British workers are among the worst idlers in the world, we work among the lowest hours, we retire early and our productivity is poor.
Darkside:
British workers are among the worst idlers in the world, we work among the lowest hours, we retire early and our productivity is poor.
Productivity is not just a measure of how one works. A single worker pushing a couple of buttons on an automated production line is much more productive than a lumberjack sweating away with an axe.
Productivity is low in the UK partly because companies don’t invest enough in plant and technology.
Darkside:
British workers are among the worst idlers in the world, we work among the lowest hours, we retire early and our productivity is poor.
We work the lowest hours? 
A working week in excess of 70 hours could hardly be described as low.
Conor:
Harry Monk:
short walk:
Unions ■■■■. Don’t care what you say!Absolutely. I mean, who’d want to be earning £55,000 a year for a 35 hour week like a tube train driver when you could be earning £28,000 for a 70 hour week like a truck driver?
They won’t be earning £55k in a few years, they’ll be on the dole. Tube is already at the point where it could be fully automated and it’s only because of passenger reluctance that it isn’t. Won’t take many more strikes before the public decide they’d rather have full automation than continue to be held to ransom.
What are you talking about, the old Victoria line stock has been automated since 1972, even the 67 stock was fully automated, if you ever travel on the vic line look at head wall, if you see it is a white light the driver is in auto mode… northern line also was automated, in 1997 , I know factually as I used to work as a station supervisor for LUL in early 2000 before moving on.
keep funding McCluskeys champagne socialist lifestyle, you mugs.
Janos:
What part of ‘closed shop’ do some of you not get?There is a reason why you are not train drivers for TFL, or Ford Car transporter drivers or driving petrol tankers for top rates of pay, and that is because until very recently unless you were family or a union crony or a bone idle two faced shop steward you had no chance of getting in there.
You back their fight to retain their exalted working conditions even at the expense of your own jobs.
If the Union had any backbone it would be fighting the low wage long hours culture of the industry, but that does not fit in with their political view. They are the masters, you are the proletariat mugs.
We do need a union…we need an honest one.
Stop talking BS, when I joined London Underground in 1997, I had no family members in the job at all… I applied got an interview and got the job… only thing about London Underground, is you can’t be externally recruited as a driver, a lot has changed since I left but that’s still a rule the RMT were the biggest waste of space ASLEF were good as well as TSSA.
TFL, well, lul were part privatised anyway, the Public private partnership, there were 3 companies doing repairs and upgraded , the JNP, BCV and the MHD lines I can’t recall the full breakdown but it was like that when worked there 20 years ago
Franglais:
Darkside:
British workers are among the worst idlers in the world, we work among the lowest hours, we retire early and our productivity is poor.Productivity is not just a measure of how one works. A single worker pushing a couple of buttons on an automated production line is much more productive than a lumberjack sweating away with an axe.
Productivity is low in the UK partly because companies don’t invest enough in plant and technology.
Unfortunately bosses (and politicians) usually only view productivity as what the result is, not the work put in to get there.
robroy:
Darkside:
British workers are among the worst idlers in the world, we work among the lowest hours, we retire early and our productivity is poor.We work the lowest hours?
A working week in excess of 70 hours could hardly be described as low.
Not my words, the words of a few Tory MPs in the cabinet in recent years. What a mindset to have let alone say out loud. This was why the UK has an opt out on the WTD limit of 48 hour working week.
Monkey241:
As for my company being immune to it… its a market leader possibly about to lose the contract due to ineptitude, not lads pushing for better terms.
In my experience a contented workforce does the job better…Sent from my SM-G981B using Tapatalk
Yes to both, the second point applies to some but sadly not all.
Sometimes bods come on and can’t believe how good the job is compared to the crap they just left, 6 months later some of them have forgotten what they came from, the blokes who had previous real graft jobs don’t forget, it’s the wheel attendants who have short memories.
Good jobs have to be protected, that means giving some quality work for the money you get, going above and beyond when needed.
i used to be a union man, even did my bit on workplace commitee, until the day we needed them, long story but keep it short. we were approx 70 of us pushed to a change of terms and conditions (contract) which included major changes, we asked the area main players for unison to assist, there answer was a 50 quid bonus if we signed… we even got them to a meeting where they turned up stinking of booze and main guys jacket went back on within minutes as he wasnt interested at all… in the end three of us took it till the last day of a 12 months notice, which in the end we won a very large payout. the union were a complete waste of time sold guys down the river, the local rep is now a senior manager at same place… and as this was about ten years ago the new changes they implemented didnt work in the end and they are now more or less on the same original shifts, same terms and conditions but less pay today then we were when i left… would never ever trust another union…
Mick Bracewell:
Monkey241:
Transport was always public sector?Really?
See, the issue here is I was alive then…and I’m in the industry now.
Perhaps we could stick with facts and not your ‘perception’?
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I was talking in general terms about unions and the industry(ies) in the 70s, not specifically transport.
Unions have no place in the road transport sector. It’s a case of turkey’s voting for Christmas when the likes of Wincanton and Stobart are constantly circling overhead waiting to make their move but sadly most drivers are too shortsighted to see this until it’s too late.
That outlook seems to be advocating a race to the bottom.
Give me crap conditions and I’ll walk.
Simple as that
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Monkey241:
Mick Bracewell:
Monkey241:
Transport was always public sector?Really?
See, the issue here is I was alive then…and I’m in the industry now.
Perhaps we could stick with facts and not your ‘perception’?
Sent from my SM-G981B using Tapatalk
I was talking in general terms about unions and the industry(ies) in the 70s, not specifically transport.
Unions have no place in the road transport sector. It’s a case of turkey’s voting for Christmas when the likes of Wincanton and Stobart are constantly circling overhead waiting to make their move but sadly most drivers are too shortsighted to see this until it’s too late.
That outlook seems to be advocating a race to the bottom.
Give me crap conditions and I’ll walk.
Simple as thatSent from my SM-G981B using Tapatalk
I’m not advocating anything. They are simply the facts. Haulage contracts get awarded on price, nothing more. The customers don’t care that you’ve got to work 70 hours a week. Get a union in to squeeze an extra quid an hour out of the boss and your operating costs suddenly increase significantly. Either one of two things happen : 1. company can no longer make a profit on that contract so either doesn’t tender when the contract comes up for renewal or they do tender but they’re too expensive. 2. as above, but tells the customer that the price is going up. Customer scoffs and says no ta and picks up the phone to Wincanton who say “no problem sir, when would you like us to start?”.
That’s the bare bones picture of how the road transport industry works for all companies with haulage, transport or logistics in their name. All those unionised drivers congratulating themselves and giving their shop steward a big slap on the back, well, I say enjoy it while it lasts because while you’re celebrating, behind the scenes the bean-counters will be working overtime at finding ways to make cuts to counter the sudden increase in expenditure/reduction in profits and it won’t be the drivers who win in the long run.
Mick Bracewell:
All those unionised drivers congratulating themselves and giving their shop steward a big slap on the back, well, I say enjoy it while it lasts.
I can only speak as I find Mick, but with two notable exceptions (my own short lived company and one cowboy recovery company) I have, exclusively for the last 30 odd years worked at places with a strong union presence and can categorically state that my T’s & C’s and also wages were far superior to any other company in the area where I worked. I fully appreciate that my personal experience may differ from others (and apparently yours) but it is what it is.
the maoster:
Mick Bracewell:
All those unionised drivers congratulating themselves and giving their shop steward a big slap on the back, well, I say enjoy it while it lasts.I can only speak as I find Mick, but with two notable exceptions (my own short lived company and one cowboy recovery company) I have, exclusively for the last 30 odd years worked at places with a strong union presence and can categorically state that my T’s & C’s and also wages were far superior to any other company in the area where I worked. I fully appreciate that my personal experience may differ from others (and apparently yours) but it is what it is.
Assuming you’re in general haulage I’d say you’ve been exceptionally lucky. Again, I refer you to Stobart Doncaster, Suttons, petro cos and others to see how it usually pans out when the drivers start making noise.
No, not general haulage per se, I got out of that in the early 90’s, but what I have been is picky. I won’t (generally) work for race to the bottom types and I always pick unionised companies.
DHL, Wincanton, Stobarts all have union representation for their drivers, as do most of the supermarkets.
Thatchers legacy was to make it easier for companies to get around Union problems.
The issue of low wages had always dogged the industry, in ye days of olde, it was common especially on general to work six days every week, whether you wanted to or not.
The good jobs have slowly disappeared to the “logistics “ companies as they stick their fingers in to more sectors.
Wages will not increase if we as consumers, constantly demand ever cheaper goods. Primark, Aldi, B&M etc. Unfortunately as wages rise so will the cost of the goods we buy.
discoman:
Janos:
What part of ‘closed shop’ do some of you not get?There is a reason why you are not train drivers for TFL, or Ford Car transporter drivers or driving petrol tankers for top rates of pay, and that is because until very recently unless you were family or a union crony or a bone idle two faced shop steward you had no chance of getting in there.
You back their fight to retain their exalted working conditions even at the expense of your own jobs.
If the Union had any backbone it would be fighting the low wage long hours culture of the industry, but that does not fit in with their political view. They are the masters, you are the proletariat mugs.
We do need a union…we need an honest one.Stop talking BS, when I joined London Underground in 1997, I had no family members in the job at all… I applied got an interview and got the job… only thing about London Underground, is you can’t be externally recruited as a driver, a lot has changed since I left but that’s still a rule the RMT were the biggest waste of space ASLEF were good as well as TSSA.
TFL, well, lul were part privatised anyway, the Public private partnership, there were 3 companies doing repairs and upgraded , the JNP, BCV and the MHD lines I can’t recall the full breakdown but it was like that when worked there 20 years ago
BS? When the plum drivers jobs are not advertised so the general public can’t apply?
Who wouldn’t if they could?
Getting paid a middle managers wage with all the pension benefits etc for driving what is essentially a fairground ride.
You can’t see what is wrong even when its right in front of you. Good jobs and working conditions should not be the preserve of the few and their cronies…especially when the hypocritical gits get on their high socialist horses shouting the odds.
Franglais:
Darkside:
British workers are among the worst idlers in the world, we work among the lowest hours, we retire early and our productivity is poor.Productivity is not just a measure of how one works. A single worker pushing a couple of buttons on an automated production line is much more productive than a lumberjack sweating away with an axe.
Productivity is low in the UK partly because companies don’t invest enough in plant and technology.
Lets talk about productivity within our industry eh?
You can invest all you like in a truck but it will earn nothing if its stuck in an RDC all day, as they basically work to rule.
What about Felixstowe docks. The unionised workforce there just do what they want. Trucks ignored by the crane drivers. All the money invested in software and cranes is useless in the hands of an over entitled inbred.
16 lifts an hour…trucks stuck in the terminal…trucks stuck outside too. You couldn’t make it up. The impact on hauliers and the owners of the goods is massive.
This morning at a railfreight depot they took over an hour for a shift change…you could not see the end of the queue of trucks to get in. All because of that entrenched union attitude, which means I am alright…and ■■■■■■■■ to the rest of you.
I could list steel works, paper mills etc etc all with their queues of trucks as the workforce just goes through the motions.
Meanwhile in our industry we can’t recruit drivers because the thought of Dickensian 15hr days horrify them, and those that do them suffer the social and health consequences.
Plenty of Non Unionised places that are also slow tips. Usually it’s not because of a lazy workforce but how a regime is set in place by management.
How do you know that the crane driver is tossing it off? Maybe his regime has him filling out paperwork in between lifts.
Where I work we have a stupid new manager who has declared that we can no longer load ourselves by hiab and instead must wait for the forklift to become available. So what used to take 30 mins can now take an hour. In the mean time trucks are backing up to the gate because of this mis-management.
msgyorkie:
Plenty of Non Unionised places that are also slow tips. Usually it’s not because of a lazy workforce but how a regime is set in place by management.
How do you know that the crane driver is tossing it off? Maybe his regime has him filling out paperwork in between lifts.
Where I work we have a stupid new manager who has declared that we can no longer load ourselves by hiab and instead must wait for the forklift to become available. So what used to take 30 mins can now take an hour. In the mean time trucks are backing up to the gate because of this mis-management.
Seriously? Read the trade press re Felixstowe, and do some container work, then come back and comment.
Mick Bracewell:
Monkey241:
Mick Bracewell:
Monkey241:
Transport was always public sector?Really?
See, the issue here is I was alive then…and I’m in the industry now.
Perhaps we could stick with facts and not your ‘perception’?
Sent from my SM-G981B using Tapatalk
I was talking in general terms about unions and the industry(ies) in the 70s, not specifically transport.
Unions have no place in the road transport sector. It’s a case of turkey’s voting for Christmas when the likes of Wincanton and Stobart are constantly circling overhead waiting to make their move but sadly most drivers are too shortsighted to see this until it’s too late.
That outlook seems to be advocating a race to the bottom.
Give me crap conditions and I’ll walk.
Simple as thatSent from my SM-G981B using Tapatalk
I’m not advocating anything. They are simply the facts. Haulage contracts get awarded on price, nothing more. The customers don’t care that you’ve got to work 70 hours a week. Get a union in to squeeze an extra quid an hour out of the boss and your operating costs suddenly increase significantly. Either one of two things happen : 1. company can no longer make a profit on that contract so either doesn’t tender when the contract comes up for renewal or they do tender but they’re too expensive. 2. as above, but tells the customer that the price is going up. Customer scoffs and says no ta and picks up the phone to Wincanton who say “no problem sir, when would you like us to start?”.
That’s the bare bones picture of how the road transport industry works for all companies with haulage, transport or logistics in their name. All those unionised drivers congratulating themselves and giving their shop steward a big slap on the back, well, I say enjoy it while it lasts because while you’re celebrating, behind the scenes the bean-counters will be working overtime at finding ways to make cuts to counter the sudden increase in expenditure/reduction in profits and it won’t be the drivers who win in the long run.
On about the tenth year of this contract…despite Union squeezing…
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