I can’t find anything to answer this question, so to settle an argument in our depot we’ll put the countries mightiest minds on the job
If I extend my driving to 10 hours in one day, do I have to take a further 45 min break at the end of 9 hours even if I have had enough breaks before. As an example -
4.5 hours driving - 45 mins break - 1 hour driving - 45 mins break - 4.5 hours driving - end of shift.
One of our driviers insists that you can only drive 3.5 hours after the 1 hour and break, and must take another 45 mins before you go over the 9 hour total for the day.
The VO (EWG) 3820/85 say: you can drive 10 hours two times per week, but: your first brake (after max. 4,5 hours driving) may by not shorter, then 45 min, your second brake (after max the second 4,5 hours driving) - 1,5 hours. You can also cut your break INSIDE your 4,5 hours driving, but the “cuted” breaks may be not shorter, then 15 minutes! If you want to read it - please, download it from Truckerhome; there it´s posted as file (under “Downloads”)
Stempi
I read through the legislation you mentioned, via your website (and it was hard work!!) but I didn’t see anything to quantify what you said about the second break being 1.5 hrs. The following text is all I found about breaks:
SECTION V
Breaks and rest periods
Article 7
After four-and-a-half hours’ driving, the driver shall observe a break of at least 45 minutes, unless he begins a rest period.
This break may be replaced by breaks of at least 15 minutes each distributed over the driving period or immediately after this period in such a way as to comply with the provisions of paragraph 1.
I have always thought that one of the ‘gaps’ in the drivers hours legislation was that the 4½ hours driving should be based on a rolling period i.e. after every 4½ hours driving you must have 45 mins break.
As it stands at the moment the following example is legal:
driving 5 mins
break 30 mins *
driving 4h 25 mins
break 15 mins (total break now 45 mins, thus ‘re-setting’ the driving time clock)
driving 4h 30 mins *
What I think is wrong is that from the end of the 30 min break to the end of the second 4½ hr driving period there has actually been 8h 55 mins of driving with only 15 mins break.
Although you could say that this example is somewhat extreme, it is legal which has got to be wrong.
Provided it is less the 4.5 hours it doesn’t matter what period of time you drive for, once you have completed a 45 minutes break you are onto your next 4.5 hours period. So it is possible to drive for a period longer then 4.5 hours with only a 15min break between them, because you are spliting 2 periods of driving. It’s mad but it’s what we have got.
And in the early days it was taken to mean a ‘rolling’ period, but the decision of the European Court of Justice in December 1993 changed that. Hence we have a theoretical scenario such as you have outlined.
Would I do it? No way. It may be legal, but in no way would it be sensible. Should an accident result, then it could result in a conviction for Reckless/Dangerous Driving on the basis that no person could maintain a sufficient level of concentration throughout the periods detailed whilst taking only statutory breaks. It would mainly be determined by the times of day/night, the roads used, and the volume of other vehicles.
It’s easy to blame the Judges but, legislative architects are paid a huge salary to get things right, and here they didn’t. Which typifies the EU as a whole.
Theres alot to be said for British Domestic Hours. Much simpler, used to able to run from Reading to Plymouth and back again inside of 8 hours without any breaks (and get paid 12hrs).
Krankee:
Would I do it? No way. It may be legal, but in no way would it be sensible… no person could maintain a sufficient level of concentration throughout the periods detailed whilst taking only statutory breaks.
To be honest Krankee, in 16 years of holding a vocational licence I have only ever driven the maximum permissable in one hit (4½ hrs), once! I still haven’t been in a truck that was comfy enough to do it more often and on top of that, I much prefer to drive a couple of hours then use part of my break and then drive some more.
I believe that is now the advice the government are giving as well. When we do our route plans, irrespective of how far or for how long, we always factor-in breaks at 2 - 2½ hrs. If you can’t get there in one day - tuff!! It’s a two day job then!!
I read through the legislation you mentioned, via your website (and it was hard work!!) but I didn’t see anything to quantify what you said about the second break being 1.5 hrs. The following text is all I found about breaks:
SECTION V
Breaks and rest periods
Article 7
After four-and-a-half hours’ driving, the driver shall observe a break of at least 45 minutes, unless he begins a rest period.
This break may be replaced by breaks of at least 15 minutes each distributed over the driving period or immediately after this period in such a way as to comply with the provisions of paragraph 1.
I have always thought that one of the ‘gaps’ in the drivers hours legislation was that the 4½ hours driving should be based on a rolling period i.e. after every 4½ hours driving you must have 45 mins break.
As it stands at the moment the following example is legal:
driving 5 mins
break 30 mins *
driving 4h 25 mins
break 15 mins (total break now 45 mins, thus ‘re-setting’ the driving time clock)
driving 4h 30 mins *
What I think is wrong is that from the end of the 30 min break to the end of the second 4½ hr driving period there has actually been 8h 55 mins of driving with only 15 mins break.
Although you could say that this example is somewhat extreme, it is legal which has got to be wrong.
I actually rang Vosa to see what they had to say, and their expert quoted the same possibility. As he said; not to be recommended, but technically legal.
He also confirmed what you all have regarding the 10 hour extended drive, and advised me to put at least a tenner on it next time! Even men from the ministry can be human
gardun,
tell that driver to go away and learn the tacho regs, and as he is arguing a stupid debate he proberly doesnt know much about anything else to do with transport and driving.
His attitiude is that he has been driving for “X” years, and who am I to question him
Mine is that if don’t know I ask or read the * manual and I don’t listen to old wives’ tales
driving 5 mins
break 30 mins *
driving 4h 25 mins
break 15 mins (total break now 45 mins, thus ‘re-setting’ the driving time clock)
driving 4h 30 mins *
Please tell me if I am wrong (as I am sure you will) I`m sure I read somewhere that you have to drive for at least 1 hour before you can count any stop time as a break
Mike m:
Please tell me if I am wrong (as I am sure you will) I`m sure I read somewhere that you have to drive for at least 1 hour before you can count any stop time as a break
You’ve probably read it in one of the Urban Myth Threads Mike
5 minutes was quoted above, it can actually be as little as 1 minute drive then 30 minutes rest
What chance do we have of understanding the WTD then
I have already read several interpretations of different rules and its not even in force yet :exclamation: :exclamation: :imp: :imp: I think Ill start to follow a different career path…something simple…nuclear physics perhaps
