach to the side road wasn’t great. If I stayed in my lane before the turn I could then find I couldnt make the turn and then I could end up off my planned route and in a pickle and having to trust the sat nav. The best way is to ease off so other road users have time to comprehend your manoeuvre and go right over the other side of the road so you can make the turn. If a car has to reverse, or turn left when they wanted to go right, it’s no big deal compared to a 44t artic having to reroute without any planning.
paulweller84:
You’re welcome to your opinions, but I’ve done both ways and in my experience, the way I’m explaining gives better/safer results.
How’s it safer to potentially put yourself in the position of having to go up a pavement on a corner, or reroute because your road position prior to entry wasn’t wide enough to make a turn?
What if there’s a low bridge 200 yards down the main road you’re exiting? Are you saying you’d take your method, or the safe method?
With your method your are taking a chance. I don’t like to leave things to chance in places like London.
Tris: Finally, a sensible response that doesn’t resort to rude comments.
Totally agree with you, if you’re driving a 44t and are hauling in excess of 18m of truck then sometimes you’ll be forced to take a wide turning position. I’ve done it many times, especially when doing deliveries to building sites in city centres. But, this is more of an exception rather than a rule. I’d always take my explained option first but if in doubt, I.e long vehicle, town centre situation then I may move across the centre line beforehand. This is why it’s crucial to plan well ahead and assess the size of the junction you’re approaching.
In my experience, the way Examiners expect things to be done when it comes to turning is correct and safety orientated. Some of it is crap though, I won’t comment on some of things they’ve said but they do occasionally get a bit too picky.
Remember, the video we’re discussing here. The Selco truck had room to make the turn without mounting the kerb, I commented that the method was correct, but the observation was poor.
paulweller84:
Remember, the video we’re discussing here. The Selco truck had room to make the turn without mounting the kerb, I commented that the method was correct, but the observation was poor.
You’re correct in that. And if it was on a route you use for training youd know the road and you would correctly instruct that’s the way to do it. However put yourself in the position of not knowing the road and it would have been safer to air on the side of caution and get out wide prior to the turn. I use up more road than I need on a daily basis in places I don’t know, and get abuse for doing so, but I’m not going to change my approach. I was taught to command the road and that is the best advice you give any new driver.
Guildford Test Centre for example has about 30 LGV Test routes (15 routes that can be used in either direction.) In a week we cannot teach every route, so we teach a general approach to driving based on proven safe methods. Key thing is planning on approach, and yes it is necessary to sometimes move out slightly if driving a long vehicle to make the turn.
It is NOT however, best to move out unnecessarily across the road to enter ‘square’ as someone mentioned.
“If you’re driving a long vehicle, you might need to move to the middle of the road to avoid the rear wheels cutting in while you’re turning.”
Taken from the Official DVSA guide to driving Goods Vehicles.
“Might need to”
Don’t do it as a rule. Avoid it where possible. Sometimes you will have to.
paulweller84:
Guildford Test Centre for example has about 30 LGV Test routes (15 routes that can be used in either direction.) In a week we cannot teach every route, so we teach a general approach to driving based on proven safe methods. Key thing is planning on approach, and yes it is necessary to sometimes move out slightly if driving a long vehicle to make the turn.It is NOT however, best to move out unnecessarily across the road to enter ‘square’ as someone mentioned.
What bugs me about the test is that if you cause a vehicle to break on a roundabout it’s a serious error and an automatic fail. I bet there’s not a single HGV driver on here that doesn’t cause a car to have to slow down on a roundabout every day they’re on the road. The speed cars whiz round roundabouts versus the speed lorries accelerate means it’s impossible in many instances to avoid slowing a car down.
See my previous comment about “picky examiners!” [emoji57]
It’s not an automatic fail, only if the vehicle that had to brake was clearly visible at the time of entering the roundabout. If you’ve already entered and then a car appears, no fault should be marked.
paulweller84:
It’s not an automatic fail, only if the vehicle that had to brake was clearly visible at the time of entering the roundabout. If you’ve already entered and then a car appears, no fault should be marked.
We had a lad who was failed on a roundabout. It was clear when he entered, then the automatic gears decided they’d faff about as they do, car comes round and has to slow, he fails his test. Where’s the common sense on the part of the examiner there?
Don’t get me started on Auto tests. I thought they were a good idea to start with, then quickly realised that learners in autos is not a good mix.
Slow changing boxes, forgetting to use kickdown, flying into junctions too fast because they’re not having to change down. Not to mention being completely unprepared when they get a job and get given a 4 over 4 to figure out.
In your lads experience, that seems a little harsh, but I always say “I wasn’t there, so I don’t know exactly how it was.” Often trainees will have a differing story to the examiner so I tend to take them with a pinch of salt.
paulweller84:
I see the point you’re making, and it certain situations that does work, but not as a rule. Often, as would be likely in the case of this video, you would need to encroach into oncoming traffic in the main road to make the turn and would not be guaranteed to make the turn without crossing the centre line of the road entered, therefore not guaranteed to allow room for an oncoming vehicle from the side road.However (and at no point did I mention hugging the kerb) moving fully to the right of your lane on approach (or even putting the right wheels on the line) causes no interference with oncoming traffic, and prevents the situation where you cannot successfully make the turn without crossing the centre of the road you’re entering.
The only time this doesn’t work obviously is if the road being entered isn’t wide enough, in that case then I would apply your school of thinking.
My method works, all the Instructors I know use it, all the Examiners I know prefer it, my pass rate is in excess of 80%. Perhaps you were taught differently, however, methods change and if that is the case here then I am pleased for it.
PS. Thank you for your comment: “those who can’t do, teach.” I teach because I found driving wasn’t challenging enough and became a bit dull.
+1 Nice to see someone that actually knows the correct method. Some on here like to blame everything else.
Carryfast as usual blames the training but he has never trained anyone in his life (thank goodness) Some drivers forget what they have been told and others just decide to do it their own way. Now wonder standards are so low. 
Tris:
paulweller84:
It’s not an automatic fail, only if the vehicle that had to brake was clearly visible at the time of entering the roundabout. If you’ve already entered and then a car appears, no fault should be marked.We had a lad who was failed on a roundabout. It was clear when he entered, then the automatic gears decided they’d faff about as they do, car comes round and has to slow, he fails his test. Where’s the common sense on the part of the examiner there?
The Examiners always give the benefit of the doubt. If you had been in the truck with them you would probably have seen why he failed. The candidates version is usually wrong. Seen it many times.
Tris:
paulweller84:
Guildford Test Centre for example has about 30 LGV Test routes (15 routes that can be used in either direction.) In a week we cannot teach every route, so we teach a general approach to driving based on proven safe methods. Key thing is planning on approach, and yes it is necessary to sometimes move out slightly if driving a long vehicle to make the turn.It is NOT however, best to move out unnecessarily across the road to enter ‘square’ as someone mentioned.
What bugs me about the test is that if you cause a vehicle to break on a roundabout it’s a serious error and an automatic fail. I bet there’s not a single HGV driver on here that doesn’t cause a car to have to slow down on a roundabout every day they’re on the road. The speed cars whiz round roundabouts versus the speed lorries accelerate means it’s impossible in many instances to avoid slowing a car down.
Sorry to say you sound a bit like carryfast. I presume you have no experience of driver training or driver testing?
You would be surprised at how much you can get away with on an LGV test and still pass. In my view it should be a lot stricter.
Malky80:
The biker either thought the driver had already or would eventually see him and stop. He was in a state of disbelief and by the time he realised he wasn’t going to stop, the opportunity to move to the other lane or use his horn had gone. A quicker thinking, warier biker would have avoided it, but that doesn’t mean the biker was to blame or that the trucker was anything less than 100% to blame for this collision. Blind spot or not, the Trucker would have seen him had he made the obligatory check before turning onto a street where you have to use the whole width of the road. The biker was lucky and could have been seriously injured or killed in this incident. I suspect the trucker will be getting a visit from plod and charged for dangerous driving, although he might get it lowered to driving without due care and attention.
I think you are talking absolute rubbish. How do you know what the bike rider was thinking? Have you ever ridden a motorcycle? The bike rider stopped having seen the truck coming towards him on his side of the road. What did you want him to do? Push the bike backwards? or what? The bike in question was a Ducati Monster which is no light weight and also has a very poor steering lock. The guy on the bike could do no more than stop.
albion1971:
paulweller84:
I see the point you’re making, and it certain situations that does work, but not as a rule. Often, as would be likely in the case of this video, you would need to encroach into oncoming traffic in the main road to make the turn and would not be guaranteed to make the turn without crossing the centre line of the road entered, therefore not guaranteed to allow room for an oncoming vehicle from the side road.However (and at no point did I mention hugging the kerb) moving fully to the right of your lane on approach (or even putting the right wheels on the line) causes no interference with oncoming traffic, and prevents the situation where you cannot successfully make the turn without crossing the centre of the road you’re entering.
The only time this doesn’t work obviously is if the road being entered isn’t wide enough, in that case then I would apply your school of thinking.
My method works, all the Instructors I know use it, all the Examiners I know prefer it, my pass rate is in excess of 80%. Perhaps you were taught differently, however, methods change and if that is the case here then I am pleased for it.
PS. Thank you for your comment: “those who can’t do, teach.” I teach because I found driving wasn’t challenging enough and became a bit dull.
+1 Nice to see someone that actually knows the correct method. Some on here like to blame everything else.
Carryfast as usual blames the training but he has never trained anyone in his life (thank goodness) Some drivers forget what they have been told and others just decide to do it their own way. Now wonder standards are so low.
+2 I was taught that way. It hasn’t let me down yet. I also agree that if you swing wide on approach optimistically hoping that you will fit in one lane after the turn then you run a high risk of a stale-mate if anything big is coming. Approaching in lane towards the RH side of it, stopping, checking, then turning is the safest way by far, and doesn’t block the junction if there are 3 artics waiting to turn right out of the road you are turning into.
waynedl:
newmercman:
paulweller84:
Newmercman: personally I disagree with that method. If the driver were to move out the right approaching his left hand turn to allow him to turn in without crossing the centre line of the road he is entering, what would happen if, on approach a vehicle came from the road on the left wanting to turn right? I’ve had trainees attempt this many times and often it results in a ‘check mate’ scenario where you want to turn left, the other vehicle wants to turn right and one of you has to reverse. You’re better staying in your lane on approach, slowing right down to see into the road before turning, then taking a slow wide turn with full observation into the road.My verdict, Selco driver 100% at fault for not observing the road being entered sufficiently to avoid losing other roads users in the N/S mirror/A pillar blind spot, plus excessive approach and enter speed.
Love that BBC article by the way. Great advice from the ‘expert.’
This statement is one of the reasons why those that can, do, and those that can’t, teach!
If you’ve ever driven a lorry in an urban environment then you would know that you use as much of the road you are leaving as you can, if there is a vehicle coming up the road you are trying to enter, the wide swing before the turn would mean that the vehicle in that road can continue to the end of the road unhindered as you will be on your side of the road as you have approached the junction correctly.
If you are trying to tell me that the correct approach is to hug the kerb and go into oncoming traffic in the road you are entering then, I’m sorry, but that is complete ■■■■■■■■ and if that is the standard to which new drivers are being taught, then God help us.
+1
I’ve never heard so much [zb] since I heard that RM ‘expert’. You swing wide on approach, observe the road you’re about to turn in to, if a vehicle is coming down and wanting to turn right, you stop BEFORE the road - no reversing required, it’s not bloody rocket science.
By swinging wide - where possible - it IMPROVES your vision of the road you’re entering, with big thick pillars and multiple mirrors on todays lorrys, the nearside front corner is terrible for vision, so take it out of the equation.
Do us a favour, don’t teach anyone else, you’re crap and your instruction will put more crap drivers with no bloody idea on the roads - like they’re not bad enough anyway
Wayne I have come across many drivers like yourself who consider themselves top notch but in reality they are well below standard.
You may be a good driver but in whose opinion?
Just yours probably.
You seem to have a problem with someone who clearly knows what they are talking about which does not make you look very good.
There are plenty of experienced drivers who do not have a clue how to turn correctly. Swinging out on approach is not a good way to go in most situations and some drivers seem to do it st every turn. Bad driving which can cause a lot of confusion.