Munchkin:
In order for an economy to prosper it has to develop infrastructure as it expands obviously. In this area the government have been ■■■■ poor for a long time. They tell us how good the economy is doing but don’t invest in bricks and mortar.
This is a UK government issue, the same government we’d have if we Brexit.
The vote is EU in or out.
The vote on the ■■■■ poor government was last year remember?
Maybe you should emigrate to China it sounds like your idea of utopia to me.IE an urbanised over populated commy zb hole that hasn’t got enough decent farmland to feed itself.Although having said that their immigration policy might not be to your taste.
Munchkin:
Just annoys me that people have been fooled by the whole campaign. Brexit just seem to bang on about immigration as it seems they have nothing else to scare people with. As a country we need immigration, we are getting older, having less kids and need a supply of younger immigrants to pay the taxes and therefore our pensions should we live that long.
Ask yourselves why immigrants come here. The same reason they go to New York, L.A., Singapore, because the economy is successful and vibrant. Without people coming into the workforce bringing fresh energy and fresh ideas the economy would stagnate. Look forward 20-30 years and see how many of todays immigrants will have built successful careers and businesses, they’re not coming here to doss around and do nothing, they could do that at home!
As for the spurious argument that the unemployed could do a lot of unskilled work, veg picking, packing etc. The whole reason the foreign labour started to be used was that native workers stopped wanting to do those jobs, NOT the other way around. You’ve no chance of getting anyone off unemployment into veg picking for min wage, end of! You also can’t pay them more to do it as that would make the product uncompetitive and you’d have no business.
This is not 40 years ago this is now and that’s the reality of the world.
And when these immigrants get old, what then?
As for your argument that we need these immigrants to do the unskilled work that our natives won’t, does that mean you’re happy to leave our natives sponging off the dole? As that is basically what you are saying… What we need to do instead is get these loafers off benefits and in to work, not leave them there and prop up the system with willing migrants to do it instead! As for why we can’t pay them more, that’s because there is such a surplus of labour in this country, employers don’t have to. I don’t think those that want to leave are under the illusion that there won’t be some costs to leaving, but these should be counteracted by other benefits.
Your argument is to basically to continue in widening the gap between rich and poor!!!
Before the eastern block joined the eu, there were things like working holiday visas. Meaning Aussies and South Africans etc did low paid unskilled jobs. The eu no longer allows such visas. Jobs like fruit picking paid £6.50 an hour, which is worth about £9-10 in today’s money, then all of a sudden the wages contracted by around 30% due to a surplus in labour.
The only reason indigenous Brits won’t do the jobs now, is they can’t afford to. They have families to support. Could anyone here honestly say they could run their current house and support their family on £288 a week gross? That job in the eastern block pays around £90 per week. They send nearly double that back home every week and live like peasants, on a pittance. They can afford to undercut us.
I’m not anti immigration, I’m anti unskilled, unchecked, uncontrolled immigration. I find it wrong that we can’t allow Aussie doctors, or Indian engineers in, but bring as many Romanian car washers and Latvian fruit pickers as you like. It’s not being a racist, it’s being a realist. To say we control our borders because we’re outside the Schengen Agreement is absolute crap. All we do is a quick glance to make sure the person resembles the picture they hold. There’s no check on who they are, why they’re here or how long they intend to stay.
To say it’s racist, wrong or unrealistic to take back control of our borders is just not true. To say Nigel Farage is a racist is simply absurd. The guy has a German wife, and stands to lose his job on exit of the eu. That’s not a guy with a racist agenda in my book.
And when these immigrants get old, what then?
As for your argument that we need these immigrants to do the unskilled work that our natives won’t, does that mean you’re happy to leave our natives sponging off the dole? As that is basically what you are saying… What we need to do instead is get these loafers off benefits and in to work, not leave them there and prop up the system with willing migrants to do it instead! As for why we can’t pay them more, that’s because there is such a surplus of labour in this country, employers don’t have to. I don’t think those that want to leave are under the illusion that there won’t be some costs to leaving, but these should be counteracted by other benefits.
Your argument is to basically to continue in widening the gap between rich and poor!!!
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No, I’m very unhappy about our unemployed scrounging off the dole but that is the way our government have made it, not the EU !
If a farmer in say Lincs pays more to have his veg picked/packed then the wholesale price will go up. trade being what it is the buyers will then source their veg from abroad cheaper. your argument would only work if we were an island economically as well as physically.
As for wanting the rich/poor gap to widen you’re well off the mark there. I want it to narrow considerably but don’t see how leaving the EU will make a bit of difference to that.
Munchkin:
In order for an economy to prosper it has to develop infrastructure as it expands obviously. In this area the government have been ■■■■ poor for a long time. They tell us how good the economy is doing but don’t invest in bricks and mortar.
This is a UK government issue, the same government we’d have if we Brexit.
The vote is EU in or out.
The vote on the ■■■■ poor government was last year remember?
Maybe you should emigrate to China it sounds like your idea of utopia to me.IE an urbanised over populated commy zb hole that hasn’t got enough decent farmland to feed itself.Although having said that their immigration policy might not be to your taste.
carryfast, I’ve had enough of your insults and over-engineered misunderstanding of what I’m actually saying so I’ll not be replying to any of your future posts.
Munchkin:
No, I’m very unhappy about our unemployed scrounging off the dole but that is the way our government have made it, not the EU !
If a farmer in say Lincs pays more to have his veg picked/packed then the wholesale price will go up. trade being what it is the buyers will then source their veg from abroad cheaper. your argument would only work if we were an island economically as well as physically.
As for wanting the rich/poor gap to widen you’re well off the mark there. I want it to narrow considerably but don’t see how leaving the EU will make a bit of difference to that.
Do you not think that if most people were not better off working than on the dole, they would work?
Yes you will get the scumbags that won’t, but the model/pay as is does nothing to promote the unskilled to work…
I’d happily pay an extra 10 or 20% for my veggies etc if my pay packet compensated for it.
Do you not think that our own farmers/industries should have a competitive advantage over imports? Or are you happy to continue to make us dependent on others, which equates to them having us by the balls!
So how will the gap between rich and poor narrow if we stay in the EU, as the evidence so far contradicts that…
As for ending up an island economically, what’s wrong with that to a degree? Trade will always occurs, as we have things that others don’t, and visa versa. Plus we can set up our own trade deals globally. Do you really believe that if we vote out we will be completely isolated and no one will want to deal/trade with us? Will those outside not want a slice of our markets and sell us goods & services■■?
The reason our economy doesn’t do better is because we’re locked to the eu. We can’t have a free trade agreement with emerging markets as our trade is controlled by Brussels. And while we can’t compete with eastern block wages, we do quite well with our non eu exports. Imagine what we can achieve if we remove the shackles.
EB I actually agree with most of what you say just that I feel global economics will come into play more than you’d like to think.
If we’d all be happy to pay a bit more for UK stuff we’d still have a large textile industry, for instance. The fact we don’t have tells the truth that we won’t actually pay more!
It’s the government policy that makes it more profitable for a lot of people to be workshy. It should not be so but that’s a UK govt issue.
I’m not anti UK I just see it differently from you Brexit guys. My choice is in, yours is out.
The decline of manufacturing is down to capitalist Plc moving production abroad and the consumer not realising where the product originates. Most people think goods are made in the rdc on the edge of town.
OVLOV JAY:
Before the eastern block joined the eu, there were things like working holiday visas. Meaning Aussies and South Africans etc did low paid unskilled jobs. The eu no longer allows such visas.
OVLOV JAY:
The decline of manufacturing is down to capitalist Plc moving production abroad and the consumer not realising where the product originates. Most people think goods are made in the rdc on the edge of town.
Along with the import taxes/polices made by our government/s that didn’t protect our own interests & workers…
Munchkin:
EB I actually agree with most of what you say just that I feel global economics will come into play more than you’d like to think.
If we’d all be happy to pay a bit more for UK stuff we’d still have a large textile industry, for instance. The fact we don’t have tells the truth that we won’t actually pay more!
It’s the government policy that makes it more profitable for a lot of people to be workshy. It should not be so but that’s a UK govt issue.
I’m not anti UK I just see it differently from you Brexit guys. My choice is in, yours is out.
Sent from my X17 using Tapatalk
Fair enough mate, lets see who’s buying the beers post Thursday…
For a change I hope it’s me!
OVLOV JAY:
Before the eastern block joined the eu, there were things like working holiday visas. Meaning Aussies and South Africans etc did low paid unskilled jobs. The eu no longer allows such visas.
No a civilised debate would at least require you to provide an honest answer as to where you stand on Federation v Nation and why and your definition of so called ‘left’ bearing in mind that you seem to regard anyone on the Nationalist side of the ‘debate’ as so called ‘right’.
OVLOV JAY:
The decline of manufacturing is down to capitalist Plc moving production abroad and the consumer not realising where the product originates. Most people think goods are made in the rdc on the edge of town.
Along with the import taxes/polices made by our government/s that didn’t protect our own interests & workers…
‘Capitalist’ as though Soviet Socialist is better.
The fact is we aren’t going to get the required import tarrifs that we need to get our trade figures closer to balance than deficit,while we remain lumbered with a trading ‘relationship’ which is effectively a foreign aid scam to benefit the EU.To which the remainers answer is ever more EU and ever more free movement,of ever more labour,adding ever more supply,to our ever reducing labour market,because of our ever increasing trade deficit.
If we stay a main player in the EU . Why don’t we go all the way .and pick the whole of the country up . and plonk it right in the middle of all these other well run European countries.and be a massive Spong to soak up all the poor immigrants who are clambering to get to this great country… Because if we remain . This is basically what is gong to happen . We need to have faith in our country. Not disrespect it. If this is how you feel and want to remain. Sod off and GO. We are not keeping you people here.
OVLOV JAY:
The reason our economy doesn’t do better is because we’re locked to the eu. We can’t have a free trade agreement with emerging markets as our trade is controlled by Brussels. And while we can’t compete with eastern block wages, we do quite well with our non eu exports. Imagine what we can achieve if we remove the shackles.
You are dreaming, you will never get favorable trade agreement with China,US, Mercosur etc. You will be to small and unattractive(economically speaking) to negotiate such a deal. Considering the fact that you will be in a hurry as well.
I simply don’t see you heaving upper hand in any trade negotiations with the rest of the world.
OVLOV JAY:
The reason our economy doesn’t do better is because we’re locked to the eu. We can’t have a free trade agreement with emerging markets as our trade is controlled by Brussels. And while we can’t compete with eastern block wages, we do quite well with our non eu exports. Imagine what we can achieve if we remove the shackles.
You are dreaming, you will never get favorable trade agreement with China,US, Mercosur etc. You will be to small and unattractive(economically speaking) to negotiate such a deal. Considering the fact that you will be in a hurry as well.
I simply don’t see you heaving upper hand in any trade negotiations with the rest of the world.
You’ve spectacularly missed the point. Small independent countries don’t need agreements. The only reason the likes of Norway, Greenland and Switzerland has them is so the eu can’t take advantage of them, as they are net exporters in, not out as we are. And if we were signing trade deals with China, India and Brazil etc, why do you think they would refuse a deal where there’s no tariffs on our exports
