bazza123:
Also, apropos of nothing,, if you take (not mug) something of someone’s, excluding their car, and promise to return it within a specific timeframe, there is nothing the police can do
.
I can “borrow” your lawnmower, and assuming I dont damage it, promise to return it in say two days, and there is nothing you can do about it!
Scary eh
What law is that? Just so I know as my next door neighbour has a nice hedge trimmer I could be using…
bazza123:
Trespass is a civil offence, so assuming you aren’t breaching the peace, or damaging anything, the police can’t do anything really.That said, it’s up to the landowner who he wants on his land. By the time Dixon turns up you’ll be good to go.
Also, apropos of nothing,
I can “borrow” your lawnmower, and assuming I dont damage it, promise to return it in say two days, and there is nothing you can do about it!
Scary eh
i suppose you can quote the statue law for that?
otherwise you are welcome to come and interfere with my property. at your own risk.
Theft Act 1968.
Section1:
"1 Basic definition of theft.
(1)A person is guilty of theft if he dishonestly appropriates property belonging to another with the intention of permanently depriving the other of it; and “thief” and “steal” shall be construed accordingly."
So I must have the intention of permanently depriving you of the lawnmower, for instance by selling it. If I say, “I’m going to return this to you tomorrow”, I’m in the clear.
It would be up to the prosecution to prove I wished to permanently deprive you of it.
Motor vehicles are dealt with specifically.
The Act isn’t very long and is interesting reading.
R v Ghosh (BAILII: [1982] EWCA Crim 2 ) [1982]
Section 6 deals with the element of the ‘intention to permanently deprive.’ The courts have determined that this means that this is an intention to take forever or to take for a time, which in effect means an outright taking, even though the defendant may have intended to return the property. In R v Lloyd (1985) the defendants had been involved in the temporary borrowing of films from a cinema to enable the accomplices to make unauthorised copies of the films for commercial gain. The defendants were lucky in escaping conviction when the Court of Appeal ruled that the ‘borrowings’ had not affected the value of the films so as to amount to an outright taking because all the ‘goodness’ of the property had not been taken out of it.
So basically, if you devalue the item (by damaging it say), or risk it’s return by pawning it, gambling on it etc etc, you have committed an offence.
If you don’t, and simply return the same item in its original form, your ok.
Strange eh?
To back this up:
"Where someone abandons property belonging to another he may be deemed to intend to permanently deprive that other of it, if the circumstances are such that there is little likelihood of the owner ever having the property returned to him. " (lawteacher.net/criminal-law/ … -cases.php)
Therefore, if I intend to return the item soon, un damaged, of the same value, I’m ok.
Don’t quote me, I’m no lawyer though
bazza123:
Theft Act 1968.Section1:
"1 Basic definition of theft.
(1)A person is guilty of theft if he dishonestly appropriates property belonging to another with the intention of permanently depriving the other of it; and “thief” and “steal” shall be construed accordingly."
So I must have the intention of permanently depriving you of the lawnmower, for instance by selling it. If I say, “I’m going to return this to you tomorrow”, I’m in the clear.
It would be up to the prosecution to prove I wished to permanently deprive you of it.
Motor vehicles are dealt with specifically.
The Act isn’t very long and is interesting reading.
R v Ghosh (BAILII: [1982] EWCA Crim 2 ) [1982]
Section 6 deals with the element of the ‘intention to permanently deprive.’ The courts have determined that this means that this is an intention to take forever or to take for a time, which in effect means an outright taking, even though the defendant may have intended to return the property. In R v Lloyd (1985) the defendants had been involved in the temporary borrowing of films from a cinema to enable the accomplices to make unauthorised copies of the films for commercial gain. The defendants were lucky in escaping conviction when the Court of Appeal ruled that the ‘borrowings’ had not affected the value of the films so as to amount to an outright taking because all the ‘goodness’ of the property had not been taken out of it.
So basically, if you devalue the item (by damaging it say), or risk it’s return by pawning it, gambling on it etc etc, you have committed an offence.
If you don’t, and simply return the same item in its original form, your ok.
Strange eh?
Don’t quite me, I’m no lawyer though
so,you (or me), can take whatever we, (or you), want, from anybody, aslong as we (or you) intend to give it back?
Good luck with that when I find you trying to take my property…
I’m not saying it’s good, but that’s the law 
You couldn’t take a vehicle, or perhaps food or something that devalues over time, like batteries etc, but otherwise, yes.
By ruining the item (by letting food go mouldy for instance) you are permanently depriving the proper owner of it.
Otherwise, there is really nothing that can be done to help you legally.
leeyarnold:
Police said he could arrange to have me towed even if I was in the truck
Pretty sure plod is wrong here. I didnt think recovery aren’t allowed to remove a vehicle with people inside.
m1cks:
leeyarnold:
Police said he could arrange to have me towed even if I was in the truckPretty sure plod is wrong here. I didnt think recovery aren’t allowed to remove a vehicle with people inside.
Nope, definitely not allowed to tow a vehicle with a person inside, can you imagine if something went wrong? 
That’s why protesters chain themselves to diggers and things, can’t be moved until the procedure for moving the protester has been followed, court order, bailiffs etc, then as they’re removed another goes in their place and it all starts again.
Lol definitely not theft as I’m not pertinently removing goods. I’ve learned my lesson. A5 watling street will be avoided in future
Even if you weren’t in the truck he couldn’t have it towed. This is a civil matter, and it is about you not your vehicle. A truck can’t trespass, nor can it commit a breach of the peace. Police can have vehicles removed from the highway for various reasons, and they can seize them as evidence, but they can’t remove them from private property without a court order.
I’m back home from work, forgot to come and give you an alarm call but I see you are up anyway. 
My route to work took me past one of the popular parking places at about 06:00 but didn’t see your truck.
sayersy:
Even if you weren’t in the truck he couldn’t have it towed. This is a civil matter, and it is about you not your vehicle. A truck can’t trespass, nor can it commit a breach of the peace. Police can have vehicles removed from the highway for various reasons, and they can seize them as evidence, but they can’t remove them from private property without a court order.
YES they can under
Trespass with a Vehicle (Offences) Bill
publications.parliament.uk/p … 006135.pdf
section 2 an the penalty’s are in section 3
62H Penalties and proceedings in court
(1) A person guilty of an offence under this Act shall be liable on summary
conviction to–
(a) a fine not exceeding level 4 on the standard scale,
(b) a term of imprisonment not exceeding one month,or
(c) both.
(2) In any proceedings for an offence under this Act it shall be presumed
until the contrary is shown that consent under this section was not
given.
(3) Notwithstanding any statutory provision or rule of law to the contrary,
the jurisdiction of a magistrates’ court shall not, in summary
proceedings in relation to an offence under this Act, be ousted by
reason solely of a question of title to land being brought into issue.
(4) Where in summary proceedings in relation to an offence under this Act
a question of title to land is brought into issue, the decision of a
magistrates’ court in the proceedings or on the question shall not
operate as an estoppel in, or a bar to, proceedings in any court in
relation to the land.”.
big boots:
if things had’nt changed and you got clamped the police would’nt of got involved saying it was a civil matter but they bloody will now though
Who’s going to legally clamp him, Didn’t the law change 2012.
A contract is a contract, and they do have a duty of care if they cancel the contract.
For example if you go on holiday and turn up at the hotel and there is no room the hotel has to provide you with a room of equal value or the money for a room in another hotel (which may be well over the normal cost of the room), which is why hotels always have a few room spare (as should this truck stop).
leeyarnold:
Police said he could arrange to have me towed even if I was in the truck
Really ! I felt sure they would’ve chalked around your wheels and told parking attendant not to disturb you as you were on a legally required daily rest period 
Because I’ve been assured that’s what they do at RDC’s, when you run out off time 
If you had been in the truck whilst under tow, would that be POA or Rest as you would have been on the bed
I would apologize to him for causing a problem and explain drivers hours. I would thank him for calling the Police. When they arrive I would follow their instructions.
sayersy:
Even if you weren’t in the truck he couldn’t have it towed. This is a civil matter, and it is about you not your vehicle. A truck can’t trespass, nor can it commit a breach of the peace. Police can have vehicles removed from the highway for various reasons, and they can seize them as evidence, but they can’t remove them from private property without a court order.
Good to know. Thankyou
Coffeeholic:
I’m back home from work, forgot to come and give you an alarm call but I see you are up anyway.My route to work took me past one of the popular parking places at about 06:00 but didn’t see your truck.
I was on Bilton way
Euro:
I would apologize to him for causing a problem and explain drivers hours. I would thank him for calling the Police. When they arrive I would follow their instructions.
I complied with the police. While the police was there a truck left. The police said I could park there but the bloke said no its reserved
leeyarnold:
sayersy:
Even if you weren’t in the truck he couldn’t have it towed. This is a civil matter, and it is about you not your vehicle. A truck can’t trespass, nor can it commit a breach of the peace. Police can have vehicles removed from the highway for various reasons, and they can seize them as evidence, but they can’t remove them from private property without a court order.Good to know. Thankyou
Actually, not good. Nick2008 proved me wrong above, and if you read the link he posted, you’ll see that trespass with a vehicle is a specific offence, and an officer can remove a vehicle if you refuse to…and charge you for it. Apologies.
leeyarnold:
Coffeeholic:
I’m back home from work, forgot to come and give you an alarm call but I see you are up anyway.My route to work took me past one of the popular parking places at about 06:00 but didn’t see your truck.
I was on Bilton way
I didn’t go past there to work this morning, it was one of the places I thought you might be though.
Has last night’s stand off and drama messed up today much?
