Juddian:
Meanwhile back in the real world, those in decent unionised jobs carry on doing their part as card carrying subs-paying members, and enjoy the benefits they helped attain.
If you can’t be arsed with unions that’s fine too, your choice at the end of the day, but it’s kinda weird complaining the union isn’t fighting low pay in the industry if no one wants to join the union in the first place, are they supposed to don a super hero costume and wade in like some Marvel comic righter of wrongs.
As said above, the union is the members and the local officials who help and advise when needed.
I’m curious to know who this saintly union is that you are always singing the praises about? It isn’t URTU that’s for sure. Also I seem to recall in previous posts that you’d retired from driving.
Juddian:
Meanwhile back in the real world, those in decent unionised jobs carry on doing their part as card carrying subs-paying members, and enjoy the benefits they helped attain.
If you can’t be arsed with unions that’s fine too, your choice at the end of the day, but it’s kinda weird complaining the union isn’t fighting low pay in the industry if no one wants to join the union in the first place, are they supposed to don a super hero costume and wade in like some Marvel comic righter of wrongs.
As said above, the union is the members and the local officials who help and advise when needed.
I’m curious to know who this saintly union is that you are always singing the praises about? It isn’t URTU that’s for sure. Also I seem to recall in previous posts that you’d retired from driving.
Was in the URTU when i first started driving but hardly organised there, it was really just to be able to deliver and collect at various docks where a union card might be needed, but soon as i got off general and on a proper job it was T&G and it has been all the way through, obviously now Unite, i’ll stay with them till i finally give the game up…and no, you must have me confused with someone else, thinking about retiring but i still actually enjoy my work (so far its still old school enough) and it’s an easy enough i could do it well into me dotage if i want to.
Dunno about saintly, Unite never done me any harm, been on specialised work in proper unionised places for many years with very good terms, there were better places such as at Ford, but A i didn’t want to live either near Dagenham or Halewood, and B such jobs really were and still are dead mans shoes places, if every bugger could get a start there they soon wouldn’t be DMS jobs with the best terms in the industry.
See, i’m not envious of the Ford lads like some, bloody good luck to them (i voted to support if necessary the Ansa lads to be taken on full time by Ford when i was still on the transporters, too involved a story to go into here), someone has to be the lucky sods at the top of the tree, isn’t it better to support them and try to better your own position by trying to either get a job at the better paying outfits or bring your own job up to scratch by collective bargaining via a decent union, or is it better to do as some here would prefer, to bring every bugger down to poverty level and outlaw the unions so everyone is living hand to mouth.
Monkey241:
In some ways yes.
Yet his opinions don’t differ that greatly from my own
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It’s not “some” ways, it’s most ways. They are not comparable. Compare the industry “ownership” in the 70s to the 2020s. Back then most of it was state owned and striking every week was the done thing as it was only the public’s money so who cares? Today it’s all private sector where profits for themselves and their shareholders are their only consideration. All you’re doing by striking or demanding more money is delaying the inevitable, which is either a take-over by a competitor where you’ll end up on worse terms than you started with, or you’ll be out of work when your company loses the contract because they’re 10% more expensive than XYZ Logistics who also tendered as their operating costs are lower due to not being unionised.
Again, see Stobart, Suttons and no doubt others. Don’t think your company is different and immune to it because they aren’t. Money talks.
Wheel Nut:
If the unions were any good. Hoyer would not be in Stanlow
Monkey241:
Hmm…I don’t work for TFL etc cos I never applied.
Not sure TFL is that different to rail companies…I have 2 mates driving for 2 different companies after full careers in the military - not that closed a shop.
Having entered transport a year ago the issue isn’t unions not fighting long hours and low pay-its drivers themselves
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There are many reasons why the low wage - long hours culture is prevalent in road transport. The “Drivers being their own worst enemy” argument is overused and inaccurate.
Haulier running goods up and down the country for peanuts is what is really suppressing wages. It is a sad reality that running a hire and reward haulage operation is a venture of extremely high, variable and often unexpected overheads with very small margins of profit. Add vulturistic middle men, shareholder driven corporations, cut throat large hauliers and cheaper European competitors into that mix and its easy to see why nothing is likely to change.
It really is no coincidence that the best paying jobs with the best working conditions in this game are “own account” transport operations and/or ones that require skilled, competent and reliable drivers. These jobs do exist and are quite rightly kept quiet. Those who know, know. It is probably also not a coincidence that many of these jobs are unionised!
As for my company being immune to it… its a market leader possibly about to lose the contract due to ineptitude, not lads pushing for better terms.
In my experience a contented workforce does the job better…
Monkey241:
Hmm…I don’t work for TFL etc cos I never applied.
Not sure TFL is that different to rail companies…I have 2 mates driving for 2 different companies after full careers in the military - not that closed a shop.
Having entered transport a year ago the issue isn’t unions not fighting long hours and low pay-its drivers themselves
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There are many reasons why the low wage - long hours culture is prevalent in road transport. The “Drivers being their own worst enemy” argument is overused and inaccurate.
Haulier running goods up and down the country for peanuts is what is really suppressing wages. It is a sad reality that running a hire and reward haulage operation is a venture of extremely high, variable and often unexpected overheads with very small margins of profit. Add vulturistic middle men, shareholder driven corporations, cut throat large hauliers and cheaper European competitors into that mix and its easy to see why nothing is likely to change.
It really is no coincidence that the best paying jobs with the best working conditions in this game are “own account” transport operations and/or ones that require skilled, competent and reliable drivers. These jobs do exist and are quite rightly kept quiet. Those who know, know. It is probably also not a coincidence that many of these jobs are unionised!
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An overused argument?
I can show you several lads at my place that trot out the 9 to 5 line
Monkey241:
Hmm…I don’t work for TFL etc cos I never applied.
Not sure TFL is that different to rail companies…I have 2 mates driving for 2 different companies after full careers in the military - not that closed a shop.
Having entered transport a year ago the issue isn’t unions not fighting long hours and low pay-its drivers themselves
Sent from my SM-G981B using Tapatalk
There are many reasons why the low wage - long hours culture is prevalent in road transport. The “Drivers being their own worst enemy” argument is overused and inaccurate.
Haulier running goods up and down the country for peanuts is what is really suppressing wages. It is a sad reality that running a hire and reward haulage operation is a venture of extremely high, variable and often unexpected overheads with very small margins of profit. Add vulturistic middle men, shareholder driven corporations, cut throat large hauliers and cheaper European competitors into that mix and its easy to see why nothing is likely to change.
It really is no coincidence that the best paying jobs with the best working conditions in this game are “own account” transport operations and/or ones that require skilled, competent and reliable drivers. These jobs do exist and are quite rightly kept quiet. Those who know, know. It is probably also not a coincidence that many of these jobs are unionised!
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An overused argument?
I can show you several lads at my place that trot out the 9 to 5 line
talknonsense:
I can show you several lads at my place that trot out the 9 to 5 line
Sorry, what do you mean??
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Drivers who because of low pay have to work long hours and activally seek the 15 hour shifts just to make there money up. If you dont want to join the long hours culture you are then quoted as being in the wrong industry.
I myself have also witnesed this phenomenon after declaring that 50 hours a week MAX is what I aim for (prefably less) only for the brain dead amongst us declare me a lazy basard for refusing to join in the 15 hour game and instead prefering to get parked up and a decent time and enjoy the downtime.
talknonsense:
I can show you several lads at my place that trot out the 9 to 5 line
Sorry, what do you mean??
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Drivers who because of low pay have to work long hours and activally seek the 15 hour shifts just to make there money up. If you dont want to join the long hours culture you are then quoted as being in the wrong industry.
I myself have also witnesed this phenomenon after declaring that 50 hours a week MAX is what I aim for (prefably less) only for the brain dead amongst us declare me a lazy basard for refusing to join in the 15 hour game and instead prefering to get parked up and a decent time and enjoy the downtime.
That is kind of the point I made. The 15 hour chasers are doing so for financial reasons. If they have lots of outgoings and they’re on poor pay they are left with little other option? The mob they work for probably also runs around doing work for peanuts. Apple never falls far from the tree does it.
I presume you park up at a reasonable time because you can afford to? And good for you, you’ll never catch me knocking anyone for that.
I concede that for every rule there is an exception. Of course there are some plankton that will work themselves to death for £8.50 an hour due to stupidity and nothing else.
talknonsense:
I can show you several lads at my place that trot out the 9 to 5 line
Sorry, what do you mean??
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Drivers who because of low pay have to work long hours and activally seek the 15 hour shifts just to make there money up. If you dont want to join the long hours culture you are then quoted as being in the wrong industry.
I myself have also witnesed this phenomenon after declaring that 50 hours a week MAX is what I aim for (prefably less) only for the brain dead amongst us declare me a lazy basard for refusing to join in the 15 hour game and instead prefering to get parked up and a decent time and enjoy the downtime.
Drivers would still be wanting to do 15 hours and 4 nights out even if they were on £25 per hour. Nothing would change. They love living the dream in their big rig, playing with their dream-catcher and twiddling their frilly curtain tassels. They’d revel in bragging to anyone who’d listen about how they’re on £2k per week. The few that want an 8 hour day for a good wage and then go home to enjoy their life/hobbies in their downtime are very very much a minority.
See, the issue here is I was alive then…and I’m in the industry now.
Perhaps we could stick with facts and not your ‘perception’?
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I was talking in general terms about unions and the industry(ies) in the 70s, not specifically transport.
Unions have no place in the road transport sector. It’s a case of turkey’s voting for Christmas when the likes of Wincanton and Stobart are constantly circling overhead waiting to make their move but sadly most drivers are too shortsighted to see this until it’s too late.
See, the issue here is I was alive then…and I’m in the industry now.
Perhaps we could stick with facts and not your ‘perception’?
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I was talking in general terms about unions and the industry(ies) in the 70s, not specifically transport.
Unions have no place in the road transport sector. It’s a case of turkey’s voting for Christmas when the likes of Wincanton and Stobart are constantly circling overhead waiting to make their move but sadly most drivers are too shortsighted to see this until it’s too late.
In the 70’s the majority of lorry workers were in the union. There were no cheap rate companies circling to pick up contracts because they paid under the union rate. Check out the laws regarding unions introduced by Thatcher.
Monkey241:
Having entered transport a year ago the issue isn’t unions not fighting long hours and low pay-its drivers themselves
Bang on. Peel away the thin veneer and the truth is that all drivers only care about themselves, and that includes the shop stewards.
I don’t think that is just drivers, that is the uk today. We are a divided lot, and governments like it that way, United we would not be so easy to manipulate.
See, the issue here is I was alive then…and I’m in the industry now.
Perhaps we could stick with facts and not your ‘perception’?
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I was talking in general terms about unions and the industry(ies) in the 70s, not specifically transport.
Unions have no place in the road transport sector. It’s a case of turkey’s voting for Christmas when the likes of Wincanton and Stobart are constantly circling overhead waiting to make their move but sadly most drivers are too shortsighted to see this until it’s too late.
Unions have a place in every sector, otherwise employers do (and are doing) exactly wtf they want with you, no matter how unjust…zero hour contracts etc.
I take your point, but it’s not so much short sightedness amongst the ones trying to get a FAIR deal, it’s the rest who have not got the balls for a stand off, not to get some ridiculous pay rise, but just for a bit of fairness.
The old chestnut of ‘‘If we ALL stood together’’ applies, (yeh right. ) but when Stobarts come in to take the job, the next group of drivers they employ are willing to work for the pittance the last lot refused to…and so it goes on.
So don’t knock the ones wanting a fair deal, but who are failing because of lack of back up and support, knock the ones who are perpetuating the whole crap situation of 10quid an hour right through, by their apathy and lack of fight.
Nobody wants to go back to the out of hand Union dominated 70s, including and especially me, I was among all that crap as a boy working, but employers are treating their staff as they did in the 30s in some cases, which sparked off the Trade Union movement in the first place.
Where does it stop? Rates cut to the point of wage cuts to enable them to run ?
Hours extended even more to make up?
This whole cluster ■■■■ of general haulage needs sorted, it’ll never be any good as long as people have the attitudes of one or two on here,due mainly to successful state anti Union proaganda so we’ll just carry on bending over and sucking it all up until people open their ■■■■ eyes.
) but when Stobarts come in to take the job, the next group of drivers they employ are willing to work for the pittance the last lot refused to…and so it goes on.