Evil8Beezle:
Is this now another EU political discussion thread?
I wonder how that happened?
To be fair to Winseer 
to have a ‘post’ EU UK we’ve first to to have a Brexit and it looks like we ain’t going to get that without having a ‘political discussion’ first.Myself having now decided that it’s probably easier and more productive to join the remainers by remaining in it and then change it to a Confederal system,as opposed to Federal,from within. 
The EU has to honour current contracts for delivery as well as we do to them.
Meanwhile, there’s nothing stopping us restricting immigration straight away, and implementing other infrastructure aspects of Brexit.
If the EU wants to default it’s commodity delivery arrangements - then that counts as an embargo, and could be construed as an act of war.
Everyone needs to remain calm, and let current contracts run their course. There’s no use the EU getting upset over us pulling up the drawbridge migration-wise, as there’s actually bugger all they can do to stop us other than threaten said act of war against us.
If you think about it - there is no reason at all that we NEED to be “punished” for doing our own thing here. “It was a great gravy train whilst it lasted” as far as the EU commissioners are concerned - but now it’s done with.
Our own people need to be cranking that drawbridge instead of listening to Krankie. 
“Access to the single market” should mean in terms of “setting up new deals in the future” - NOT “Honoring current deals” We get told “It will take two years to leave” - it doesn’t take two years to implement a points-based immigration system.
I’m leaning towards agreeing that there should be “no general election this year now” - because if there were - it would be like giving away a second referendum after all!
I’m horrified that there are 48% of remainers in this country, looking at how the vast majority of them have behaved so far following the result! 
Evil8Beezle:
Is this now another EU political discussion thread?
I wonder how that happened?
I reckon the pollsters should have taken these discussion groups more seriously. They are not just on TnUK - they are on all sorts of other bulletin boards as well, kicked around and discussed until the cows come home, which isn’t any time soon…
Winseer:
The EU has to honour current contracts for delivery as well as we do to them.Meanwhile, there’s nothing stopping us restricting immigration straight away, and implementing other infrastructure aspects of Brexit.
If the EU wants to default it’s commodity delivery arrangements - then that counts as an embargo, and could be construed as an act of war.
Everyone needs to remain calm, and let current contracts run their course. There’s no use the EU getting upset over us pulling up the drawbridge migration-wise, as there’s actually bugger all they can do to stop us other than threaten said act of war against us.
If you think about it - there is no reason at all that we NEED to be “punished” for doing our own thing here. “It was a great gravy train whilst it lasted” as far as the EU commissioners are concerned - but now it’s done with.
Our own people need to be cranking that drawbridge instead of listening to Krankie.
“Access to the single market” should mean in terms of “setting up new deals in the future” - NOT “Honoring current deals” We get told “It will take two years to leave” - it doesn’t take two years to implement a points-based immigration system.
I’m leaning towards agreeing that there should be “no general election this year now” - because if there were - it would be like giving away a second referendum after all!
I’m horrified that there are 48% of remainers in this country, looking at how the vast majority of them have behaved so far following the result!
By ‘drawbridge’ are you referring to free movement rules or just illegals/‘refugees’.In which case unless we’re talking about a major change in our domestic immigration policy how would anything change regards the latter.While the former is obviously subject to the terms of article 50 being discharged.Let alone the chances of Europhile puppet May and her Europhile handlers getting rid of free movement as part of any so called ‘Brexit’ deal anyway.IE EEA is the best we can hope for assuming the whole thing isn’t just kicked into the long grass.
As I said probably easier to let the remainers win this one and then fight them from within the EU.Where we’ll have more allies in the form of the AfD and FN among others in addition to the UKIP prescence in the EU parliament which we’re never going to re produce in the National one.
As opposed to trying to do mission impossible of the contradiction between going for Brexit with the Federalist Europhile majority in the National parliament with UKIP’s influence gone in the EU.On that note trust me it’s time for a massive rethink regards the minimal damage we can do to the Europhiles from the now compromised to the point of being worthless Brexit position.As opposed to giving gthe zb’s what they want then going with them back into Europe and then taking the zb’s on on European turf.Which ironically could well turn out to be far more hostile to them than home turf ever will.IE AfD and FN etc there helping us go for a Confederal Europe.As opposed to Lab/LibDem/Con/SNP at home maintaining the Socialist driven agenda here.
IE as it stands Europe is arguably a more Nationalist friendly place than the UK is.In which case we’ve got more chance of turning Europe back on the Federalists right across Europe in the form of a Confederal European government system.Than the UK wanting to follow a Nationalist agenda at home in the National parliament. 
7 on 7 off shift pattern
And we should all be provided a glamorous female assistant, like in that movie death race 2000
Carryfast:
Winseer:
This vote will prove who is left to do the bull then.If Brexiteers are not appeased by a remain PM such as Theresa May - they’ll pay for it at the ballot box be that this autumn or 2020… The Tories are not going to be any better off hanging out the next election if they do nothing but backstab Brexiteers (rather than the British Bulldog option) between now and then.
I agree that there is not enough power in the parlimentary Tory party to make a decent cabinet of “Only” Brexiteers. If that were possible, Gove wouldn’t be wielding the knife in the first place - he’d be endorsing whichever candidate were obvious enough to romp it on personal charisma alone, which even he knows he lacks.
I’m forced then to take seriously Theresa May’s “cunning plan” of being the “acceptable face of Parlimentary Remain” then. Her “Brexit means Brexit” is going to have to do - Purists be damned.
If anyone goes so far as to openly attempt to reverse the poll, and give us the “Irish Solution” for example - I predict there will be a political party in this country within a decade that start pushing towards a 21st century version of the FINAL solution. - Surely no one wants THAT?!
Let’s just say that I’m a UKIP voter and Theresa May instead of David Davis says it all in certainly not appeasing me.Let alone not invoking article 50 on the 24th June.Or at best swapping EU for EEA members state.While even assuming the best case scenario of a swing to UKIP.The Con Eurosceptic vote has been shown to be no more effective now than it was when Powell tried to fight off Heath’s Federalist Europhile agenda.While even the narrow Labour UKIP swing vote based margin,reflected in the referendum vote,still isn’t enough and/or too widely spread across the country,to defeat the combined Europhile Lab/LibDem/Con/SNP vote in parliament.At the very least without a voting system based on PR.
In which case realistically we’re in the same,or at least similar, place now as we were before the referendum.Ironically with possibly an even weaker Eurosceptic agenda than before.
As for the Final Solution bollox.No I don’t think that the AfD and FN are genocidal maniacs.They are Nationalists just like Michael Collins was a Nationalist not a ■■■■.If you want to look for the real threat it will be the ever increasing strength of Socialist Federalism putting down the last dying embers of Nation State sovereignty,independence and self determination,across Europe.In which case just hope and pray that the two examples I’ve given there among others can hold the line before it’s too late.
As for us unfortunately this country has obviously swallowed the bs Socialist indoctrination and propaganda,that Nationalist means ■■■■,hook line and sinker and is now therefore part of the problem in Europe,not the solution.
The Nazis didn’t start out as Genocidal Maniacs either. They just got pushed back against over and over again whilst they themselves had just taken power more democratically.
If history repeats itself, it would go something like this:
“A right-wing party wins power fair and square somewhere in the EU, let’s say FN wins a small majority… Once in power, they constantly find all laws and reforms they try to make - blocked by the 48% that didn’t vote for them - and blocked with increasing levels of venom. Scandals would be dug up over ministers, private residences of ministers would be firebombed, and eventually the ministers themselves would find themselves being the targets of lobbed bricks and fireworks rather than just eggs and silly string. After a particular major incident (let’s say an arson attack on a major government meeting venue) - the incumbent government then declares a state of emergency, effectively introducing a police state. The hurlers of bricks, which have already claimed the lives of three ministers in the past week alone - are now being shot on sight. The government forces then go on the rampage trying to find “friends of the assassins” - which isn’t hard, as they continue to hold their “anarchist” marches each and every day.”
…And so it begins. With the people not accepting their new democratically elected government, which instead of “getting things done at long last” - actually starts a civil war instead.
The REAL reason we don’t elect “Far Right” governments then - is because we KNOW that massive minority of the public are not going to take it lying down, and will choose to fight a civil war against newly invested government in the name of “Anti Fascism” actually causing to come to pass the very things they were originally supposed to be afraid of".
Everyone knows Hitler “went off the rails” - but few people discuss WHY - and until the wider peoples of the world take a pragmatic look at history instead of being “forbidden to talk about anything ■■■■” as we do - we risk very greatly that “History repeating itself” sooner or later. 
I am rather worried by factions such as Momentum right now for instance… It is THEY more than anyone who would tease out a future “■■■■ Style” government in this country, which might even consist of the same very people within it!
Carryfast:
Winseer:
The EU has to honour current contracts for delivery as well as we do to them.Meanwhile, there’s nothing stopping us restricting immigration straight away, and implementing other infrastructure aspects of Brexit.
If the EU wants to default it’s commodity delivery arrangements - then that counts as an embargo, and could be construed as an act of war.
Everyone needs to remain calm, and let current contracts run their course. There’s no use the EU getting upset over us pulling up the drawbridge migration-wise, as there’s actually bugger all they can do to stop us other than threaten said act of war against us.
If you think about it - there is no reason at all that we NEED to be “punished” for doing our own thing here. “It was a great gravy train whilst it lasted” as far as the EU commissioners are concerned - but now it’s done with.
Our own people need to be cranking that drawbridge instead of listening to Krankie.
“Access to the single market” should mean in terms of “setting up new deals in the future” - NOT “Honoring current deals” We get told “It will take two years to leave” - it doesn’t take two years to implement a points-based immigration system.
I’m leaning towards agreeing that there should be “no general election this year now” - because if there were - it would be like giving away a second referendum after all!
I’m horrified that there are 48% of remainers in this country, looking at how the vast majority of them have behaved so far following the result!
By ‘drawbridge’ are you referring to free movement rules or just illegals/‘refugees’.In which case unless we’re talking about a major change in our domestic immigration policy how would anything change regards the latter.While the former is obviously subject to the terms of article 50 being discharged.Let alone the chances of Europhile puppet May and her Europhile handlers getting rid of free movement as part of any so called ‘Brexit’ deal anyway.IE EEA is the best we can hope for assuming the whole thing isn’t just kicked into the long grass.
As I said probably easier to let the remainers win this one and then fight them from within the EU.Where we’ll have more allies in the form of the AfD and FN among others in addition to the UKIP prescence in the EU parliament which we’re never going to re produce in the National one.
As opposed to trying to do mission impossible of the contradiction between going for Brexit with the Federalist Europhile majority in the National parliament with UKIP’s influence gone in the EU.On that note trust me it’s time for a massive rethink regards the minimal damage we can do to the Europhiles from the now compromised to the point of being worthless Brexit position.As opposed to giving gthe zb’s what they want then going with them back into Europe and then taking the zb’s on on European turf.Which ironically could well turn out to be far more hostile to them than home turf ever will.IE AfD and FN etc there helping us go for a Confederal Europe.As opposed to Lab/LibDem/Con/SNP at home maintaining the Socialist driven agenda here.
IE as it stands Europe is arguably a more Nationalist friendly place than the UK is.In which case we’ve got more chance of turning Europe back on the Federalists right across Europe in the form of a Confederal European government system.Than the UK wanting to follow a Nationalist agenda at home in the National parliament.
IF the EU were to vote democratically 80% to 20% that all British people must commit suicide straight away - then we would have to break that law, and hold firm to save our own lives.
Let’s say it then - Federalism needs to be destroyed in the world as much as Fascism or even Feudalism - once the demographic no longer supports such a system.
(pah pah spit spit - I hate even using that ‘F’ word!)
To pull up the drawbridge we merely need to keep running the system for bringing in “Legit” immigrants, ie those who have already got jobs lined up, with careful attention to the ratio of menfolk to unattached female entrants being kept as close to 50:50 as possible. All others then - be they Illegal Immigrants/Refugees/All male/not from the EU but most of all NO PAPERS - get incarcerated until they tell us what country they’d like to be deported to other than one next door to us. That will mean Germany or their country of origin then. Germany as supposed to be accepting “all comers” but I think they’d block such a move by the UK, so we end up keeping these people locked up until they admit that they are Turkmen pretending to be coming to the UK as Syrian Refugees, or the losing side in the latest African upset, or whatever. They can stay locked up until they start talking. If they don’t want to talk at all, then they are presumably happy to run away from certain death to certain incarceration instead - as they seem to be doing.
It sounds harsh, but it WOULD have an effect of deflecting those illegal immigrants of dubious background in particular - away from the UK.
THIS then - is “Pulling up the drawbridge” - and we don’t need the EU’s help to implement such a policy, and we don’t need to hurt anyone either. In fact, a lot of lives would be saved - because they don’t even bother trying to come here any more, so we don’t find hoards of them dead in the back of freezer trucks in laybys, the saddest of such incidents where I lay the blame at this “myth” that illegal immigrants should go to Britain rather than the first “free” nation they reach - Its for the benefits of course. We’re not even getting them to renounce their entire past regime mindsets up arrival as it stands FFS… 
chrisdalott:
7 on 7 off shift patternAnd we should all be provided a glamorous female assistant, like in that movie death race 2000
Would they be prepared to double man you if you’re gay then? 
Winseer:
I’m horrified that there are 48% of remainers in this country, looking at how the vast majority of them have behaved so far following the result!
I don’t think there are 48%. I would say it’s more around 30-35%. I think the figures were fudged down to 52-48 in hope of a second referendum or refusal of invoking article 50. If it really did come down to 1.4million votes, it would’ve been fudged the other way. Leaving the eu is not good for the higher classes, and the peasants have revolted. If it had gone the other way, there would have been no way they could hide the mass corruption due to what I think was a massive gap, and if they think there’s mass movements with remain marches, brexit marches would’ve ended up more like the poll tax riots
To be honest i’d be quite happy for the WTD & Drivers Hours rules to stay put as they are, except the WTD rules need adjusting so that the regs apply to ‘duty time’ rather than ‘working time’.
In other words, you can’t be at work with your card in for more than 60 hours a week or 48 on average - period.
Winseer:
Carryfast:
As for the Final Solution bollox.No I don’t think that the AfD and FN are genocidal maniacs.They are Nationalists just like Michael Collins was a Nationalist not a ■■■■.If you want to look for the real threat it will be the ever increasing strength of Socialist Federalism putting down the last dying embers of Nation State sovereignty,independence and self determination,across Europe.In which case just hope and pray that the two examples I’ve given there among others can hold the line before it’s too late.As for us unfortunately this country has obviously swallowed the bs Socialist indoctrination and propaganda,that Nationalist means ■■■■,hook line and sinker and is now therefore part of the problem in Europe,not the solution.
The Nazis didn’t start out as Genocidal Maniacs either. They just got pushed back against over and over again whilst they themselves had just taken power more democratically.
If history repeats itself, it would go something like this:“A right-wing party wins power fair and square somewhere in the EU, let’s say FN wins a small majority… Once in power, they constantly find all laws and reforms they try to make - blocked by the 48% that didn’t vote for them - and blocked with increasing levels of venom. Scandals would be dug up over ministers, private residences of ministers would be firebombed, and eventually the ministers themselves would find themselves being the targets of lobbed bricks and fireworks rather than just eggs and silly string. After a particular major incident (let’s say an arson attack on a major government meeting venue) - the incumbent government then declares a state of emergency, effectively introducing a police state. The hurlers of bricks, which have already claimed the lives of three ministers in the past week alone - are now being shot on sight. The government forces then go on the rampage trying to find “friends of the assassins” - which isn’t hard, as they continue to hold their “anarchist” marches each and every day.”
…And so it begins. With the people not accepting their new democratically elected government, which instead of “getting things done at long last” - actually starts a civil war instead.
The REAL reason we don’t elect “Far Right” governments then - is because we KNOW that massive minority of the public are not going to take it lying down, and will choose to fight a civil war against newly invested government in the name of “Anti Fascism” actually causing to come to pass the very things they were originally supposed to be afraid of".
Everyone knows Hitler “went off the rails” - but few people discuss WHY - and until the wider peoples of the world take a pragmatic look at history instead of being “forbidden to talk about anything ■■■■” as we do - we risk very greatly that “History repeating itself” sooner or later.
I am rather worried by factions such as Momentum right now for instance… It is THEY more than anyone who would tease out a future “■■■■ Style” government in this country, which might even consist of the same very people within it!
Hitler didn’t go off any ‘rails’ as any backlash against undemocratic forces.Just like momentum the key is that like them he was a Socialist.Just as in the case of Stalin’s ideas it was Socialism that instigated the final solution.
While as I said there’s no reason to think that the FN’s agenda is any different to that of any other Nationalist like Michael Collins for example.Which means what it says on the tin .IE no Nationalist doesn’t mean ■■■■ and no genocide isn’t part of its MO.
As for Socialism being a subversive undemocratic dangerous ideology that prefers removal of its opposition rather than democracy.We ain’t going to fix that by allowing Altiero Spinelli’s project to go on unchallenged.
In which case as I said supporting European Nationalism in the form of a Confederal Europe is the answer to that.Which in this case would firstly require smashing the bs Federalist idea and propaganda that a Confederal system would create a non existent ‘impasse’ in the decision making process.
While Chinese Communism seems to be involved in all this behind the scenes ?.In which case we’re in the dangerous position of the Chinese trying to takeover the ( so far ) free world agenda with a momentum type fifth column in place within.With that so called free world now dominated by the self interest of a few at the top who see more to be gained by going along with it than fighting it.
OVLOV JAY:
I don’t think there are 48%. I would say it’s more around 30-35%. I think the figures were fudged down to 52-48 in hope of a second referendum or refusal of invoking article 50. If it really did come down to 1.4million votes, it would’ve been fudged the other way. Leaving the eu is not good for the higher classes, and the peasants have revolted. If it had gone the other way, there would have been no way they could hide the mass corruption due to what I think was a massive gap, and if they think there’s mass movements with remain marches, brexit marches would’ve ended up more like the poll tax riots
Regardless of the figure the fact is there’s no way that a 52% referendum figure can be translated to 52% in parliament.On that note what has the Leave vote really gained other than to take out what power we had in the EU parliament in the form of UKIP and hand the initiative back to the Federalist majority in parliament.Who’ve,at best,now got the win win of UKIP being neutered in Europe with us still tied to EU Federal rule assuming they go for the EEA option.
The best we can actually hope for is actually that Tharesa May actually does allow herself to be swayed by the Federalist referendum vote in kicking Brexit into the long grass.Where we’ll then be able to continue this argument where it needs to take place in Europe.That being a pan European Nationalist v Socialist/Federalist one not the phoney UK one with a UK electorate already brainwashed along Socialist Federalist lines.
While assuming she goes for the former Farage would have scored the biggest own goal in history.
Farage wouldn’t have scored any own goal, it would be Cameron and May scoring them. Cameron for having the referendum that killed his political career very early in his life, and May for getting elected on a manifesto of implementing brexit. Farage will sit back with a smug look on his face, knowing the whole political class is corrupt, apart from people like him
OVLOV JAY:
Farage wouldn’t have scored any own goal, it would be Cameron and May scoring them. Cameron for having the referendum that killed his political career very early in his life, and May for getting elected on a manifesto of implementing brexit. Farage will sit back with a smug look on his face, knowing the whole political class is corrupt, apart from people like him
Trust me if May goes for the EEA option ( likely ) it’s Farage who will have been stuffed.IE we lose UKIP’s representation in Europe but we keep EU regulation and rule.
As opposed to go along with the remainers get back into Europe and then fight the Federalists from within with UKIP still there and an increasing level of European Nationalism to help us.The new Austrian election vote possibly being the turning point in that regard not the bs phoney Brexit one.
Carryfast banned from the internet.
Colin_scottish:
Carryfast banned from the internet.
So we can obviously count you out for support of a free Europe in the form a Confederal one not a Federal one.
Carryfast:
Colin_scottish:
Carryfast banned from the internet.So we can obviously count you out for support of a free Europe in the form a Confederal one not a Federal one.
I voted for leave just that you have kicked the arse of google and the copy and paste function
Banning people from quoting long posts over and over on forums.
Colin_scottish:
Carryfast:
Colin_scottish:
Carryfast banned from the internet.So we can obviously count you out for support of a free Europe in the form a Confederal one not a Federal one.
I voted for leave just that you have kicked the arse of google and the copy and paste function
I voted for leave too.Unfortunately if I’d have thought for one minute that would result in Federalist May being PM instead of a David Davis and Kate Hoey led coalition to take us out and May probably then predictably replacing EU with EEA I’d have abstained.What the zb has google got to do with that fact.
So we lose UKIP in Europe and we end up with a Europhile PM still subject to EU rule and regulation.While cutting ourselves of from a growing Nationalist movement in Europe which could have done what we wanted much sooner in the form of turning the EU from a Federation into a Confederation.Instead of which we’ve given more power to the Federalists in that regard.
Carryfast:
Colin_scottish:
Carryfast:
Colin_scottish:
Carryfast banned from the internet.So we can obviously count you out for support of a free Europe in the form a Confederal one not a Federal one.
I voted for leave just that you have kicked the arse of google and the copy and paste function
I voted for leave too.Unfortunately if I’d have thought for one minute that would result in Federalist May being PM instead of a David Davis and Kate Hoey led coalition to take us out and May probably then predictably replacing EU with EEA I’d have abstained.What the zb has google got to do with that fact.
So we lose UKIP in Europe and we end up with a Europhile PM still subject to EU rule and regulation.While cutting ourselves of from a growing Nationalist movement in Europe which could have done what we wanted much sooner in the form of turning the EU from a Federation into a Confederation.Instead of which we’ve given more power to the Federalists in that regard.
The whole uk is ■■■■■■ know one has a clue what they want next.Thabk all the viters that let the cameron in to start with.The Tories destroyed this country when they shut everything people have short memories.
