The eu referendum- how do you intend to vote?

UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUMS THE UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUM (INTERACTIVE)
101

Thing is Snowman, by remaining the immigration situation cannot be controlled no matter how many promises (lies) Cameron or anyone else makes whilst still inside.

No one with an ounce of sense expects any changes after an (honoured) Brexit vote for probably several years, we’re going to have the mother of all battles for the Tory party and thank goodness for that because it’s unfit for purpose and has been for 20 years, hopefully a proper conservative party will emerge led by people who’ve had a real job before and know a bit about making things work.
Hopefully the labour party will implode and reform itself back into a party that actually represents British working people, the very people it has turned its back on in recent years, with few notable exception, ie Skinner, Field, Hoey.

We are all in the dark whatever happens, the EU is going down the federal road with Germany as its leader just as it wanted before, it couldn’t get by gun and shell but its done it with money and menaces with France’s govt hanging onto Merkels skirts like some little kid.
No one knows for sure how leaving will pan out, we can guess and it’s not as if we haven’t been on our own before.

This referendum has to be judged from your heart, either you’re happy to subervient to a bunch of unelected apparatchiks or you’re not, i’m not.

Our govt is far from perfect, but we as an electorate have to take a massive share of the blame for this, people have been bribed by successive govts with their own money for their vote, i’m actually more disgusted with people who voted in that Blair creature 3 times and Cameron twice, than i am with the unholy pair themselves…they can’t help being what they are, but the electorate voluntarily endorsed them and that is almost unforgiveable.
OK so until recently there wasn’t an alternative, but in reality we should en masse have either spoiled out ballots or voted in the monster raving loonies, they couldn’t have been worse than the NuLab and Tory parties of the last 20 years…but people who understandably didn’t want to for either of the two parties (we’ll ignore the limp dumps) couldn’t even be arsed to go to the polling station and write ■■■■■■■■ on the slip, they have no right to complain at what has become of this country.

Maybe just maybe now people have woken up to the utter shambles that the leadership of our country and the EU are, and the real state of our economy, they might find it within themselves to think about more than ‘‘whats in it for me’’ when it comes to replacing the status quo…one can but hope.

102

Carryfast, I’m confused!
You seem to be an advocate of strong unions but against socialism.

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103

Dolph fill your boots on that German job 1800euro take home a month count that as a good wage was getting 900 a week 2 years ago so wouldn’t count that as a decent wage, speaking to two German drivers from Berlin last night the average seems to be around the 9 euro per hour mark, on current exchange rates that is just about level with the UK minimum wage.

104

Dolph:
Its gonna be very interesting referendum for sure.
Some people here are very misinformed, wanting to make his/hers own law because a Romanian got a benefit check, like EU made you have this benefit system.
UK is what it is(economically) thanks to EU, you think you will flourish out of the common market, good to see how. Who is going to give you better deal - EU, US, China, Australia or Canada, you are for a big reality check on 24th if you think you will keep the size of the current economy without EU, does preventing you from heaving upper hand in trade negotiations.
A lot of businesses will go bust without immigrant cheap labor, yeah I know Brits will do the job for twice the minimum wage, but who’s gonna buy so expensive products - no one. 80% of your GDP is services anyway…
The sovereignty issue is a reasonable and more then enough to vote for.

From an outside Britain looks like this: Britain applied twice, flourished for 40 decades, Brits worked in EU in the 70’s and 80’s - you all seems to forget this, retire on the continent again wherever you wanted, you economy is booming because you attract foreign investments and people thanks to EU, you opted out of the Euro and Schengen etc. etc. exploted your option to a huge extend
You simply want to dictate how thing are run in EU, want to get always the best deal, because you are British and above all others, I see this mentality here…

May be its time I start learning other languages :grimacing:
Class 1 work in Germany advertised in Bulgaria :laughing: :
“German transport company is looking to recruit international drivers to carry cargo. Requirements kandidadite: - German conversational level (A2-B1) - carried out an interview with German employer; - international experience - 1-3 years - cat . C + E; digital map, Professor. competence, ADR and recommendations cat. D are a plus for the candidate. We offer: - payment - € 1800 start (net) - Permanent employment contract - German health and welfare; - 5 days driving / 2 days holiday (Saturday and Sunday) - accommodation in Germany lodging around 400 euros a month. Candidates will work in Germany; hours: 40 to 50 hours per week, leave 20 -24 days paid leave per year. Please send your CV in German and certificate / qualification. We guarantee confidentiality of all applications sent our candidates under the Law on Personal Data Protection Act”.

How can we possibly get a worse deal than paying a fortune in net contributions for the privilege of being a net importer of EU products. :unamused:

As for the ad good luck with that when Merkel lets Turkey in and cabotage restrictions are removed.While Germans have never exactly been big employers’ of Brits.

So what’s in it for us.

105

The problem in the case of Scotland being that its so called Nationalist Party is actually a bunch of Federalists masquerading under the Nationalist banner.

The whole point of a nationalist party is to gain independence. Once that’s achieved then the party members can then follow their own political agendas, like the Americans did. Did someone say federalism…[emoji6]

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106

Also there seems to be no problem for the Brexiters when comes to immigration from non EU countries, which are more then EU migration every single year, but UK Gov keeps giving visas. Migrants who can be controlled, but are not, how many stay here once they come… I don’t see Farage talking bad against immigrants from Africa, Asia, lets say India, Pakistan etc. only Bulgarians and Romanians are the most “dangerous and evil”, after the Polish “invasion”.
Hypocrisy at it best.
Im guessing Leave camp would like to leave the world, since migrants from around the world are more

107

Munchkin:
Carryfast, I’m confused!
You seem to be an advocate of strong unions but against socialism.

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:unamused:

Are you saying Jimmy Hoffa and the US unions in general were/are all zb Socialists.Which part of Fordist Capitalism don’t you understand. :bulb:

On that note the Soviet Union and Communist China aren’t noted for their strong unions,workers rights and high wage economies.Unlike 1960’s America.

108

Carryfast:

Dolph:
Its gonna be very interesting referendum for sure.
Some people here are very misinformed, wanting to make his/hers own law because a Romanian got a benefit check, like EU made you have this benefit system.
UK is what it is(economically) thanks to EU, you think you will flourish out of the common market, good to see how. Who is going to give you better deal - EU, US, China, Australia or Canada, you are for a big reality check on 24th if you think you will keep the size of the current economy without EU, does preventing you from heaving upper hand in trade negotiations.
A lot of businesses will go bust without immigrant cheap labor, yeah I know Brits will do the job for twice the minimum wage, but who’s gonna buy so expensive products - no one. 80% of your GDP is services anyway…
The sovereignty issue is a reasonable and more then enough to vote for.

From an outside Britain looks like this: Britain applied twice, flourished for 40 decades, Brits worked in EU in the 70’s and 80’s - you all seems to forget this, retire on the continent again wherever you wanted, you economy is booming because you attract foreign investments and people thanks to EU, you opted out of the Euro and Schengen etc. etc. exploted your option to a huge extend
You simply want to dictate how thing are run in EU, want to get always the best deal, because you are British and above all others, I see this mentality here…

May be its time I start learning other languages :grimacing:
Class 1 work in Germany advertised in Bulgaria :laughing: :
“German transport company is looking to recruit international drivers to carry cargo. Requirements kandidadite: - German conversational level (A2-B1) - carried out an interview with German employer; - international experience - 1-3 years - cat . C + E; digital map, Professor. competence, ADR and recommendations cat. D are a plus for the candidate. We offer: - payment - € 1800 start (net) - Permanent employment contract - German health and welfare; - 5 days driving / 2 days holiday (Saturday and Sunday) - accommodation in Germany lodging around 400 euros a month. Candidates will work in Germany; hours: 40 to 50 hours per week, leave 20 -24 days paid leave per year. Please send your CV in German and certificate / qualification. We guarantee confidentiality of all applications sent our candidates under the Law on Personal Data Protection Act”.

How can we possibly get a worse deal than paying a fortune in net contributions for the privilege of being a net importer of EU products. :unamused:

As for the ad good luck with that when Merkel lets Turkey in and cabotage restrictions are removed.While Germans have never exactly been big employers’ of Brits.

So what’s in it for us.

You are net importer, but, a very big BUT, you get 5-8% of several countries goods, mainly Germany and Netherlands, which is 8% of total EU export, thats is nothing compared to yours 44% export to EU.
British Government is the main drive engine for Turkey membership of EU, Cameron has said it back 2010. No matter how stupid Merkel is, no matter how she twist countries hand, no country in Eastern Europe will support Turkey. Draw a line from Warsaw to Zagreb on the map, all to the east will vote NO when Turkey applies.

109

Munchkin:
The problem in the case of Scotland being that its so called Nationalist Party is actually a bunch of Federalists masquerading under the Nationalist banner.
word
The whole point of a nationalist party is to gain independence. Once that’s achieved then the party members can then follow their own political agendas, like the Americans did. Did someone say federalism…[emoji6]

To be fair the anti v pro federalist argument in America went a ‘bit’ further than a ‘referendum’ and the argument still isn’t over yet.

That’s a Nationalist agenda.Which by definition can only be the total antithesis of a Federalist agenda.

thetnm.org/a_word_on_the_uk_ … from_texas

110

Dolph:

Carryfast:
How can we possibly get a worse deal than paying a fortune in net contributions for the privilege of being a net importer of EU products. :unamused:

As for the ad good luck with that when Merkel lets Turkey in and cabotage restrictions are removed.While Germans have never exactly been big employers’ of Brits.

So what’s in it for us.

You are net importer, but, a very big BUT, you get 5-8% of several countries goods, mainly Germany and Netherlands, which is 8% of total EU export, thats is nothing compared to yours 44% export to EU.
British Government is the main drive engine for Turkey membership of EU, Cameron has said it back 2010. No matter how stupid Merkel is, no matter how she twist countries hand, no country in Eastern Europe will support Turkey. Draw a line from Warsaw to Zagreb on the map, all to the east will vote NO when Turkey applies.

Firstly how much of the 44% is oil which does nothing but just deplete the reserves in exchange for German manufactured goods we can make for ourselves thereby putting our own out of work.While the ‘amount’ of trade is irrelevant when it’s the ‘trade balance’ in ‘cash’ terms which matters.On that basis our EU trade is a liability to us and has been since we joined.Let alone paying a fortune in net contributions for the privilege.

111

Dolph:
Also there seems to be no problem for the Brexiters when comes to immigration from non EU countries, which are more then EU migration every single year, but UK Gov keeps giving visas. Migrants who can be controlled, but are not, how many stay here once they come… I don’t see Farage talking bad against immigrants from Africa, Asia, lets say India, Pakistan etc. only Bulgarians and Romanians are the most “dangerous and evil”, after the Polish “invasion”.
Hypocrisy at it best.
Im guessing Leave camp would like to leave the world, since migrants from around the world are more

Ironically you’re being no less hypocritical than the ‘Commonwealth’ immigrant communities here saying exactly the same thing regards East Euro immigration in that regard.IE self interest and fighting among yourselves as to who gets to carve out the biggest slice of our country for yourselves.On that note I’m in the leave camp and I don’t differentiate.We’re full we’ve got enough we need to close the door and even repatriate some of who we’ve got.While ironically I’d,marginally,actually prefer the East Euro prescence than the African Asian one on the basis of a relatively less alien culture,given the choice.But it’s a choice I’ve got no intention of making and if Farage is wrong on anything he’s wrong on that issue. :bulb:

112

There is only one logic choice in this referendum and it is IN.
I would suggest people to listen to BBC 4 while you drive your lorries a lot of interesting conversations, interviews.
This morning it was Priti Patel’s turn and she got owned by the interviewer, did not answer any direct question, kept repeating the same thing over and over again and could explain where all this money is coming from the leave campaign has promised voters.
Every major economical body is telling us we would be making a serious mistake by leaving the EU, but obviously some voters are ready to harm themselves just to show how important their votes are.

113

Carryfast:
.To which your answer is let’s stay in it.

Show me where I said I want to remain in it.

Cheers Juddian & Ovlov. Was kind of what I suspected to be honest. No guarantee it WILL change if we leave but there is a guarantee it wont if we stay. I personally dont think anything will change if we get a leave vote. I think who ever gets left to run the country will make some sort of deal that allows free movement in order to try to curry favour to get better trade agreements. Because despite what some people think, it wont be as easy as saying “■■■■ em” and thinking that the EU wont hold a gun to our heads to stifle us. Anyone who thinks they’ll let a silly thing like the rules get in the way of hurting us for leaving needs their head examined.
This sums up the biggest problem with the in/out debate for me. Its the same as with the Scottish referendum. The leaver campaign need to convince everyone it will be ok and how they will do it for each point. The remain just need to throw enough scare stories out there to make people think “better the devil you know”. The biggest problem with the Scottish one was things like the currency we would use. SNP said we could use the pound, tories said no. We’ll never know if we could have or not but they failed to convince people they had a solid plan for it and it is the same kind of problems I see for leave campaigners. They are not offering proper arguments to quell the scare stories.
Incidently Juddian, you say we might get a stronger tory party out of it. If we do leave, dave is gone. I know Big Boris has his eye on the top job and its why hes all for brexit but do you think he will be a good PM if he gets the top seat? I personally think it will be a ■■■■■■■ disaster but im not going to lie (and its probably perfectly obvious) but I know precious little about politics. Doesnt interest me that much. Im a call a spade a spade as I see it sort of person so maybe im missing something about him that will make him good at it

114

anon84679660:
Every major economical body is telling us we would be making a serious mistake by leaving the EU

But do you not think that the people who form these bodies possibly have their own interests at heart, rather than ours? I can fully understand why landowners, factory owners, bankers etc might support eu membership, but that won’t necessarily be because their interests and ours are mutual.

115

Fortune favours the brave (other sound bites/sayings are available).

The remain camp saying; ‘ok its crap, but at least its crap we know’, doesn’t sound right to me. I prefer, ‘it may be crap, but at least its our crap’.

The remain camp harp on about us being worse off, but will we be? For a fact? And if we will be worse off, does that override our happiness? The happiness of the nation was something Dave Cam used to mention frequently, and as Nigel Farage said on Question Time the other day, the happiness of the nation is worth more than a 1% rise in GDP.

David Cameron has been bullying those near retirement (populace very likely to vote, and vote out), by saying he may change his mind about their pension rights (rises) in future if we come out of the eu. This is a very cynical move which I think may backfire on him.

The UK’s most respected fund/investment manager, Neil Woodford, who runs the Woodford Equity Income fund looking after £8,600 million of peoples and institutions money, remains agnostic on the economy in either case. He commissioned independent research which proposed that in the event of a brexit, the economy will take a big hit initially but quickly recover (remember that following the credit crisis in 2008/9 the uk stock market had a stellar performance until early last year, although it could be argued this was a result of quantitative easing).

I am finding it very difficult to filter and understand the information from each side, both sides say each other are lying.

116

Snowman, personally i don’t reckon Boris either, he puts his mouth where the money is.

Chris Grayling might be a steady hand on the tiller in the meantime, i notice Mrs May has been keeping a low profile during the last few weeks, be interesting to see if she comes out on the outside should it become obvious a leave win has it…mind you it wouldn’t surprise me if Slippery Dave comes out with the old ‘‘i was playing devils advocate’’ routine soon as the polls close…and i don’t believe he necessarily has to go either, he’s utterly unprincipled and immoral buit that’s hardly unusual in front line politics.
I wouldn’t put anything past these career politicians…i’m especially disgusted at Corbyn who has always been sceptical of the EU in the Wedgie Benn camp school of thought all the years he’s been a back bencher, another sell out, i had given him the benefit of the doubt in the hope we might see the return of some principles in the labour front ranks, yeah right.

In all honesty if the whole of the front benches of both main parties ■■■■■■ off it wouldn’t be a bad thing, we desperately need some firm leadership over the next couple of decades, and thats the case whether we stay or leave.

We’ve got a £1.5 Trillion national debt and still growing, both NuLab and the modern Tories have proved over the last 20 years that neither can be trusted with the running of the country, we have to stop voting for the least worst option (at best) or for the one who promises to give us more of our own money borrowed in our grandchildrens name.
If the politicians lack honour and integrity it doesn’t mean we have to follow their poor example, we have a choice.

Time for the nation to grow up a bit and realise that ■■■■■■■ borrowed money up the wall of the last 3 decades has got to end.

117

Juddian:
Thing is Snowman, by remaining the immigration situation cannot be controlled no matter how many promises (lies) Cameron or anyone else makes whilst still inside.

No one with an ounce of sense expects any changes after an (honoured) Brexit vote for probably several years, we’re going to have the mother of all battles for the Tory party and thank goodness for that because it’s unfit for purpose and has been for 20 years, hopefully a proper conservative party will emerge led by people who’ve had a real job before and know a bit about making things work.
Hopefully the labour party will implode and reform itself back into a party that actually represents British working people, the very people it has turned its back on in recent years, with few notable exception, ie Skinner, Field, Hoey.

We are all in the dark whatever happens, the EU is going down the federal road with Germany as its leader just as it wanted before, it couldn’t get by gun and shell but its done it with money and menaces with France’s govt hanging onto Merkels skirts like some little kid.
No one knows for sure how leaving will pan out, we can guess and it’s not as if we haven’t been on our own before.

This referendum has to be judged from your heart, either you’re happy to subervient to a bunch of unelected apparatchiks or you’re not, i’m not.

Our govt is far from perfect, but we as an electorate have to take a massive share of the blame for this, people have been bribed by successive govts with their own money for their vote, i’m actually more disgusted with people who voted in that Blair creature 3 times and Cameron twice, than i am with the unholy pair themselves…they can’t help being what they are, but the electorate voluntarily endorsed them and that is almost unforgiveable.
OK so until recently there wasn’t an alternative, but in reality we should en masse have either spoiled out ballots or voted in the monster raving loonies, they couldn’t have been worse than the NuLab and Tory parties of the last 20 years…but people who understandably didn’t want to for either of the two parties (we’ll ignore the limp dumps) couldn’t even be arsed to go to the polling station and write ■■■■■■■■ on the slip, they have no right to complain at what has become of this country.

Maybe just maybe now people have woken up to the utter shambles that the leadership of our country and the EU are, and the real state of our economy, they might find it within themselves to think about more than ‘‘whats in it for me’’ when it comes to replacing the status quo…one can but hope.

Juddian for prime minister!

He has consistently talked a lot of sense on this matter, as have others.

Something to remember about a deal with the Eu for trade (which will be at least 2 years anyway) is there needs to be an EU to trade with.

Greece will meed another bailout soon. Italy is heading that way to. France isnt in great shape before you consider Le Penn in the elections. I honestly think that onc we vote to leave the house of cards will collapse. Then each country can do a deal with each other. It will be bumpy, no question about that but I think it is for the best

118

:roll:

Are you saying Jimmy Hoffa and the US unions in general were/are all zb Socialists.Which part of Fordist Capitalism don’t you understand. :bulb:

On that note the Soviet Union and Communist China aren’t noted for their strong unions,workers rights and high wage economies.Unlike 1960’s America.

Do you deliberately misunderstand everything and take it to the extreme?

You mentioned UK union strength in the 60s/70s which you seemed all for. The support those unions gave follow the if Labour party would strongly suggest they were/are socialist to the man in the street.
I was saying absolutely nothing about the Teamsters or any other U.S. union unless you read something I didn’t write?
As for which part of Fordist Capitalism don’t I understant. Hard to say really as I’ve never bleeding heard of it
[emoji1]
Also why do you think everyone with an agalitarian socialist view is a communist? Extrapolate that and every Tory voter wants to be Hitler!

Understand that the majority of us live our lives in a band either side of centre. Bit left or a bit right often depending on our own circumstances, age or even the company we keep.

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119

Apologies for carp spelling in previous post !

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120

anon84679660:
There is only one logic choice in this referendum and it is IN.
I would suggest people to listen to BBC 4 while you drive your lorries a lot of interesting conversations, interviews.
This morning it was Priti Patel’s turn and she got owned by the interviewer, did not answer any direct question, kept repeating the same thing over and over again and could explain where all this money is coming from the leave campaign has promised voters.
Every major economical body is telling us we would be making a serious mistake by leaving the EU, but obviously some voters are ready to harm themselves just to show how important their votes are.

Priti Patel.She isn’t bright enough to even have an economic argument. :unamused: All I’ve seen of her arguments is the same self interest Asian v East Euro immigration issue.

Feel free to explain how the lifting of cabotage restrictions and Turkish membership is a good thing for indigenous drivers.

Or continuing with the current free movement of labour policy.Or our massive trade deficit.Or our net contributions are all a good thing.On that note you might not have noticed but the country’s finances are actually in deep zb in large part because of the above.