Out.
Postal already.
For me its simple, since the neither side can agree on a set of facts between the two of them, I have to take economic, and migrant arguments to one side. I then vote on whether I want my laws made in the UK, or if I want a load passed down to me as well by another organisation.
I don’t care what it costs me personally, I have a mortgage, I can reasonably expect another 40 years in work. It comes down to principle, and I vote for the chap or chap-esse in 10 Downing Street, not some EU politicians I’ve never heard of.
For what its worth I think we will remain. But I couldn’t live with myself without having my say.
albion:
the nodding donkey:
Sorry evil, but you don’t get it. If you had a government that had the best interests of the people of this island at heart, yes, I would agree with you. But you government has only it’s own interests at heart. And will return the working people of this country to what it was like then. And let’s not bulls hit each other. What was the standard of living of the man in the street like in 1830? Or 1926? Or 1748?
But that’s illogical. Working conditions improved immeasurably since even the latest of those dates, 1926. And before we joined the EU. The UK has better holiday allowance, far better maternity leave an d pay, IIRC the instigator for a NMW, those aren’t going to just disappear.
We’ve got more chance of maintaining better wages by isolating the domestic labour market from the East Euro,let alone Turkish, one than by staying in it.While if the EU was all about workers ‘rights’ it would have imposed an EU minimum wage based on the highest denominator and the right to strike in the form of secondary action.
the nodding donkey:
And who instigated those improvements, and who endeavours to uphold them? David Cameron? Maggi Thatcher? Tony Bliar?
You do know that they were/are all Europhile PM’s.Just like Callaghan was.You know the ones who introduced wage reductions in real terms and gave uk jobs to German and East Euro workers soon to be joined by the Turks. 
Carryfast:
albion:
the nodding donkey:
Sorry evil, but you don’t get it. If you had a government that had the best interests of the people of this island at heart, yes, I would agree with you. But you government has only it’s own interests at heart. And will return the working people of this country to what it was like then. And let’s not bulls hit each other. What was the standard of living of the man in the street like in 1830? Or 1926? Or 1748?
But that’s illogical. Working conditions improved immeasurably since even the latest of those dates, 1926. And before we joined the EU. The UK has better holiday allowance, far better maternity leave an d pay, IIRC the instigator for a NMW, those aren’t going to just disappear.
We’ve got more chance of maintaining better wages by isolating the domestic labour market from the East Euro,let alone Turkish, one than by staying in it.While if the EU was all about workers ‘rights’ it would have imposed an EU minimum wage based on the highest denominator and the right to strike in the form of secondary action.
And that comment show how little you understand about economics. And that you are just a Russel Brand style agitator. Mwa Mwa Mwa ducky.
the nodding donkey:
Carryfast:
the nodding donkey:
Evil8Beezle:
Sorry evil, but you don’t get it. If you had a government that had the best interests of the people of this island at heart, yes, I would agree with you. But you government has only it’s own interests at heart. And will return the working people of this country to what it was like then. And let’s not bulls hit each other. What was the standard of living of the man in the street like in 1830? Or 1926? Or 1748?
How can you quote living standards from times gone by? They are simply not relevant…
As for not getting it, we have a far better chance of dictating to our lying scum politicians if we only have them to deal with, and not the ones in Brussels as well!
Why 1748 not 1960-1972.Oh wait stronger unions,higher employment,higher economic growth,trade surplus with Europe,the pound worth more and democratic control over our own government.As opposed to today.
Ahh, and what happenedafter 1972? What happened to your unionised car industry? Your unionised bus industry? Your unionised train industry? Your unionised local authorities? Your unionised coal industry? Your unionised steel industry?
We joined the zb EU although you seem to be too young to remember it.So much for ‘workers rights’ then.
Carryfast:
the nodding donkey:
And who instigated those improvements, and who endeavours to uphold them? David Cameron? Maggi Thatcher? Tony Bliar?
You do know that they were/are all Europhile PM’s.Just like Callaghan was.You know the ones who introduced wage reductions in real terms and gave uk jobs to German and East Euro workers soon to be joined by the Turks.
How much more rope do you need Russel? Stop the selective quoting.
Ahh, silly me. You can’t, because that’s all you have to prop yourself up.
the nodding donkey:
And that comment show how little you understand about economics. And that you are just a Russel Brand style agitator. Mwa Mwa Mwa ducky.
Enough about economics to know that this country’s economy has been going down the tubes since we joined the EU.
While the Socialist zb wit revolutionaries like Corbyn are actually on the in campaign side just like EU founder Communist zb Altiero Spinelli was.Remind us again which side you’re on.
the nodding donkey:
How much more rope do you need Russel? Stop the selective quoting.
Ahh, silly me. You can’t, because that’s all you have to prop yourself up.
Great keep it up it’s the Labour vote that’s going to sink you if anything can.You did say that you’re on the remain side ?. 
Carryfast:
the nodding donkey:
And that comment show how little you understand about economics. And that you are just a Russel Brand style agitator. Mwa Mwa Mwa ducky.
Enough about economics to know that this country’s economy has been going down the tubes since we joined the EU.
While the Socialist zb wit revolutionaries like Corbyn are actually on the in campaign side just like EU founder Communist zb Altiero Spinelli was.Remind us again which side you’re on.
Why? Is it not obvious? And you seem to be replacing long winded retort with course language. Are you sure you’re not a shop steward?
Carryfast:
the nodding donkey:
How much more rope do you need Russel? Stop the selective quoting.
Ahh, silly me. You can’t, because that’s all you have to prop yourself up.
Great keep it up it’s the Labour vote that’s going to sink you if anything can.You did say that you’re on the remain side ?.
No, it’s not the Labour vote. In case you had not noticed, the established political parties are split, with members of both Labour and Conservatives, on both side of the debate…
I’m undecided; my heart wants out but my head says there is too much risk. I think with an OUT vote we could be better off in 10 to 20 years time, but the short term pain could be massive, it would take a couple of years to get out and the uncertainty during that time would cause great upheaval. I’m sort of retired so it is not a big deal one way or the other to me, but if I had a half decent job, a young family and a mortgage I wouldn’t risk it (and certainly wouldn’t risk it if my job had any serious connections to he EU)
the nodding donkey:
Carryfast:
the nodding donkey:
And that comment show how little you understand about economics. And that you are just a Russel Brand style agitator. Mwa Mwa Mwa ducky.
Enough about economics to know that this country’s economy has been going down the tubes since we joined the EU.
While the Socialist zb wit revolutionaries like Corbyn are actually on the in campaign side just like EU founder Communist zb Altiero Spinelli was.Remind us again which side you’re on.
Why? Is it not obvious? And you seem to be replacing long winded retort with course language. Are you sure you’re not a shop steward?
No it’s not obvious unless you’re saying that supporting Callaghan,Thatcher,Blair and Cameron and being a union hater is your idea of workers rights. No I was never a shop steward because the Unions were smashed by Europhiles Callaghan and Thatcher after we joined the EU remember and I only started work in 1975.
the nodding donkey:
No, it’s not the Labour vote. In case you had not noticed, the established political parties are split, with members of both Labour and Conservatives, on both side of the debate…
No the Parties aren’t split from the point of view of their respective leaderships.So there we have it Cameron,Brown,Blair and Corbyn all standing together on a workers’ rights ticket. 
Carryfast:
the nodding donkey:
Carryfast:
the nodding donkey:
And that comment show how little you understand about economics. And that you are just a Russel Brand style agitator. Mwa Mwa Mwa ducky.
Enough about economics to know that this country’s economy has been going down the tubes since we joined the EU.
While the Socialist zb wit revolutionaries like Corbyn are actually on the in campaign side just like EU founder Communist zb Altiero Spinelli was.Remind us again which side you’re on.
Why? Is it not obvious? And you seem to be replacing long winded retort with course language. Are you sure you’re not a shop steward?
No it’s not obvious unless you’re saying that supporting Callaghan,Thatcher,Blair and Cameron and being a union hater is your idea of workers rights. No I was never a shop steward because the Unions were smashed by Europhiles Callaghan and Thatcher after we joined the EU remember and I only started work in 1975.
(Pssst) you seem to think I’m on side with Cameron, Maggi and Bliar? Put down that bottle, go back a few posts, and start reading again.
Bluey Circles:
I wouldn’t risk it (and certainly wouldn’t risk it if my job had any serious connections to he EU)
Not exactly the best advice for anyone with a job that’s liable to be affected by the lifting of cabotage restrictions and Turkish membership.
Which leaves the question of what about future generations liable to find themselves in the middle of a Yugoslav inter ethnic secessionist war type nightmare.
Carryfast:
Bluey Circles:
I wouldn’t risk it (and certainly wouldn’t risk it if my job had any serious connections to he EU)
Not exactly the best advice for anyone with a job that’s liable to be affected by the lifting of cabotage restrictions and Turkish membership.
Which leaves the question of what about future generations liable to find themselves in the middle of a Yugoslav inter ethnic secessionist war type nightmare.
What, like the one in the 1980’s ? And how did that effect the new romantics in Britain?
the nodding donkey:
(Pssst) you seem to think I’m on side with Cameron, Maggi and Bliar? Put down that bottle, go back a few posts, and start reading again.
If you’re not on side with Benn and Shore or Callaghan,Maggie or Blair or Corbyn or Brown or Cameron or Altieri Spinelli who’s side are you on then.Oh wait Clegg and who’s side is he on.
the nodding donkey:
Clement.
He supposedly hated Communism.So how does that fit in with your support for Italian Communist Party member Altieri Spinelli’s vision for an EUSSR in the form of the EU Federation.
Carryfast:
the nodding donkey:
Clement.
He supposedly hated Communism.So how does that fit in with your support for Italian Communist Party member Altieri Spinelli’s vision for an EUSSR in the form of the EU Federation.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
stop it now… you really are Russel Brand arn’t you? Pompous and full of waffle, but without a modicum of real knowledge. Baffled and flustered when confronted by knowledge.
Anyway Russel, I enjoyed our discussion tonight, pity you couldn’t step up to the plate really. But as I have to get up in the morning to work, I’ll bid you farEwell for tonight.