The LGV industry now seems to be following the path of the “Automated” Manual (semi-automatic, clutchless manual) gearbox due to the fact it saves weight, driver concentration and fuel!
Can you see manual gearboxes being cast into the history books, especially with MAN and Iveco now supplying the ZF AS Tronic (sold as the TipMatic and EuroTronic respectivly) transmission as standard across most of their ranges with a manual gearbox option no longer available?
Personally I can see it happening, as Buses have not had clutch pedals for almost 40 years and these AMTs will be snapped up by Coach companies on the double, so I can even see the PCV industry not having any clutch pedals soon as well!
A coach company I have recently applied to join has just gone fully automated/automatic, they now either have ZF fully automatic or Volvo I-Shift transmissions - so they can now take on potential applicants with Automatics only driving licences (Restriction Code: 78).
Give it 20 years and I think we will see the end of the “stick shift”. With the progress being made to auto cars where the very modern ones only have D and not D 1 2 3 4 as they used to because of 6 speed gearboxes and not 3, I think it is a good thing. Trucks & buses, in my view, have been leading the field in the progression of autos with the majority of manufacturers now advising that you leave the auto box to do its job without the intervention of the driver.
So, in 20 years the DDC debate will be null & void
Personally after driving Auto trucks for so long , I find that If I get a vehicle with a manual box it is ever such a chore and a right pain having to bugger about with something so trivial as changing gear
i have never driven a lgv with a manual gearbox on the road but after been only taught on semi automatics to pass my test and then been given a brand new MAN with a 4 speed fully auto box on the bus,all i can say is i wish it had the semi automatic that i was trained on as the MAN gearbox seems to have a mind of its own,it wants to change up at the slightest whim and no matter what i have done ie trying to drop the speed to make it change down so i have better pulling power when i need it ,i give up,
thought it might be the way i am driving it but it seems that the older hands have the same trouble,
The Lyonator:
Personally I can see it happening, as Buses have not had clutch pedals for almost 40 years and these AMTs will be snapped up by Coach companies on the double, so I can even see the PCV industry not having any clutch pedals soon as well!
A coach company I have recently applied to join has just gone fully automated/automatic, they now either have ZF fully automatic or Volvo I-Shift transmissions - so they can now take on potential applicants with Automatics only driving licences
Depends on your point of view. Your PSV All Types licence is either going to be redundant, just a stick you can use to put someone with only a ‘Mickey Mouse’ licence in his place -
or an asset you can use that few other people have.
I will admit that I prefer to drive a manual when I’m tired (i.e. Early turns) because the gearbox itself keeps you awake as otherwise you’ll be in the wrong gear or slipping backwards on an uphill start!
You do have to admit though, that an AMT will probably assist a new-starter such as myself quite a lot. On July 12th I went down to Cheshire’s Lymm Truck Stop as the Iveco Stralis was available for test-driving. Given mind that I hadn’t driven a C+E (Class 1) for 3 months flat - the last time was just after getting my Pass Certificate from Southampton LGV Test Centre in Botley on April 12th.
Drove the truck with 4 Tonnes of ballast in the trailer, again not driven a trailer before that’s laden! The AMT made me look like a seasoned driver in respect of gear-changing, pull-aways and stopping! It made me able to concentrate on what to do, drive it!
I’m not afraid to admit that although I’ve now got my C+E licence (in addition to my D+E due to the upgrade rules), I’d have no idea what to do if I got into a sticky situation…especially if I had to use that Reverse gear! It’s a scary world when reversing with a trailer of ANY kind!
I was brought up driving manual boxes, from 6-speed David-Browns, through 9 and 13-speed Roadrangers, Twin-Splitters and various synchromesh boxes to the early Merc EPS boxes. Recently I’ve been getting the opportunity to drive the modern AMT boxes in Mercs, Ivecos and most recently Dafs.
The AMT in the Daf was excellent. It changed very smoothly, made intelligent changes both laden and unladen and really was simple to use. Although it is apparently the same 'box as the Iveco, it was programmed as a 12 speed and worked much better, integratng well with the engine brake. In the past with autos, I’ve tended to initially use fully automatic mode whilst I’ve settled into the vehicle and got used to how it handled, then switched to manual control as I’ve usually felt I could do better selecting the gears myself, only reverting to auto in town or busy traffic. With the Daf, after a very brief period of manual selection, I decided to just leave it to sort things out itself, only intervening when I was off-road at the tip.
I agree, that if things continue, there will be many drivers who will never have driven anything but AMTs. Operators will enjoy the lower fuel and maintenance bills, Drivers will have less demands on them allowing them to concentrate on the rest of the driving requirements, Manufacturers will be able to design cabs without huge levers and lighter 'boxes as the need for heavy synchro’s is removed by electronics which make better changes than the most experienced drivers ever could.
I think even the gearstick will disappear soon and we will be driving formula one style with all the controls on paddles in the steering wheel.
Health and Safety zealots are already jumping on the bandwagon so you cant eat a sandwich or light a ■■■ at the wheel because you took your hands off it.
Eventually some health and safety bod will decide that it is too dangerous to climb up the steps into a truck cab and they will be banned completely
The day my trusty DAF with its 4 over 4 manual box goes will be a very sad day for me, I love having a manual box as I always feel in total control and like I’m actually driving the vehicle. I know I’ll get used to an auto box, I just dont want to.
eldor:
The day my trusty DAF with its 4 over 4 manual box goes will be a very sad day for me, I love having a manual box as I always feel in total control and like I’m actually driving the vehicle. I know I’ll get used to an auto box, I just dont want to.
I said exactly the same thing when they flew me out to Amsterdam to collect my new Volvo.
If they tried to take it away from me now after 2 years they better have some handy lads and a couple of big rottweilers to stop me
having just completed a week in a auto ,i find that you aint so knackered at the end of the day,but then when i get in the car almost stalled the bloody thing.
Wheel Nut:
Health and Safety zealots are already jumping on the bandwagon so you cant eat a sandwich or light a ■■■ at the wheel because you took your hands off it.
If a woman in the US of A can get $5m compo because she didn’t understand that if the vehicle had cruise she still had to be behind the wheel, with modern lorries having cruise, auto-box, trackers, sat-nav etc the only thing I’ve got left to do is get the flask out whilst reading the paper
I counted the clutch presses on an EPS Actross with a very light trailer from Seaforth dock gates(Liverpool) to the the M58 in quiet traffic on a saturday morning: 40
I reckon you could close on double that with a heavy trailer and heavy traffic.
Driveroneuk:
I counted the clutch presses on an EPS Actross with a very light trailer from Seaforth dock gates(Liverpool) to the the M58 in quiet traffic on a saturday morning: 40
I reckon you could close on double that with a heavy trailer and heavy traffic.
Dont bring EPS into this thread, phhh, (Spits on floor)
You can trust the Germans to complicate the issue. An auto box with a clutch and a BMW motorcycle with 2 indicator switches
The only auto’s I have driven are the volvo and MAN.Both were utter cack,slow,not very intuitive,and the MAN was nearly suicidal on roundabouts,changing gear when completely unnecessary.I found myself shouting at the thing at various stages on the trip.
The volvo was better,but I still think manual allows more control,especially when you come to tankers.I think they are a pain in the derriere when they try to cope with the surge/pull of liquid.
monkeynuts:
The only auto’s I have driven are the volvo and MAN.Both were utter cack,slow,not very intuitive,and the MAN was nearly suicidal on roundabouts,changing gear when completely unnecessary.I found myself shouting at the thing at various stages on the trip.
The volvo was better,but I still think manual allows more control,especially when you come to tankers.I think they are a pain in the derriere when they try to cope with the surge/pull of liquid.
I totally disagree with the point about tankers. Even with a slack load mine has never got the wrong gear. It pulls smoothly through the box and never seems to make a mistake.
I remember driving a Scania Auto in about 1985, now that was cack, it just gave up with the swill
Stanley Knife:
If a woman in the US of A can get $5m compo because she didn’t understand that if the vehicle had cruise she still had to be behind the wheel
That’s an urban legend.
On the original topic, though, I think that if AMT is going to replace manual, they need to sort out the low speed, high torque manouevring problem - e.g. moving a loaded trailer at sharp angles.
Plus, I really dislike the way that it slows you down when you try to pull out into a gap e.g. at roundabouts.
,i give up,
. 
