The-Snowman:
Carryfast:
.To which your answer is let’s stay in it.Show me where I said I want to remain in it.
Show me any arguments you’ve made to leave as opposed remain.
Carryfast:
The-Snowman:
Carryfast:
.To which your answer is let’s stay in it.Show me where I said I want to remain in it.
Show me any arguments you’ve made to leave as opposed remain.
Are you for real? Not saying im going to leave isnt quite the same as saying I want to remain is it? I haven’t made any arguments for staying either if you want to be technical.
Maybe you should stop reading too much into situations, second guessing everything and seeing stuff that isnt there.
I remember how this country was before we joined the EU or Common Market as it was known then it was supposed to be just for trade not every aspect of your life from eating a bent banana to a cpc.
Hospital waiting lists were unheard of. I could see my GP without an appointment.
We saw Policemen on the beat and children had no problem going to the school of their choice.
Anyone who needed a council house got one.
We didn’t have EU grants, we paid for things out of our own money.
If we didn’t like the Government, we voted to change it but they didn’t issue laws about Cheddar cheese only coming from Cheddar, that’s now the EU’s job.
We chose what we fished for and Spanish trawlers stayed out of our waters.
Our bins were emptied every week because we weren’t giving billions and billions to prop up Greece who won’t change the way they live to suit the EU.
All of this with out mentioning immigration!
VOTE OUT
Munchkin:
[quote uid=106839 name=“Munchkin” ]
Carryfast, I’m confused!
You seem to be an advocate of strong unions but against socialism.Sent from my X17 using Tapatalk
:roll:
Are you saying Jimmy Hoffa and the US unions in general were/are all zb Socialists.Which part of Fordist Capitalism don’t you understand. 
On that note the Soviet Union and Communist China aren’t noted for their strong unions,workers rights and high wage economies.Unlike 1960’s America.
Do you deliberately misunderstand everything and take it to the extreme?
You mentioned UK union strength in the 60s/70s which you seemed all for. The support those unions gave follow the if Labour party would strongly suggest they were/are socialist to the man in the street.
I was saying absolutely nothing about the Teamsters or any other U.S. union unless you read something I didn’t write?
As for which part of Fordist Capitalism don’t I understant. Hard to say really as I’ve never bleeding heard of it
[emoji1]
Also why do you think everyone with an agalitarian socialist view is a communist? Extrapolate that and every Tory voter wants to be Hitler!
Understand that the majority of us live our lives in a band either side of centre. Bit left or a bit right often depending on our own circumstances, age or even the company we keep.
Sent from my X17 using Tapatalk
[/quote]
I made the reference to US unions to make the case that you don’t have to be a Socialist to believe in strong unions.
Having been one there is no such thing as a little bit Socialist.It’s an all or nothing ideology.Which is why Corbyn is supporting the in campaign because like all Socialists he doesn’t do the idea of the Nation State and any that say they do are either lying.Or they don’t understand the definition of Socialism.You can put Shore,Benn and Heffer in the latter group.
Meanwhile you think it’s possible to be a bit Socialist and a bit Conservative and you don’t understand the definition of Fordist Capitalism or the strength of 1960’s US unions as opposed to the weakness of Unions under the Socialist system whether it be Callaghan’s or Blair’s version or Stalin’s or Mao’s.Here’s a clue Socialism is all about everyone is equal but some are much more equal than others especially the Party faithful and leaders.Just like the wrong type of Capitalism. 
Which leaves the only question of some Conservative ‘Unionists’ quite possibly being less Federalist than others IE Heath v Farage for two examples.The big breakthrough in politics being if/when people realise that Nationalist doesn’t mean ■■■■.■■■■ being a form of Socialist.
It’s scary when we’ve got a referendum on the choice between the Nation State v Socialist Federal government when much of the electorate don’t even understand the difference.Thereby resulting in Bolshevik tossers like Spinelli and his supporters creating his EUSSR by default.
The-Snowman:
Carryfast:
The-Snowman:
Carryfast:
.To which your answer is let’s stay in it.Show me where I said I want to remain in it.
Show me any arguments you’ve made to leave as opposed remain.
Are you for real? Not saying im going to leave isnt quite the same as saying I want to remain is it? I haven’t made any arguments for staying either if you want to be technical.
Maybe you should stop reading too much into situations, second guessing everything and seeing stuff that isnt there.
Like that is ever likely to happen.
Carryfast could start a row in an empty house, he is fixated on this issue as Dickinsons real deal has been knocked into touch by the football so we all have to suffer his inane ramblings.
Carryfast!
You have hijacked this thread with your 62 posts give someone else a chance!!!
moomooland:
Carryfast!You have hijacked this thread with your 32 posts give someone else a chance!!!
I haven’t seen any complaints from Harry in that regard.Since when did one person’s amount of posts on any topic stop anyone else from posting.Does it jam the system or something.
I started work in the late 1960’s so in the fortunate position to compare working pre Common Market (1973) to the present time. I voted to join the Common Market as there were only 6 member states and it seemed a sensible union at the time. Unfortunately it has grown to 25 member states (I think?), I cannot think of anything positive that benefits the UK today, only negatives. I will be voting to leave the Brussels Gestapo.
Fastrantiger:
I started work in the late 1960’s so in the fortunate position to compare working pre Common Market (1973) to the present time. I voted to join the Common Market as there were only 6 member states and it seemed a sensible union at the time. Unfortunately it has grown to 25 member states (I think?), I cannot think of anything positive that benefits the UK today, only negatives. I will be voting to leave the Brussels Gestapo.
It seemed to work well when it expanded slowly, and new entrants were required to have economies broadly in line with the economies of existing members. The 2004 and 2007 expansions virtually doubled the size of the eu, the new entrant countries had post-Communist economies which bore no relation to those of existing members and as a result, ever since, wages in western Europe have been pushed downwards, and will continue to be pushed downward until they are harmonised with eastern European wage levels.
The-Snowman:
Are you for real? Not saying im going to leave isnt quite the same as saying I want to remain is it? I haven’t made any arguments for staying either if you want to be technical.
Maybe you should stop reading too much into situations, second guessing everything and seeing stuff that isnt there.
So your reference here to
pensions
strength of the pound
european allies
trade
employment
business investment
wasn’t meant in sense that you personally think that an out vote would/could have any negative effects on any or all of them ?.Why bother listing them in that case.
The Eu, or eec/common market as was, was originally designed to be a trading community for the richer economies, pooling goods, services and labour. Arguably that’s what Norway, Switzerland and the like have got, just without the bs to go with it. Look at what the thing has morphed into today, with no desire, consultation or democracy as far as the members are concerned. Who can trust what it will become over the next 40 years?
How can it be right that they can stop us fishing our own waters, but allow a non eu country like Norway fish them, and sell us our own fish■■? And drill down what we get back, the bulk being a subsidy to our farming industry to keep fields fallow. I’d rather they were producing and selling, than being paid gardening leave.
The economists are all doom and gloom, as they represent the richer classes, the only people the unelected Union are good for. It carries no water saying the rich will get poorer by brexit, so they have to scare the electorate. They will say or do anything to keep the wheels turning on the gravy train.
Harry Monk:
It seemed to work well when it expanded slowly, and new entrants were required to have economies broadly in line with the economies of existing members. The 2004 and 2007 expansions virtually doubled the size of the eu, the new entrant countries had post-Communist economies which bore no relation to those of existing members and as a result, ever since, wages in western Europe have been pushed downwards, and will continue to be pushed downward until they are harmonised with eastern European wage levels.
If you look at the background and motivation of the thing’s founders it was always about forming a European version of the Soviet Union.Which ironically America has now corrupted even further into a strategic asset to contain Russia.Which could come back to bite us big time.
Realistically much of the naive 1975 vote was for the Common Market which was actually the deal given to the Channel Islands.While people like Shore,Powell and Benn knew better as to what we were actually being stitched up with.
Carryfast:
Bluey Circles:
And in Nicola I think we probably have the best and most sincere politician in the UK at the moment. I suspect she is in two minds about the vote, she is definitely all for staying in the EU, but an Exit would just be the perfect reason for another independence referendum.Are you serious.She’s a so called Nationalist supporting Altieri Spinelli’s communist vision for an EUSSR.
As you seem to have a fascination with Spinelli, at least get his name right. Altiero.
OVLOV JAY:
The Eu, or eec/common market as was, was originally designed to be a trading community for the richer economies, pooling goods, services and labour. Arguably that’s what Norway, Switzerland and the like have got, just without the bs to go with it.
It’s actually the Channel Islands example which is the relevant comparison not the deal that our previous EFTA partners have been stitched up with.
This is the reality for us as an EU member state.
Munchkin:
Carryfast:
Bluey Circles:
And in Nicola I think we probably have the best and most sincere politician in the UK at the moment. I suspect she is in two minds about the vote, she is definitely all for staying in the EU, but an Exit would just be the perfect reason for another independence referendum.Are you serious.She’s a so called Nationalist supporting Altieri Spinelli’s communist vision for an EUSSR.
As you seem to have a fascination with Spinelli, at least get his name right. Altiero.
Oh no I’ve pluralised the commy zb by typo mistake I’m sure he’d be happy about that having multiplied his influence even more.
I’ve already voted IN and here’s why.
In the Scottish referendum I voted for independence (out equivalent for arguments sake) as I’d felt that way since I became politically aware. 40years say. I felt it was the right thing emotionally and I was prepared to suffer any financial downside that may have involved. Not that I believed there would be any as it was always Scotland’s plan to remain an EU member. Also I work for a large American multinational who stated they wouldn’t care if we were UK or not!
In this referendum however I have felt no emotional involvement in the wish to take the UK out of the EU. This means that if there is a price to pay I’ll feel agreived at having to pay it. On the immigration front I can’t see any change if Brexit happens, “The Man” will stil need cheap labour and politicians will help him find it. Think, the “LGV driver shortage” lie which will lead to drivers “having” to be imported to fill the vacancies.
I don’t trust the French on asylum seekers/economic migrants whatever you call them. At the moment they have to show they’re doing something on their side of the channel. If the UK leaves my suspicion is that any migrant setting foot on French soil could well be whisked up to the channel and will manage to “sneak” onto a train as the Gendarmerie check the Boulle results.
As you seem to have a fascination with Spinelli, at least get his name right. Altiero.
Oh no I’ve pluralised the commy zb by typo mistake I’m sure he’d be happy about that having multiplied his influence even more
No problem, apology cheerfuly accepted.
Munchkin, the reasons you voted for Scottish independence are exactly the same as the reasons some of us want out of the eu. As for the problem of economic migrants from Africa and the Middle East, they will simply turn around and leave Calais, once they know we won’t be giving them the benefits, something we can’t deny them while members of the eu. And before the usual liberal posters come on, I’m talking about African/middle eastern economic migrants, not Eastern Europeans. Two totally different issues, to be tackled totally separate ways
OVLOV JAY, exactly the voting point I was making. It’s all about how you feel.
Got to disagree on the migrant issue though. I’m talking illegals who will just disappear into the black economy. If you come from a place where you have jack then a healthy economy offers untold opportunities. If the economy stays healthy, they’ll keep coming!
Munchkin:
I’ve already voted IN and here’s why.
In the Scottish referendum I voted for independence (out equivalent for arguments sake) as I’d felt that way since I became politically aware. 40years say. I felt it was the right thing emotionally and I was prepared to suffer any financial downside that may have involved. Not that I believed there would be any as it was always Scotland’s plan to remain an EU member. Also I work for a large American multinational who stated they wouldn’t care if we were UK or not!
In this referendum however I have felt no emotional involvement in the wish to take the UK out of the EU. This means that if there is a price to pay I’ll feel agreived at having to pay it. On the immigration front I can’t see any change if Brexit happens, “The Man” will stil need cheap labour and politicians will help him find it. Think, the “LGV driver shortage” lie which will lead to drivers “having” to be imported to fill the vacancies.
I don’t trust the French on asylum seekers/economic migrants whatever you call them. At the moment they have to show they’re doing something on their side of the channel. If the UK leaves my suspicion is that any migrant setting foot on French soil could well be whisked up to the channel and will manage to “sneak” onto a train as the Gendarmerie check the Boulle results.
Firstly are you saying that your US multi national employer is happy about leaving the EU not the UK ?.
As for Scottish Nationalist and EU Federalist that’s just an impossible contradiction it’s either one or the other there’s no possible common ground there.A bit like the stupidity of Irish Nationalism turning into EU Federalism.The only other possibility being the lie of Scottish Nationalist but in reality Socialist.
As for the French dumping immigrants on us that’s obviously already happening because EU rules prevent neither France or us from deporting them back to their place of origin.