The eu referendum- how do you intend to vote?

alicks77:
What laws have had a detrimental effect on our lives?

Without checking I really don’t know which laws have been enshrined so it would be unfair and inaccurate for me to comment. However if we talk about European court rulings which have had a detrimental effect to Britain and its populace then I suspect that this thread could run into many more pages! Examples such as the Romanian child ■■■■■■ whom we could not deport to his homeland as it breached his human rights. The Afghan hijackers who were allowed to settle in this country so as not to infringe their civil liberties!

I suspect that the ones that we hear of are merely the tip of the unwelcome iceberg.

del trotter:
What is the uncomfortable truths you refer to?

Where did I say it was lies, you guys really are coming across as paranoid.

The fact that 72 times the UK objected and were over-ruled means nothing unless it is context with how many times the other members were in a similar position, 72 may be a very low figure or a very high figure but who knows with nothing to compare it against.

Like I said, it wasn’t all aimed at you. However, your post came across as though you rubbished the fact that even if we oppose eu votes, we get told to go along for the ride anyway. The fact is, the eu does as the eu wants, and nobody will get in the way of it. That’s not paranoia, that’s just a simple truth. We voted no 72 times in 43 years of membership, and were overruled 100% of the time. I don’t care how many times any other state has been in that situation, there’s no need for comparison, it’s about our membership, our lack of sovereignty and democracy within said membership.

the maoster:

alicks77:
What laws have had a detrimental effect on our lives?

Without checking I really don’t know which laws have been enshrined so it would be unfair and inaccurate for me to comment. However if we talk about European court rulings which have had a detrimental effect to Britain and its populace then I suspect that this thread could run into many more pages! Examples such as the Romanian child ■■■■■■ whom we could not deport to his homeland as it breached his human rights. The Afghan hijackers who were allowed to settle in this country so as not to infringe their civil liberties!

I suspect that the ones that we hear of are merely the tip of the unwelcome iceberg.

All those judgements which I agree are wrong were made by British judges in uk courts, the EU didn’t make us accept that. The human rights act which is british law has a clause that says a judge can overrule the act if they think it will cause political, social or financial issues. Every other country in EU uses this.

The guy with hooks for hands for instance. It was uk gov that took it to EU court because British court would not allow her to deport him. Human right act has helped far more people than you can imagine, you only hear about when a criminal try to use it.

Juddian:
Snowman, personally i don’t reckon Boris either, he puts his mouth where the money is.

Chris Grayling might be a steady hand on the tiller in the meantime, i notice Mrs May has been keeping a low profile during the last few weeks, be interesting to see if she comes out on the outside should it become obvious a leave win has it…mind you it wouldn’t surprise me if Slippery Dave comes out with the old ‘‘i was playing devils advocate’’ routine soon as the polls close…and i don’t believe he necessarily has to go either, he’s utterly unprincipled and immoral buit that’s hardly unusual in front line politics.
I wouldn’t put anything past these career politicians…i’m especially disgusted at Corbyn who has always been sceptical of the EU in the Wedgie Benn camp school of thought all the years he’s been a back bencher, another sell out, i had given him the benefit of the doubt in the hope we might see the return of some principles in the labour front ranks, yeah right.

In all honesty if the whole of the front benches of both main parties ■■■■■■ off it wouldn’t be a bad thing, we desperately need some firm leadership over the next couple of decades, and thats the case whether we stay or leave.

We’ve got a £1.5 Trillion national debt and still growing, both NuLab and the modern Tories have proved over the last 20 years that neither can be trusted with the running of the country, we have to stop voting for the least worst option (at best) or for the one who promises to give us more of our own money borrowed in our grandchildrens name.
If the politicians lack honour and integrity it doesn’t mean we have to follow their poor example, we have a choice.

Time for the nation to grow up a bit and realise that ■■■■■■■ borrowed money up the wall of the last 3 decades has got to end.

Sorry Juddian, missed this post yesterday.
Thanks

We’ll have to agree to disagree on this Alicks. I have a hard enough time contending with the out of touch rulings of our own geriatric and out of touch judiciary without also dealing with the aftermath of a judgement passed by a Belgian in Strasbourg.

A lot of the problems with eu and the human rights act is we follow them to the letter whereas other anions do what suits them.
I do worry about loosing certain safeguarded rights and the human rights charter does a lot of good despite what the sun and mail tell us while the current shower are in charge.
However at least we can vote them out if we ever get an electable labour party again.
If it was a pre eastern block eu I would vote remain but the current eu is a mockery.

A lot of the problems with eu and the human rights act is we follow them to the letter whereas other anions do what suits them.
I do worry about loosing certain safeguarded rights and the human rights charter does a lot of good despite what the sun and mail tell us while the current shower are in charge.
However at least we can vote them out if we ever get an electable labour party again.
If it was a pre eastern block eu I would vote remain but the current eu is a mockery.

kr79:
A lot of the problems with eu and the human rights act is we follow them to the letter whereas other anions do what suits them.
I do worry about loosing certain safeguarded rights and the human rights charter does a lot of good despite what the sun and mail tell us while the current shower are in charge.
However at least we can vote them out if we ever get an electable labour party again.
If it was a pre eastern block eu I would vote remain but the current eu is a mockery.

That’s what I have been saying, most EU countries don’t enforce the rules they don’t like. We do then complain about it. Also every government has put rules through then blamed the eu.

I beleive the pros out weigh the cons of the EU.

del trotter:

OVLOV JAY:
We’ve been defeated 72 times out of 72 objections, including how much uk tax payers have to contribute to the union. In the underworld the union would be called a protection racquet. Admittedly those 72 defeats are only 2 % of the votes cast, but it does smack of you’re either with us, or we’re doing it anyway

That means nothing unless you can supply figures for how many times Germany for example or any other member state voted against a proposal and it was still passed, talk about clutching at straws.

In case you didn’t notice we’re talking about how many times the ‘UK’ was defeated by the ‘EU’ concerning ‘EU’ laws imposed ‘here’ . :unamused:

Bluey Circles:
One thing that concerns me about staying in; For the last few decades we have been thought of as quite an unhappy member of the EU, always complaining and being a general thorn in their sides on many issues, but as a massive economy we are of huge importance to them, as such they have always treated us with kid gloves not wanting to upset us any further. I now worry that a ‘remain’ vote will show us to be an enthusiastic member longing for more integration.

As I see it a vote to remain in the EU gives a green light to the Apparatchiks within the EU to forge ahead with all their plans, able to dismiss any further arguments from the UK with ease. You voted IN so now you’re part of the club - warts and all! and any dissention by the UK will be sidelined even more than it is now.

the nodding donkey:
Unlike the frothing brexiteers, I to note the sarcasm in your post, and I share your feelings. The current, and next, tory government (god forbid) will return this country to the 1950’s.
No doubt we will see now the usual posts of “good, life was better then” etc, but the world is very different today. There is no big, wealth (tax and revenue ) creating industry left. There is no empire to exploit.
brexiteers are giving this country away to Dave and George, to sell it of to their mates.
As for my personal situation, I have 25 years of National insurance contributions at stake. I consider this country to be my home now. I have children here. I don’t want this country to return to the forelock tugging days of yore. Don’t forget that in the 50’s you either had a job, or you didn’t. 0 hours contracts did not yet exist. If we leave Europe, and it’s workers rights protection, the Tory government will see to it that Sports direct will be an example of good working practices. …

Maggie will be proud. Dave is just about to finish what she started…

Oh wait zero hours contracts are much better than the high employment and wages and union strength and economic growth of the early 1970’s.

The irony of Europhiles using Europhile Maggie’s attacks on the working class after around 10 years as an EU member state to make the case for the EU. :unamused: While in case you didn’t notice,like Maggie,Dave and Co are actually on the remain side unlike Kate Hoey and the RMT and ASLEF. :unamused:

pbs.twimg.com/media/CGxAPvtXIAEMrYG.jpg

The BBC at their usual unbiased best.

youtu.be/32DCmI0GAJU

Pro-Remain minister Ed Vaizey repeatedly dodged Andrew Neil’s question about which, if any, economists think Osborne’s tax-hiking spending-slashing post-Brexit budget would work. Vaizey then launched a bizarre attack on Remain backing IMF’s economic credibility:

“You know full well over the last six years when George took decisions about cutting spending and raising taxes organisations like the IMF told him he was playing with fire”

At times Vaizey was literally laughing at the less than credible lines he was sent out to spin.

Carryfast:

del trotter:

OVLOV JAY:
We’ve been defeated 72 times out of 72 objections, including how much uk tax payers have to contribute to the union. In the underworld the union would be called a protection racquet. Admittedly those 72 defeats are only 2 % of the votes cast, but it does smack of you’re either with us, or we’re doing it anyway

That means nothing unless you can supply figures for how many times Germany for example or any other member state voted against a proposal and it was still passed, talk about clutching at straws.

In case you didn’t notice we’re talking about how many times the ‘UK’ was defeated by the ‘EU’ concerning ‘EU’ laws imposed ‘here’ . :unamused:

Which means nothing in isolation, but then intelligent debate wouldn’t suit your agenda. :unamused:

del trotter:

Carryfast:
In case you didn’t notice we’re talking about how many times the ‘UK’ was defeated by the ‘EU’ concerning ‘EU’ laws imposed ‘here’ . :unamused:

Which means nothing in isolation, but then intelligent debate wouldn’t suit your agenda. :unamused:

How does being defeated by Federal rule,imposed on your own country,against that country’s own elected representatives vote, mean nothing.‘Unless’ that is you don’t believe in democracy and the idea of the Nation State.In which case your agenda is obvious.While I could call the remain side a bunch of Socialist zb wits in that regard if we must bring the question of the intelligence of either side into the debate.

It’s all about if people want to gamble, or want to stick on a 12… If you don’t stick on a 12 - the next card can bust you for sure, so the only way to not lose “right now” is to stand where you are, and vote Remain.
Trouble is, there ARE guaranteed losses caused by “not changing anything” if we do the remain thing. Our contributions are likely to increase in the future, we do NOT get out of “future bailouts” - because we’re already balls-deep into a bailout deal with all the relevant countries ALREADY as an ongoing thing. The only ones we’d be getting out of - are if Madagascar applies to join the EU in the near future - not as daft as it sounds, when you think Australia and Russia are involved in both the Euro 16 cup and the Eurovision song contest… The result being rigged in the latter so that Ukraine could make a public spectacle of beating “Hated Russia”…

On the Leave side - none of the downside is guaranteed - but neither is the upside. The upside guarantees have been “removed” by the threats from both foreign commissioners AND our own government.
Emergency budget? - Cuts cuts cuts promised? WHY? Honestly Cameron & Osbourne should be sent to the tower for even suggesting that “there will be no money whatseover - because £350m a week being a lie means ANY surplus to spend is also a lie…” I don’t buy that at all. The actual amount could be £349,999,999 per week - and the statement “£350m a week is a porker” cannot be overtuned as yet…
We should stop talking about “unknowns” outright (not Donald Rumsfeld style either!)

What IS guaranteed but no one seems to be talking about - is that there WILL be a surplus of SOME Kind. We pay the EU more than we get out - even including their “donations” to the arts, academia, etc. plus the so-called “Rebate” on top. We net lose money to the EU. Its a 100% FACT - but it’s only UKIP banging on about it, when it should be Boris… Too many people are shooting down Boris all the time with his good, but incomplete arguments - and not putting Farage up to explain why his facts are facts… He could start with the fact that he’s been “more correct in his prior “considered to be speculations” facts more often than anyone else since the very beginning”…

Since Boris is Current Government - any arguments that “He’s not in a position to alter government policy with open-ended spending promises” which is like saying "You cannot vote Labour because Labour cannot be the next government - and they won’t be if you think that’s a valid argument for not voting Labour!"

Ya-boo politics at it’s worst…
“They are crappier than us… Vote for Us.”
“That’s not true - you can’t prove it - they lied - vote against “US” instead by voting for WE.”

The EU say we cannot re-implement our old trading routes as we had when we had an Empire on which the sun never sets…
There’s NO rule on planet Earth that says "You cannot have more ocean-based trade routes - because you used to be an Empire which WE are ashamed of FOR you…
Listen to those with an interest in seeing Britain fail - and you’d think that “The Second Reich” was indeed the predecessor to Hitler’s Third Reich as he originally described it himself by even using such labels…

It is not against international law to set up new trade routes with any country not under embargo that you choose. It breaches NO Human rights of any kind. No one has a Lawful right to steal from Britain’s interest at any time. Once OUT of the EU, they have the option of trading with us or not. If they say no, or hurl us an insulting deal - we can go elsewhere. THEY cannot! For the EU - It’s “Bite your tongue with Britain - or go without!”

Once the wider world realizes this - the Euro will rapidly lose ground against the Pound - and will accelerate the EU’s decline as a “failed big government project”.
They’ll not be able to even bribe us to stay by this point, as we should wisely request that all bribes and deals offered to us be made in Sterling or USD - since the Euro currency is already sinking so fast… Perhaps we should avoid demanding payments in Gold as was done during the 1920’s weimar default that led to the hyper-inflation in Germany - and onto the Rise of Hitler…

The pound is up against the Euro today. Who’s talking about THAT? - You only hear about the “Down days” on the remain-biased Media alas… The pound has not actually moved that much in the past YEAR if this chart is anything to go by - near the bottom still, but not breaking down into “new multi-year lows”…

Let’s vote according to what our own people can DO and what they can stop foreign minsters from “doing to us”.

“Take our country back” sounds about right. There’s just too few of us that gain from being in the EU, and too many of us that WOULD gain - if only we could get the gloves off of our own weak and ineffective government.
We were never supposed to be a vassal state to some other faceless, un=elected power. That’s what would have happened if we’d lost the war FFS… :frowning:

The-Snowman:

Juddian:
Snowman, personally i don’t reckon Boris either, he puts his mouth where the money is.

Chris Grayling might be a steady hand on the tiller in the meantime, i notice Mrs May has been keeping a low profile during the last few weeks, be interesting to see if she comes out on the outside should it become obvious a leave win has it…mind you it wouldn’t surprise me if Slippery Dave comes out with the old ‘‘i was playing devils advocate’’ routine soon as the polls close…and i don’t believe he necessarily has to go either, he’s utterly unprincipled and immoral buit that’s hardly unusual in front line politics.
I wouldn’t put anything past these career politicians…i’m especially disgusted at Corbyn who has always been sceptical of the EU in the Wedgie Benn camp school of thought all the years he’s been a back bencher, another sell out, i had given him the benefit of the doubt in the hope we might see the return of some principles in the labour front ranks, yeah right.

In all honesty if the whole of the front benches of both main parties ■■■■■■ off it wouldn’t be a bad thing, we desperately need some firm leadership over the next couple of decades, and thats the case whether we stay or leave.

We’ve got a £1.5 Trillion national debt and still growing, both NuLab and the modern Tories have proved over the last 20 years that neither can be trusted with the running of the country, we have to stop voting for the least worst option (at best) or for the one who promises to give us more of our own money borrowed in our grandchildrens name.
If the politicians lack honour and integrity it doesn’t mean we have to follow their poor example, we have a choice.

Time for the nation to grow up a bit and realise that ■■■■■■■ borrowed money up the wall of the last 3 decades has got to end.

Sorry Juddian, missed this post yesterday.
Thanks

Doya need a running mate Juddian? :smiley:

I can only add to your post in that imho - money nicked from the taxpayer in the form of “Offsets” - is as bad as borrowing it from society itself - and automatically not paying it back…

Why should some git who doesn’t earn much more than me - get to buy and run a 4x4 on tax expense claims when I have to stick to old bangers to make ends meet - because I pay entirely for my own way?

Stop the tax claims. DOWN with the accountancy industry!

Vote Beaver.jpg

I’ve listened to no tv or radio debate on the referendum and have simply binned all junk mail from both camps juat like I do at election time with Labour and Green party rubbish.The only exception was sending back that government propaganda booklet back.
I’m voting leave purely for my own reasons. I have no concern for immigrants, refugees, and human rights crap which lets religious nutters peddle their fairy tale filth and stops you calling a spade a spade.

Please tell me nobody is falling for the emergency budget tripe :open_mouth: Even ww3 was more believable :unamused:

OVLOV JAY:
Please tell me nobody is falling for the emergency budget tripe :open_mouth: Even ww3 was more believable :unamused:

Of course we’ll need a budget!
The Brexit bunch would need to be kept informed where all the extra hospitals, schools and public housing will be built with the EU money saved.