union.

UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUMS THE UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUM (INTERACTIVE)
61

Janos:

msgyorkie:
Plenty of Non Unionised places that are also slow tips. Usually it’s not because of a lazy workforce but how a regime is set in place by management.
How do you know that the crane driver is tossing it off? Maybe his regime has him filling out paperwork in between lifts.
Where I work we have a stupid new manager who has declared that we can no longer load ourselves by hiab and instead must wait for the forklift to become available. So what used to take 30 mins can now take an hour. In the mean time trucks are backing up to the gate because of this mis-management.

Seriously? Read the trade press re Felixstowe, and do some container work, then come back and comment.

We’ve had a thread about Felixstowe recently. It showed that queues were getting worse there recently.
No change in union representation recently but a change in management. Links on there to various trade sites.
Would you care to read it and then come back and comment?

62

Anybody who has been to Felixstowe to get a box lifted is not going to be blaming the management as he waits for the crane to move. It is obvious where the problem is.
Smug…something I suspect you know a lot about, entitled crane operators ignoring the waiting vehicles. It is as simple as that.

63

Janos:

msgyorkie:
Plenty of Non Unionised places that are also slow tips. Usually it’s not because of a lazy workforce but how a regime is set in place by management.
How do you know that the crane driver is tossing it off? Maybe his regime has him filling out paperwork in between lifts.
Where I work we have a stupid new manager who has declared that we can no longer load ourselves by hiab and instead must wait for the forklift to become available. So what used to take 30 mins can now take an hour. In the mean time trucks are backing up to the gate because of this mis-management.

Seriously? Read the trade press re Felixstowe, and do some container work, then come back and comment.

I done containers about 15 years ago on a 6 month contract. Honestly…apart from the wind halting operations I never had much of a wait for the crane to come to me. I cannot recall ever waiting for more than 10 minutes once im in the lane. However I conceed that shift change used to drive me up the wall especialy when it was my turn at the gate.

64

Mick Bracewell:
I’m not advocating anything. They are simply the facts. Haulage contracts get awarded on price, nothing more. The customers don’t care that you’ve got to work 70 hours a week. Get a union in to squeeze an extra quid an hour out of the boss and your operating costs suddenly increase significantly. Either one of two things happen : 1. company can no longer make a profit on that contract so either doesn’t tender when the contract comes up for renewal or they do tender but they’re too expensive. 2. as above, but tells the customer that the price is going up. Customer scoffs and says no ta and picks up the phone to Wincanton who say “no problem sir, when would you like us to start?”.

It seems to me what you are calling the “customer” is actually the real employer.

And what you call the “customer scoffing” is actually that real employer sacking the entire workforce and their gangmasters, and replacing them with another.

This is why so-called secondary action - the taking of action against any related employer in a particular sector - was always essential for unionised workers.

Another thing to watch out for these days is that what used to be employers’ associations - talking shops for bosses to set collective policy and pursue strategy - now exist as analytical departments within banks.

If they get wind of troubles with unionisation or an otherwise stubborn workforce on good pay and conditions, what the banks do is bankroll a new competitor or outsource contractor with strong anti-union policies, and slowly transfer work to the new competitor, either until the union in the established firm is smashed, or until the established firm withers and dies and whose operations are entirely absorbed by the new competitor.

65

Janos:
Anybody who has been to Felixstowe to get a box lifted is not going to be blaming the management as he waits for the crane to move. It is obvious where the problem is.
Smug…something I suspect you know a lot about, entitled crane operators ignoring the waiting vehicles. It is as simple as that.

“Obvious” is what you see.
The reason you aren’t moving in traffic is the vehicle whose taillights you’re looking at.
The cause is the fool at the front who has booked a ferry without checking if they own any boats!

66

HOW DID I MISS THIS POST !!! Been too busy driving trains on Rest day work(AKA overtime)

Trains don`t drive themselves you know. LMAO :smiley: :smiley: :smiley: :smiley: (Stop believing the crap you read in the papers) :smiley:

Well done to the Hoyer drivers on STICKING together.

#ASLEF - Im a proud 100% union member and stand side by side with my fellow train drivers !!!

67

Mick Bracewell:
TFL can’t exactly get another Tube company in to replace the existing one when they decide to go on strike because reasons, ergo the current Tube company has them by the balls and can dictate any terms or money they want because there is no competition to worry about. Try that in road transport and see how it goes for you. Or just rewind a few years and see how it panned out when Stobart Doncaster drivers tried it :exclamation: . You might win your battle in the short-term but if the customer gets a better offer on the table from Wincanton (other logistics companies are available) then it no longer matters how fantastic your T&Cs are when you’re sat at home with no income after being made redundant when your company lost the work to them.

Well put. That’s the way free markets work.

The only way to make unions work for trucking is like they used to operate in the USA during the Jimmy Hoffa era. Basically they acted like a mob and used mafia tactics, so in your example an un-unionized company showing up to undercut an unionized one would soon find all its trucks have mysteriously caught fire on the same night, their drivers would get harassed/beaten up or worse, companies who sign contracts with that new company would have some…issues as well etc. Eventually everyone got the message. Did drivers benefit - yeah, did J. Hoffa get rich in that scheme by stealing union money - yeah.

68

Anyone looked at unions in say…Sweden? Germany?
Both free western countries, both have strong unions, with good workers conditions and successful national economies, it seems to me. Might be more relevant than the US 60 years ago?

69

Janos:

discoman:

Janos:
What part of ‘closed shop’ do some of you not get?

There is a reason why you are not train drivers for TFL, or Ford Car transporter drivers or driving petrol tankers for top rates of pay, and that is because until very recently unless you were family or a union crony or a bone idle two faced shop steward you had no chance of getting in there.
You back their fight to retain their exalted working conditions even at the expense of your own jobs.
If the Union had any backbone it would be fighting the low wage long hours culture of the industry, but that does not fit in with their political view. They are the masters, you are the proletariat mugs.
We do need a union…we need an honest one.

Stop talking BS, when I joined London Underground in 1997, I had no family members in the job at all… I applied got an interview and got the job… only thing about London Underground, is you can’t be externally recruited as a driver, a lot has changed since I left but that’s still a rule the RMT were the biggest waste of space ASLEF were good as well as TSSA.
TFL, well, lul were part privatised anyway, the Public private partnership, there were 3 companies doing repairs and upgraded , the JNP, BCV and the MHD lines I can’t recall the full breakdown but it was like that when worked there 20 years ago

BS? When the plum drivers jobs are not advertised so the general public can’t apply?
Who wouldn’t if they could?
Getting paid a middle managers wage with all the pension benefits etc for driving what is essentially a fairground ride.
You can’t see what is wrong even when its right in front of you. Good jobs and working conditions should not be the preserve of the few and their cronies…especially when the hypocritical gits get on their high socialist horses shouting the odds.

As I said, tube driver roles are advertised internally, most used to join as a guard, it stopped in 1999 on Northern Line then they would apply for a drivers role when advertised within LUL, why should they allow the general Joe public to apply, anyways it’s not permitted since 2008 … it’s not for a few cronies, anyone can apply to be station staff, then apply when in the job … I don’t get what is wrong with it …person sally I would never of wanted to drive a train boring as hell in the dark all day if on vic line etc …

70

ETS:
Did drivers benefit - yeah, did J. Hoffa get rich in that scheme by stealing union money - yeah.

By all accounts Hoffa also got dead in that scheme.

A great many people now rent their homes, their cars, and most other significant elements of their possessions and lifestyle.

As this continues to increase, we will likely see an increase in riot tactics against “free market” competitors, because if you own nothing then there is very little they can take from you as punishment for lawbreaking in order to protect your current livelihood.

It’s how and why unions were first established in the face of legal restrictions, mob strikebreakers, “detective agencies”, and so on, because people were already so poor and oppressed that they simply had nothing to lose.

Prior to and during WW2, the mob in America was often used to try and suppress labour strikes and unrest, not just by private employers but generally with official assistance. The legacy of that close contact between the mob, employers, the government, and organised labour, was that many post-war labour leaders were themselves mob-connected, the bureaucracy of the American state ended up riddled with mob corruption, and many employers found themselves the victims of mob extortion rather than the orchestrators of it.

71

Franglais:
Anyone looked at unions in say…Sweden? Germany?
Both free western countries, both have strong unions, with good workers conditions and successful national economies, it seems to me. Might be more relevant than the US 60 years ago?

I can’t speak to Sweden, but German workers have been suffering the usual neoliberal attacks in the past 20 years, and Germany is only doing relatively well because it is winning an economic war against the rest of Europe.

But if we and others emulated the strengths of Germany in every respect, then it would no longer have an advantage. And without an advantage, it’s workers would be even worse off, as it would no longer be able to offset attacks on its own workers by thrashing workers in other countries.

72

Always makes me laugh when the people who won’t join the Union “Because it’s a waste of money and they don’t do anything anyway” come creeping round the ones who are in the Union asking what’s happening or have you heard owt when it’s negotiation time or somethings going on…

73

Yorkielad:
Always makes me laugh when the people who won’t join the Union “Because it’s a waste of money and they don’t do anything anyway” come creeping round the ones who are in the Union asking what’s happening or have you heard owt when it’s negotiation time or somethings going on…

Always the first to trouser the benefits the union has negotiated over the years too, whether thats sickies or milking OT or whatever.
Not forgetting to gripe about how measly the annual (yes every single bloody year) pay award is/was :unamused:

74

been in a unionised workplace for 17 years now, had a payrise EVERY year, got fantastic T&Cs, we have no secondary contracts on site. Any change is consulted/negotiated if inferior its knocked back. In fact i thought the union was that good i became the shop steward 8 years ago, i can second what Juddian says, the people who moan about the union are the none union members who reap the benefits of what the members achieve. Bring back closed shops i say.

75

Juddian:

Yorkielad:
Always makes me laugh when the people who won’t join the Union “Because it’s a waste of money and they don’t do anything anyway” come creeping round the ones who are in the Union asking what’s happening or have you heard owt when it’s negotiation time or somethings going on…

Always the first to trouser the benefits the union has negotiated over the years too, whether thats sickies or milking OT or whatever.
Not forgetting to gripe about how measly the annual (yes every single bloody year) pay award is/was :unamused:

Very true.
We had a dispute a couple of years ago and the Non Union employees where demanding that I get my Union in to “sort it out” :open_mouth:

76

Not pro or anti unions but you only had to listen to Len McCluskey this morning on the Today programme to see why they are losing their popularity, stick to workers issues and not supporting a busted flush anti-sematic politician and you might start to regain some members.

77

Mazzer2:
Not pro or anti unions but you only had to listen to Len McCluskey this morning on the Today programme to see why they are losing their popularity, stick to workers issues and not supporting a busted flush anti-sematic politician and you might start to regain some members.

Agreed regarding McCluskey.
That’s why my subs don’t go to Labour.

I’m not fan of unions…but my place needs the one it’s got and needs to grow

Sent from my SM-G981B using Tapatalk

78

Len needs to go .I wish i could do a Father Ted and kick him.The union has lost focus.They should go back to basics.I even fought for a reduction in membership fees when covid started but they would not listen.

79

WheelsofCardiff:
Len needs to go .I wish i could do a Father Ted and kick him.The union has lost focus.They should go back to basics.I even fought for a reduction in membership fees when covid started but they would not listen.

Len is hardly going to agree to a cut in subscriptions after all he has his champagne socialist lifestyle to maintain paid for by his memebers

80

I’ve never agreed with the notion that “Any price is worth paying to save our own full timer jobs, and any price is worth paying via pay cuts”.

All the times I’ve ever been got rid of? - has been because the Union there wished it. :imp:

No Union? - I’m a LOT safer in the workplace.

A driver’s pay is low enough that one should be hired or fired over one’s ability to drive the truck without costing the firm extra money in the process.
It should not be about political correctness running up a tab at the firm “trying to cover their own positions all the time”, which all-too-often results in yours truly getting the bullet, and even then - "only by indirect read: “Dishonest” means.

To date, I’ve been let go from a total of 7 jobs over the past decade, and sacked never. BUT only 3 of those 7 were “redundancy” reasons, meaning the other four are■■?

I was never sacked from Royal Mail nor Manpower, nor Waitrose nor Staffline - and yet have been treated like I was ever since.
Unions are there to protect full timers from reducing in number. - that’s it.

What puzzles me is why people would rather be “booted upstairs” from Driver to acting manager role, rather than just take a payoff, and walk away completely? There’s even a cap on the amount one can get from a redundancy package these days, so the LAST thing an old hand should think is “My job of 20+ years is worth more than THAT” when a redundancy package is offered for one’s early exit…

Those who chickened out, ducking the VR package?

…Did life get better for you later? Did it f—! is what I keep hearing from those I know and knew from the full time world. :unamused:

There’s always someone worse off though…
Another driver i used to know that started same time I did (i.e. had same seniority) got fired on a pretence shortly after I left RM with a decent payoff… He got bugger-all of course, and that’s a threat EVERY long-standing member of staff has over their heads these days… “Got rid of, so the firm didn’t have to pay out redundancy”… At least I managed to dodge THAT bullet back in the day! :open_mouth: It also made me “never regret” leaving when I did, because I would have shortly have been next in line to be “Clintoned” - had I stayed… :bulb: