The Future of Trucking in Europe (new questions!)

UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUMS OWNER AND FLEET OPERATORS FORUM (INTERACTIVE)
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This discussion is specifically for owners & operators. If you are also a driver, please contribute here.

Hello all,

I’m about to enter my final year in the Coventry Uni design course, and I wish to focus my degree project on a new kind of truck for the European industry. I’ve received some professional guidance, and now I need to compile a design brief.

To do this, I decided to start here, and would greatly appreciate any help you can offer regarding what sorts of problems you face as fleet operators and owners, how might changing/improving something in trucks help solve that, etc. To help you help me, here are several things I’m looking for:

Aerodynamics - typical issues, how much trailer affects it
Current problems with efficiency and profitability of trucking
Any possible reasons for these problems
Improvements necessary in driver accommodation
E85 fuel: viable for application to this industry?
And of course, anything else you would find useful.

Again, thanks in advance and I hope we can make this an ongoing collaboration. I will probably be posting questions regularly after the project begins this autumn.

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I’d also like to add that many of you may benefit someday from the results of this discussion. It would be greatly appreciated if there is something of value anyone could tell me that pertains to the above issues.

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Since our industry is one run on a shoe-string we have always had problems in justifying any change for the better.
The list is almost endless, we all need multipurpose trucks because our customers want trucks that are bigger & lighter but must be lower & get into smaller spaces. We need platform trucks that can be tippers, tankers, have full overhead & side access but they still need to be able to stack their goods onto the sides of the trailers so that they don’t have to provide any safe packaging.
Today we run trucks that are 13m60 long internally with an internal height of 2m80 running at 4m06 overall height. These trailer now weigh about the same as the 12m trailers of 30 years ago but have about 35% more cube available.
The lower the trailer is overall the less wind resistance there is & if the chassis height is lowered as well there is less turbulence underneath & crosswinds are also less of a risk. The centre of gravity is lower as well so the rollover risk is also less. This applies to every type of vehicle on the road but so few designers take any of this into account, they appear to work on the principle that it was like that when they started work so there is no reson to change it.
The first truck that I bought in 1976 created a scandal at the local Volvo agent in Sheffield. I insisted that the turntable be mounted no higher that the side flitches on the chassis. When it arrived they had built a sub frame that weighed over a hundred kilos more than neccessary, it was 125 mm higher than I had requested & 150 mm closer to the rear axle than I had requested. I refused to accept it so they made the statement that all the tractor units they supplied were delivered to this spec, even though it was nothing like my order spec. They then “proved” their logic, with the turntable placed at 450 mm infront of the axle the tractor could accept 9t500 on the turntable. When I asked what it could accept at 600 mm infront of the axle it jumped up to 10t250 without overloading the drive axle. They modified the tractor & I had a vehicle that could pass under a 13ft bridge with a standard European tilt & by having the trailer close coupled with the pin at 1200 mm my fuel consumption was better than any of my mates running the same vehicles due to better airflow & less drag.
If at all possible it would make sense to place all the air tanks & batteries on a tractor into the chassis space ant totally enclose the fuel tanks & pipework to avoid fuel theft. This could be done with alloy side/under & top skirts, but then again the theft of aluminium is quite high at the moment. If all the governments in Europe stopped taxing fuel at about 75% we could probably have smaller tanks & buy on the open road but obviously since we are stupid enough to be in transport we must be stupid enough to pay their fuel taxes.
Today’s trucks are about as energy efficient as they can get without risking the life of the engine (increasing turbo boost pressures etc.)
The French are doing their best to improve driver accomodation, they want less & less of them to be away from home. They are trying to get the large groups to only run a maximum of 4 hours away from their depot & then swap trailers or even getting the drivers to swap trucks so that after a 9 hour day they are back at the depot again. Gefco use this system to get their goods from Mulhouse to Coventry using three drivers, they change trailers in St Dizier & again in Calais. The trailer takes about 17 hours to legally get from facory to factory, which is just over 1000 kms.
You ask about E 85 fuel, which as far as I am aware is a petrol substitute. We all use Diesel which is more efficient. The only way we can go forward is to use Colza or Corn oil which gives almost zero emissions. I have tried it on my car, it runs quieter, smoother & uses less fuel but it smells a bit like the local Mc Donald’s. It is also illegal according to most law enforcement agencies but Europe says it is quite legal. Obviously we all know that if you are not paying taxes on a fuel the law enforcement agencies will do their best to give you hell totally disrespecting European law. This goes for most countries except Germany & Belgium where they appreciate the clean emissions.
Sorry it took so long but after over 30 years in the industry I have tried to change things where I can but the list is endless. Our progress has been quite staggering but we are always the scapegoats & very seldom praised for our efforts.

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Excellent guidance, jonb, thanks. Those are definitely things I’ll be looking at, and I’m pretty certain your concern about air resistance can and will be addressed.

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just some things that are being done over here in australia.

solid trialing of cng “compressed natural gas” for diesel engined trucks.

bio diesel

we run multiple trailer combinations in our cities one 2 articulated trailers 25m 60 tonne + “only on approved routes” (called b double) up to 9 axles

the other 19 meter 50 tonnes free access . ( called mini b double) 7 axles.
cheers
meggala

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Hello again, I’m back in England now and will be starting design work on the project momentarily. A few more questions…

Is there a good reason trucks are rear-drive? I would think that with front-drive, poor-weather handling would be considerably better, not to mention the worry of overloading the drive axle minimized if not eliminated?

When coupling truck to trailer, what do all the cables control, and can the trailer be coupled closer by moving the turntable forward on the truck and the “pin” forward on the trailer?

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Designer:
Hello again, I’m back in England now and will be starting design work on the project momentarily. A few more questions…

Is there a good reason trucks are rear-drive? I would think that with front-drive, poor-weather handling would be considerably better, not to mention the worry of overloading the drive axle minimized if not eliminated?

I’m taking an educated guess that they’re RWD for traction reasons. If you’ve got a full tanker on the back and you need to pull away on an uphill incline you’ll have a devil of a job to get going because all the weight is sat on the trailer wheels as the liquid runs to the back of the tank. To make it FWD you’d just make the problem even worse.

When coupling truck to trailer, what do all the cables control, and can the trailer be coupled closer by moving the turntable forward on the truck and the “pin” forward on the trailer?

I’m not too clued up on what each line does exactly so would be best leaving that to someone who knows more about them. The trailer can be coupled closer by sliding the “turntable” (aka 5th wheel) forward if the truck is equipped with option (many are fixed and can’t be moved). The pin on the trailers is fixed and can’t be adjusted.

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Can I respectfully suggest that your best angle of approach to this subject might be HGV Training of some sort?
It would be prohibitavely expensive and time consuming, although ultimately rewarding to gain class 1entitlement, but there are numerous “have a go” days advertised. This would give you an insight of how a truck handles, loaded/ unloaded and what it is like to actuallly drive.
FWD trucks in my opinion would be akin to choclate teapots, but AWD might be worth considering.

Rob K:
[The pin on the trailers is fixed and can’t be adjusted.

Not quite true Rob, the pin usually has two positions, one short and one long.
It just can’t be adjusted by the driver.

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we had a AWD MAN F90 artic unit, FROM THE FACTORY
unfortunatly this was only a project vehicle,and was
returned to the factory,although it performende quite well.

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Designer:
When coupling truck to trailer, what do all the cables control

The most common of modern tractor-trailer combinations have four connectors between tractor and trailer. Some have five.

Truckers call these “suzies” or “susies” from “Suspended” and they are typically pre-coiled like a telephone handset cord.

The two major ones are air lines. Truck and trailer brakes are controlled by compressed air provided by a compressor driven from the main truck engine and stored in reservoirs on the tractor unit and trailer.

The first airline is colour coded red, or the connectors usually have some red marking. This is the emergency and parking brake and so arranged in a fail-safe configuration. The parking brake actuators contain powerful springs that fully apply the brakes in the absence of air pressure. Once the tractor unit engine is running and air pressure is built up in the reservoirs, releasing the handbrake lever (valve) in the cab provides a positive air pressure in the red line that acts on diaphragms in the parking actuators that overcomes the spring pressure and releases the parking brake. Typically, the tractor unit has these types of actuator on the driven axle(s) also.

The red line also provides air pressure to the trailer reservoir that provides isolation from the tractor reservoirs. This is also is used to control the trailer air suspension, especially to allow drivers and warehouse staff to alter the trailer height for loading and unloading.

In the event of total air failure, or for example, if the tractor and trailer became detached and the air lines ruptured, the spring-driven brakes are applied. When the parking brake is applied, the air in the “red” system is effectively dumped. This is why you here a large hiss of air when a truck handbrake is applied.

The second airline is coloured yellow, or its connectors are similarly marked. This is known as the service (foot pedal) brake. The foot pedal in the cab is in fact operating a progressive air valve that applies increasingly progressive air pressure in the yellow line. This line is connected to the service brake actuators on the trailer (and all axles on the tractor unit).

Some units have, in addition to the parking and emergency brake a secondary braking system whereby the progressive air pressure in the “yellow”, service line can be controlled by movement of the handbrake lever in the cab over a limited range of its travel. Such that in the event of a failing foot brake valve or system, the brakes can be progressively applied by hand.

So that’s two out of four or five connectors. Some trailer-tractors have a third, blue air line known as “Auxiliary”, though I am unclear how this works. If a trailer has three air lines and the tractor only two, we are advised to leave the blue line disconnected.

The next connector (often green) is the electrical 7-way connection (similar to a car trailer or caravan connection) for the trailer lights: left and right tail lights, left and right indicators, stop lights and rear fog lights plus a chassis ground.

The final connector (optional) is also electrical, usually black and provides an electrical connection the trailer anti-lock braking system (ABS).

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Neil, an excellent explanation there, thanks. I was never particularly clued up on how the braking systems worked on an artic, but now I know!

One question though - you’ve only listed one electrical connection (aside from the ABS lead), why is that? What does the “other” electrical suzi do? :confused:

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Rob K:
Neil, an excellent explanation there, thanks. I was never particularly clued up on how the braking systems worked on an artic, but now I know!

One question though - you’ve only listed one electrical connection (aside from the ABS lead), why is that? What does the “other” electrical suzi do? :confused:

You’re Black one is for your main electrics lights brakes indicators, your green one is for your ancillaries Fog lights (although they can be wired through the black one also) Reversing lights, any specialist switching you may require, rearsteer switches etc.

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The pin on the trailers is fixed and can’t be adjusted.

It can :slight_smile: :slight_smile: :slight_smile:

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AS ONE PERSON POSTED ALL READY THE
pin is built to be removed,for two reasons
one repositioning of the pin,secondly when
the PIN is no longer functional due to the wear
and tear,and is too loose in the coupling…

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brit pete:
AS ONE PERSON POSTED ALL READY THE
pin is built to be removed,for two reasons
one repositioning of the pin,secondly when
the PIN is no longer functional due to the wear
and tear,and is too loose in the coupling…

I stand corrected then. I’ve pulled a big variety of trailers in my time and I’ve never seen one which has had a self-adjustable pin (which is what I believe the poster was referring to). I’ve used a number of trailers that have needed a pin collar to make the pin the correct width to fit the fifth wheel (mainly on STGO units) but that’s about all.

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i might be wrong as an engineer but as far as i know there are only two sizes of trailer king pin…one for normal operation and a larger one for low loader heavy haulage type…from a safety point of view sleeving a “small pin” will not allow it to pull heavier weights safely.

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The pin is removeable and also not everyone uses
slideing couplings so you may find two points
where the pin can be set for say a 3.80 wheelbase
and 3.60mwheelbase, also as i said when the
pin is worn it must be renewed,and this is done
by removeing the old one and refitting a new pin,

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too right there removable i wont dispute that after changing many a greasy pin and sheared bolts…should have been a driver and gone for easy life he says ducking…

wear limits on pin as far as ministry concerned is bloody scary too its half inch movement,compared to some of the petty things you get a “9” for for such a safety related item its outrageous.

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Rob:
One question though - you’ve only listed one electrical connection (aside from the ABS lead), why is that? What does the “other” electrical suzi do?

Sorry Rob, I fell off my perch before I completed the post :blush: and got my colours wrong (thanks Renaultman)

You have mentioned in other posts how many rigs you see with ABS/EBS sockets fitted, but the cable not connected. Have a look HERE. Not for the feint-hearted though :open_mouth:

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The brain died on the EBS on my trailer today, luckily it’s under warranty. Anyhow the techy guy who fixed it reckoned if your unit has EBS and your trailer does, the brakes would work, without the yellow line. Don’t think I dare try it though. On a foot note to my tale of the day, My trailer is one of the last freuhaufs made before they went bust, I was assured that although my warranty was knacked, valves etc would be covered by the manufacturers warranty, trouble is, although I took delivery of the trailer in Jan 05, they reckoned that valve was supplied to Freuhauf in Sept 04 leading to a tense afternoon. Thankfully after a bit of arm twisting they have seen the light pheww :laughing: