eagerbeaver:
I’ve just listened to the audio CF, he is definitely not foreign mate. He is going far too fast around that corner for that swing.
Edit you’re right I didn’t bother with the phones just the vid.
What a muppet.
Haha…you DO realise CF, that some on here will rejoice in an admission from your good self of ’ slight error '.!!
“There’s no suggestion that in this case the lorry driver was acting negligently. Indeed, it appears from the footage that, as he turned, he took pains to avoid his rear wheels mounting the pavement where a woman with a buggy was standing.”
I have already written to the BBC and told them they are talking complete [zb]. I suggested they contacted a DSA certified LGV instructor before stating that the driver was not at fault. I also mentioned that a Royal Mail Safety Logistics Officer was probably not the best source of information about safe truck driving!
Scary stuff.
In so far as the offending driver didn’t plan, position and manoeuvre safely.
That he then tried to back off from the collision without first checking anyone was trapped; and that he tried to back into a clearly very busy main road.
That he seemed so relaxed about nearly creaming someone.
And that people seem to think that that motorcyclist was at fault, or should have been able to respond quicker to avoid the collision.
I don’t know about scary stuff, but unbelievably moronic stuff at least. It is scary that people like him are let out with lorries, but stupid in the extreme that he’d put it into a corner the way he did and then, as said before, back straight out in to a main road before having another go at demolishing the bike. And as far as the plonker on the BBC from RM said: how come he thinks an artic would have got around that corner any better than that particular rigid if he had anything but a tiny trailer. Even more mirrors were mentioned in that story. 
There’s always going to be accidents and ■■■■ ups but I have to admit that I can’t remember seeing anything as ■■■■■■■ stupid as that in 51 years of driving (legally)… 
That Selco driver would have hit a bus let alone a motorbike what is he partially sighted.
Most decent drivers can tell if they have clipped a kerb let alone driven straight over a motorbike.
He should have been able to see what he had hit in the mirror above the windscreen.
The reversing onto the main road was diabolical.
As has been said the driver did not stop to assess the well-being of the motorcyclist he was flapping about like a headless chicken,all the hallmarks of a driver under pressure either lost or behind schedule
Whilst I do sympathise with a fellow driver and I get the fact that anyone can make a mistake but the amount of ■■■■ ups one after the other in this instance was only ever going to end badly.
Totally down to the lorry driver, he was completely wrong in his positioning prior to making the turn. You are supposed to use the road you’re coming out of to swing wide, not swing wide into the road you’re turning into.
He typified the arrogance of a London/South East driver. No regard for anything other than themselves. If you had to use the other side of the road you’d have conducted the manoeuvre slowly. Blind spots don’t even come into this - he had clear vision of the length of the road he was about to turn into.
Newmercman: personally I disagree with that method. If the driver were to move out the right approaching his left hand turn to allow him to turn in without crossing the centre line of the road he is entering, what would happen if, on approach a vehicle came from the road on the left wanting to turn right? I’ve had trainees attempt this many times and often it results in a ‘check mate’ scenario where you want to turn left, the other vehicle wants to turn right and one of you has to reverse. You’re better staying in your lane on approach, slowing right down to see into the road before turning, then taking a slow wide turn with full observation into the road.
My verdict, Selco driver 100% at fault for not observing the road being entered sufficiently to avoid losing other roads users in the N/S mirror/A pillar blind spot, plus excessive approach and enter speed.
Love that BBC article by the way. Great advice from the ‘expert.’
paulweller84:
Newmercman: personally I disagree with that method. If the driver were to move out the right approaching his left hand turn to allow him to turn in without crossing the centre line of the road he is entering, what would happen if, on approach a vehicle came from the road on the left wanting to turn right? I’ve had trainees attempt this many times and often it results in a ‘check mate’ scenario where you want to turn left, the other vehicle wants to turn right and one of you has to reverse. You’re better staying in your lane on approach, slowing right down to see into the road before turning, then taking a slow wide turn with full observation into the road.My verdict, Selco driver 100% at fault for not observing the road being entered sufficiently to avoid losing other roads users in the N/S mirror/A pillar blind spot, plus excessive approach and enter speed.
Love that BBC article by the way. Great advice from the ‘expert.’
This statement is one of the reasons why those that can, do, and those that can’t, teach!
If you’ve ever driven a lorry in an urban environment then you would know that you use as much of the road you are leaving as you can, if there is a vehicle coming up the road you are trying to enter, the wide swing before the turn would mean that the vehicle in that road can continue to the end of the road unhindered as you will be on your side of the road as you have approached the junction correctly.
If you are trying to tell me that the correct approach is to hug the kerb and go into oncoming traffic in the road you are entering then, I’m sorry, but that is complete ■■■■■■■■ and if that is the standard to which new drivers are being taught, then God help us.
I see the point you’re making, and it certain situations that does work, but not as a rule. Often, as would be likely in the case of this video, you would need to encroach into oncoming traffic in the main road to make the turn and would not be guaranteed to make the turn without crossing the centre line of the road entered, therefore not guaranteed to allow room for an oncoming vehicle from the side road.
However (and at no point did I mention hugging the kerb) moving fully to the right of your lane on approach (or even putting the right wheels on the line) causes no interference with oncoming traffic, and prevents the situation where you cannot successfully make the turn without crossing the centre of the road you’re entering.
The only time this doesn’t work obviously is if the road being entered isn’t wide enough, in that case then I would apply your school of thinking.
My method works, all the Instructors I know use it, all the Examiners I know prefer it, my pass rate is in excess of 80%. Perhaps you were taught differently, however, methods change and if that is the case here then I am pleased for it.
PS. Thank you for your comment: “those who can’t do, teach.” I teach because I found driving wasn’t challenging enough and became a bit dull.
newmercman:
paulweller84:
Newmercman: personally I disagree with that method. If the driver were to move out the right approaching his left hand turn to allow him to turn in without crossing the centre line of the road he is entering, what would happen if, on approach a vehicle came from the road on the left wanting to turn right? I’ve had trainees attempt this many times and often it results in a ‘check mate’ scenario where you want to turn left, the other vehicle wants to turn right and one of you has to reverse. You’re better staying in your lane on approach, slowing right down to see into the road before turning, then taking a slow wide turn with full observation into the road.My verdict, Selco driver 100% at fault for not observing the road being entered sufficiently to avoid losing other roads users in the N/S mirror/A pillar blind spot, plus excessive approach and enter speed.
Love that BBC article by the way. Great advice from the ‘expert.’
This statement is one of the reasons why those that can, do, and those that can’t, teach!
If you’ve ever driven a lorry in an urban environment then you would know that you use as much of the road you are leaving as you can, if there is a vehicle coming up the road you are trying to enter, the wide swing before the turn would mean that the vehicle in that road can continue to the end of the road unhindered as you will be on your side of the road as you have approached the junction correctly.
If you are trying to tell me that the correct approach is to hug the kerb and go into oncoming traffic in the road you are entering then, I’m sorry, but that is complete ■■■■■■■■ and if that is the standard to which new drivers are being taught, then God help us.
In the case of the video the road he was exiting was very busy, and therefore in my judgement it was a reasonable manoeuvre to go wide into the less busy road he was entering. He could have been a bit wider prior to turning I grant you that and I would always prefer to do as you say and and go wide and enter square. That said had I been in that situation in an artic I’d have stopped the traffic on the main road and if anyone needed to reverse they’d have had to get on with it. As an HGV driver you’ve got to command the road or you’re ■■■■■■■
Pauweller; Don’t want to sound offensive mate, but you need a vaccination quick. The ’ talking of ■■■■■■■■ ’ disease has you in its grip.
On approach to a virtually blind left hand turn, you have various options. The most intelligent would be to plan well ahead and ’ time ’ if necessary, your arrival at the turn so that there is a gap in the oncoming traffic. Then you take some of the oncoming lane to shallow out your turn, thus giving you maximum vision(combined with an appropriate speed). Obviously if the oncoming lane is clear, you can just wander out into it a little after slowing, signalling and the obligatory near side mirror checks.
If in this case, the driver has not planned far enough ahead, or lets say, turned in too early, he should be crawling around the corner.
My personal opinion based on viewing the footage a number of times, is that he just doesn’t really care. He strikes me as the type of driver who expects every other road user to adapt to HIS poor driving. I wouldn’t say he is an accident waiting to happen, I would say he is a careless/dangerous driver.
paulweller84:
I see the point you’re making, and it certain situations that does work, but not as a rule. Often, as would be likely in the case of this video, you would need to encroach into oncoming traffic in the main road to make the turn and would not be guaranteed to make the turn without crossing the centre line of the road entered, therefore not guaranteed to allow room for an oncoming vehicle from the side road.However (and at no point did I mention hugging the kerb) moving fully to the right of your lane on approach (or even putting the right wheels on the line) causes no interference with oncoming traffic, and prevents the situation where you cannot successfully make the turn without crossing the centre of the road you’re entering.
The only time this doesn’t work obviously is if the road being entered isn’t wide enough, in that case then I would apply your school of thinking.
My method works, all the Instructors I know use it, all the Examiners I know prefer it, my pass rate is in excess of 80%. Perhaps you were taught differently, however, methods change and if that is the case here then I am pleased for it.
PS. Thank you for your comment: “those who can’t do, teach.” I teach because I found driving wasn’t challenging enough and became a bit dull.
I’m glad you enjoyed it, I knew a fan of the Modfather wouldn’t take it personally lol
As you say every situation is different, even the same junction can be different every time you approach it, what with traffic, roadworks, pedestrians and a million other variables.
However in this specific incident the driver approached his manouvere completely wrong, maybe he spotted the road at the last minute and was unprepared, we’ve all done it, but then you take extra care, especially if you’re in that kind of position as you will be looking out of the nearside mirror to make sure you don’t run over the old lady’s toes.
The bike was in the blindspot caused by the A pillar and mirrors, but it wasn’t a blindspot through the whole manouvere, yes you need eyes in the back of your head so as not to miss anything, but that’s the difference between a driver and a licence holder.
On top of all that, the biker was a bit of a div too, it was obvious the path the lorry was going to take, he should’ve stopped earlier and gave the lorry a bit more room, even though the lorry driver had made a balls up, it’s all well and good being in the right, but it didn’t do his Duke a lot of good did it…
albion1971:
Why oh why are there so many drivers that cannot accept when a lorry is in the wrong? The motorcyclist did nothing wrong.
The lorry driver was completely at fault. This is why I keep banging on about the basic LGV test being too simple.
The facts that drivers do not know how to drive properly are proved on here everyday by ignorant comments and this is why we get such a bad name.
Any arguments■■?
My thoughts exactly!!..biker is totally innocent of any wrongdoing!
newmercman:
paulweller84:
Newmercman: personally I disagree with that method. If the driver were to move out the right approaching his left hand turn to allow him to turn in without crossing the centre line of the road he is entering, what would happen if, on approach a vehicle came from the road on the left wanting to turn right? I’ve had trainees attempt this many times and often it results in a ‘check mate’ scenario where you want to turn left, the other vehicle wants to turn right and one of you has to reverse. You’re better staying in your lane on approach, slowing right down to see into the road before turning, then taking a slow wide turn with full observation into the road.My verdict, Selco driver 100% at fault for not observing the road being entered sufficiently to avoid losing other roads users in the N/S mirror/A pillar blind spot, plus excessive approach and enter speed.
Love that BBC article by the way. Great advice from the ‘expert.’
This statement is one of the reasons why those that can, do, and those that can’t, teach!
If you’ve ever driven a lorry in an urban environment then you would know that you use as much of the road you are leaving as you can, if there is a vehicle coming up the road you are trying to enter, the wide swing before the turn would mean that the vehicle in that road can continue to the end of the road unhindered as you will be on your side of the road as you have approached the junction correctly.
If you are trying to tell me that the correct approach is to hug the kerb and go into oncoming traffic in the road you are entering then, I’m sorry, but that is complete ■■■■■■■■ and if that is the standard to which new drivers are being taught, then God help us.
+1
I’ve never heard so much ■■■■■■■■ since I heard that RM ‘expert’. You swing wide on approach, observe the road you’re about to turn in to, if a vehicle is coming down and wanting to turn right, you stop BEFORE the road - no reversing required, it’s not bloody rocket science.
By swinging wide - where possible - it IMPROVES your vision of the road you’re entering, with big thick pillars and multiple mirrors on todays lorrys, the nearside front corner is terrible for vision, so take it out of the equation.
Do us a favour, don’t teach anyone else, you’re crap and your instruction will put more crap drivers with no bloody idea on the roads - like they’re not bad enough anyway
“Talking of ■■■■■■■■.”
Brilliant.
Notice when I don’t agree with someone I politely explain my reasons for it, and back it up with evidence. Just saying ‘you have a disease of talking ■■■■■■■■’ doesn’t really strengthen your argument.
paulweller84:
“Talking of ■■■■■■■■.”Brilliant.
Notice when I don’t agree with someone I politely explain my reasons for it, and back it up with evidence. Just saying ‘you have a disease of talking ■■■■■■■■’ doesn’t really strengthen your argument.
Maybe because you’re disagreeing with an EXPERIENCED driver, who actually knows what they’re doing and on about, by talking crap, and he’s pointing out the fact you’re talking ■■■■■■■■.
I agree with him
Thank you. “You’re crap.”
National average pass rate: 55%
My pass rate: in excess of 80%.
First time pass on DVSA Part 2 & 3, Driving and Instructional ability test.
Highest performing LGV Instructor in my current contract.