The eu referendum- how do you intend to vote?

the nodding donkey:
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
stop it now… you really are Russel Brand arn’t you? Pompous and full of waffle, but without a modicum of real knowledge. Baffled and flustered when confronted by knowledge.

Anyway Russel, I enjoyed our discussion tonight, pity you couldn’t step up to the plate really. But as I have to get up in the morning to work, I’ll bid you farEwell for tonight.

It’s you that doesn’t seem to be able to answer simple if inconvenient questions with a clear answer.You really do sound like zb Cameron to me.Which leaves the question why would a series of Conservative leaders have wanted to follow the ideals of a Communist Federalist in the form of the EU.

I am voting leave because the eu is a crap organisation which is too big and already cracks are appearing. As for trade the majority of our trade is with the rest of the world not the eu but they try to put constraints on us. It has destroyed our farming and fishing industries and I signed up to a common market only not a federal Europe. The eurozone is failing and they see us as a milk cow to prop up their failures many more reasons but that is enough for me

volvo2:
I signed up to a common market only not a federal Europe.

Strangely that’s exactly the deal which the government made for the Channel Islands when we joined so they obviously realised that there was an intentional difference in our entry conditions.IE the government lied and it was always about Heath’s,Wilson’s,Callaghan’s and Thatcher’s wish to join an EU Federation.If not they’d have joined under the same conditions laid down for the Channel Islands. :bulb:

Carryfast:

volvo2:
I signed up to a common market only not a federal Europe.

Strangely that’s exactly the deal which the government made for the Channel Islands when we joined so they obviously realised that there was an intentional difference in our entry conditions.IE the government lied and it was always about Heath’s,Wilson’s,Callaghan’s and Thatcher’s wish to join an EU Federation.If not they’d have joined under the same conditions laid down for the Channel Islands. :bulb:

Had we known what was coming I doubt if we would have voted to join this beast. Yes they lied they knew all along but conned us/

Voted last week by post!

Paul

I’m OUT

They can shove the E.U where the sun don’t shine.

What’s been interesting about this entire referendum debate is that essentially people don’t know what to believe, and therefore have to take a view based upon their heads of their hearts.

I saw the first remain poster whilst out driving tonight, having seen hundreds of leave posters anywhere and everywhere these past few weeks.
It was on an overbridge over the A11 near fourwentways, northbound. Small, blue, and wasn’t there last wednesday the last time I was on that stretch of road.

I don’t imagine for a minute that remain will be getting as low a poll as the lack of their posters suggests - but rather it compares to the “Shy Tories” who unexpectedly gave Cameron his majority in the election last year - choosing to blame all the sins of the coalition upon the Libdems.

It’s possible that Cameron is playing a blinder here, and that this way of approaching the referendum is the only way he can get it past Brussels for a knock-out blow.
If this entire campaign IS to be “a very clever play” though - he will have to come clean as soon as possible after the polls close (so it doesn’t affect the result) but not so long after - that we all think he’s gravy-train running just to keep his number 10 door away from Boris…

Boris uttered the other day “I am loyal”. I wonder. Hmm…

The worst possible result in this referendum - is the public split 50/50. That’s pretty much where we’re at right now, the recent “Leave Surge” taking Brexit from Behind to level ■■■■■■■ - if you believe even an “average” of the many polls done these past few days. The betting HAS drifted on Remain to be sure - out from odds-on 1/4 last month to odds-on 4/7 now.
The price on “turnout over 80%” has also shorted up by half as well. I reckon the “registration extension” has got a lot more people to vote - for sure - but for remain? - It would be dangerous to assume all apathetic voters/floating voters/young voters/labour voters/Corbyn supporters/Scots/On-line trolls - will end up voting remain come the day. Many won’t bother, others will say they voted one way, but will actually vote the other - fear of losing face?

Leave’s arguments are based upon “unknowns” which the public are rather foolishly informed somehow constitute “lies”.

Remain’s arguments are based on “past data” in many cases, and severely over-estimate how much of the supposed “EU Lucre” reaches the ground.

I doubt very much if any of us professional drivers will be losing their job - regardless of the vote. A narrow win for Brexit is possibly the worst result of all, because it extends the “uncertainty” factor into the middle to long term, rather than draws a line under it all by a week saturday. A narrow win for Remain isn’t much better of a result though - because the main two parties will be shredded in the aftermath, de-stablizing British politics outright. With no Lib-Dems to provide “middle of the road” balance - we could see a rainbow parliament with SNP and UKIP being the two largest parties by 2020 if we’re not careful.
A good sized win for either side - is what’s desirable then.

I don’t think anyone should cast their vote based upon “uncertainty” though, as it smacks of “I don’t want to take a risk with change, so I’m passing up this opportunity to say my piece”.
If you are a remainer - get out and vote! I don’t want to live in a country where Remain just won by 51/49 - If they MUST win - let it be 75/25 or better please!
If you are a brexiteer, but can’t stand anyone in the Leave camp - Get out and vote! You’re doing this for your kids - NOT to put Boris in Number 10… That same 75/25 result is highly desirable in favour of Brexit too, as anything less than that - might well be glossed over by all concerned on a “Go out and do it again, and come back with the right result this time” - as was the case in the Irish referendum.

Just vote. :neutral_face:

If we leave the EU, truck drivers’ wages will be lower, not higher. It’s complicated how this works (it isn’t as simple as Nigel Farage’s “this then that” logic), but it is the truth. Wages will be lower, not higher. There will be fewer jobs for British people, not more.

Don’t listen to the Sun and other Murdoch newspapers. Rupert Murdoch wants us to leave, and he and other members of the plutocracy are engaging in a (very successful) effort to convince poor people that this is good for them. It is not unlike their efforts with the Tea Party in the US, where they convinced the working classes that a low-tax-low-spend economic model was somehow in their best interests.

Seriously. Listen to the trade unions. This will be very bad for us, and for our children, and for our grandchildren. This cannot be undone in 5 years if we make a mistake. This is permanent.

How can you quote living standards from times gone by? They are simply not relevant…
As for not getting it, we have a far better chance of dictating to our lying scum politicians if we only have them to deal with, and not the ones in Brussels as well!

[/quote]
This made me laugh!
The return to times gone by seems to be the main argument of the Leavers.

It would be dangerous to assume all apathetic voters/floating voters/young voters/labour voters/Corbyn supporters/Scots/On-line trolls - will end up voting remain come the day.

As a Scot I’ve already voted Remain as I already live in a country with a government I didn’t vote for and having my laws made in a country I don’t live in.

100 % out…

Darkside:
Remain…

Anyone in the movement of goods for a living who wants to leave a big market to a smaller one really needs a checkup.

what about closing the door to foreign trucks taking our work?

burnley-si:

Darkside:
Remain…

Anyone in the movement of goods for a living who wants to leave a big market to a smaller one really needs a checkup.

what about closing the door to foreign trucks taking our work?

very true…hopefully it will go back to what it should be…back t the place ov origin…y should a ee b pulling Dutch Swedish ect trailers when they are from miles away …

Leave. Always has been.

It’s a fat cat gravy train. Neil Kinnock, rejected twice by this country so took himself off to Brussels joined the club for a few years and got a BIG FAT pension whilst deciding our future. Unelected.
It might be different if the EU ministers could be elected but they aren’t ( Nicola wee burnie Sturgeon is not elected by the people either, can never figure that out and I am Scottish. Would sooner have Rab C and Jamsey ffs ).
I want us the UK to be in control of our future. And plenty other reasons.

Herbert1561:
If we leave the EU, truck drivers’ wages will be lower, not higher. It’s complicated how this works (it isn’t as simple as Nigel Farage’s “this then that” logic), but it is the truth. Wages will be lower, not higher. There will be fewer jobs for British people, not more.

Don’t listen to the Sun and other Murdoch newspapers. Rupert Murdoch wants us to leave, and he and other members of the plutocracy are engaging in a (very successful) effort to convince poor people that this is good for them. It is not unlike their efforts with the Tea Party in the US, where they convinced the working classes that a low-tax-low-spend economic model was somehow in their best interests.

Seriously. Listen to the trade unions. This will be very bad for us, and for our children, and for our grandchildren. This cannot be undone in 5 years if we make a mistake. This is permanent.

Why are the trade Unions right about this, when they were wrong about the coal mines, wrong in 1979, and wrong allowing any reforms over the years for examples?

Wages can only be lower if there are a glut of MORE people chasing FEWER jobs. Brexit will surely stop any more newcomers straight away, and eventually discourage those already here to go home again - at least under a more right-shifting Tory government post-Brexit. Eg. “Cut benefits for all immigrants” which we cannot do at present, as it’s against EU law.
Jobs disappear? - I don’t work for Brussels. I cart food about for a firm that’s ultimately owned by an american multinational. People will still eat after Brexit, and belts won’t get tightened unless jobs go. Jobs won’t go unless belts get tightened… Get it? It takes a lot more than you might think to break the economic cycle - especially in the relatively “Recession Proof” industries…

There will be less foreign trucks coming here with their produce as well -unless the EU give us a palatable deal to be going on with. If they DON’T, then they’d be cutting off their OWN trade profit, whilst we can send merchant shipping anywhere in the world that’s got produce and a port - and make “alternative arrangements”. That’s LESS FOREIGN TRUCKS rather than “less of ours” on the roads.

Is there anyone on here who’s British, drives only within the UK, and their job is ONLY fetching imported stuff from ports, and then delivering it around the UK? - There will be a lot more jobs like this - I suggest.
If Johnny Foreigner isn’t bringing it in by ferry any more - it comes in by ship, and WE go and get it!

Wages will be higher - and that might stoke inflation. THAT is the “risk” here.
The demand won’t go down - because we won’t suddenly be losing all those millions already here overnight…
Financial markets will have a dip, and then a bounce - as is usual in these “upheaval” situations.

I suggest that Brexit will be non more of an upheaval than it was in 1997 when we finally decided at that time to “chuck the Tories, and take a chance on New Labour”… :bulb: :bulb:

Munchkin:
As a Scot I’ve already voted Remain as I already live in a country with a government I didn’t vote for and having my laws made in a country I don’t live in.

One of the factors swaying me to a remain vote is, I definitely don’t want another Scottish Independence referendum - we have had years of this crap up here, we had years of the first independence referendum, then we had the UK general election, then the Scottish Elections, now this EU referendum - I really don’t want to move straight into more political campaigning stating on june 24th - Its a Neverendum up here.

As for not getting the gov you voted for, 64% of the UK don’t have the Gov they voted for, and 54% of scots didn’t vote for the SNP - Seems not having the gov you voted for is the norm.

Herbert1561:
This cannot be undone in 5 years if we make a mistake. This is permanent.

Think you’re getting a little muddled up there fella, IF we Remain we are stuck with it and it will be permanent yes, however I strongly believe that if we leave then the EU will be offering us “get back in” deals from here to eternity, this is not about pride or about saving face this is about money pure and simple and as we are the second biggest cash cow, of course they’ll want us back in!

For me it’s a vote with your eyes, not your ears. It’s a leap in the unknown to an extent, but do I trust governments and institutions who represent big business, that have a proven track record of calling major financial forecasts wrong? Hell no I don’t!

If Boris becomes pm, he can be chucked out in as little as 3 years (that’s called democracy) but it could be 50 years if ever again that we get a vote on this. Who knows how far into federal oblivion we will be then. Don’t use the Boris pm red herring as an excuse to take the lazy option.

Will we have tariffs imposed? Probably, but the wto forbids them to victimise us on a personal agenda. And we hold the aces, we have a deficit of trade. Tariffs hurt them, not us. We have two choices, bring back manufacturing to this country, British jobs for the British economy, or get even cheaper goods from the Far East, as we won’t have to apply the tariffs we do now, being part of the eu. The only reason we rely on imports is because companies flagged out to the east as wages are a quarter of ours. And it might all be bs anyway, because big companies are only producing abroad to sell here, not buying from abroad. How can the Eu charge a tariff on their own product when the haven’t yet sold it?

For me I’ve watched my wages drop around 8% on paper, and 40% in real terms since 2003. We’re all hanging onto jobs because of the minimum wage, which means companies can only undercut each other to a point. What will happen when cabotage is lifted? Most firms will just pack up, when Eastern European hauliers flood the shores with empty trucks, on cheaper fuel, and cheaper wages. A vote to leave is a vote to protect jobs.

Since the last expansion of the eu, the influx of cheap labour has pushed many skilled and marginal waged jobs into low level employment. Real term wage cuts of up to 50%. What will happen with the next round of expansion, allowing more sub strength economies a seat at the table? The union is a busted flush.

And don’t believe all the crap about diminished workers rights. In real terms your rights are take it or leave it. Every employer gives the bare minimum, most stop right there. For a start no post eu government would be able to get rights repealed, and why would they? Why take the burden of maternity pay from the employer, forcing the worker onto state benefits? No surprise the rha has 60% of small to medium members in favour of out, while 80% of large hauliers want remain. These are the large companies employing drivers on less than £10 per hour at weekends, forcing drivers to book Boxing Day as holiday.

For me it’s a move away from unelected buearocrats and a return to sovereign governance, where every decision is held accountable with no ifs or buts, in a mandatory time frame.

For me I’m going to take a leap into the unknown, as I already know the eu doesn’t work. I’ve seen my wages go down, and the only way I can see a long term reverse, is a little short term uncertainty. I’ve survived up to now, I’ll be ok for another 10 years, but if we’re still in the eu, I’ve no doubt that I simply won’t have a job in ten years

Whatever the consequences may be, whatever prosperity or turmoil comes as a result of choosing either side. The vote ultimately is about wether or not we take full sovereign control of the destiny of the UK

OVLOV JAY:
What will happen when cabotage is lifted? Most firms will just pack up, when Eastern European hauliers flood the shores with empty trucks, on cheaper fuel, and cheaper wages.

For any British person working in the transport industry, I’d say this is THE essential point to consider. Cabotage restrictions will be removed at some point, and then the whole transport industry will go the same way as the continental transport industry.