Tacho, drivers hours, wtd agency test?

UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUMS THE UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUM (INTERACTIVE)
61

Funny old thing the DCPC, the last 5 modules we basically learned the square root of bugger all, several things on the first one a few of us eventually had to bring the trainer up on because he was teaching any new impressionable newbies car driving practices.

However the 2015 module an ex VOSA Senior TE took as and wow, what a difference, he concentrated on hours and other regulations with the intention of helping us and the company keep out of trouble, very very good trainer and we learned more with him in one session than we would have with a year with the others, it was actually a pleasure to be there and learn from someone good.

Rightly or wrongly whilst worth staying on the right side of the WTD regs, if for no other reason than to avoid company infringements, its our proper legal limits that is what will catch us out and earn us severe punishments not WTD, as said above if you keep legal on the real stuff then usually the WTD cobblers won’t be far out.

Basically if you only drive a short while but are working more than 6 hours, slip a 15 minute break in for a cuppa somewhere before the 6 hours is up, then work normally within the normal driving and work limits and have the rest of your break at some point during the rest of your shift and you’ll generally be fine for WTD.

62

I doubt there are many British workers would work more than 6 hours without a break … it’s just a case of recording that break/breaks

As you have said - get the main EU rules right and WTD will follow along in most cases.

I don’t like mention that WTD isn’t enforced, I have customers have had action taken against the operators licence for WTD issues - so it is enforced in a way.

63

Trouble is there is incorrect information being given out on dCPC courses. Guys like shep seem to know the regs inside out, but too many trainers don’t. (Fair play for offering your services FOC by the way.)

Why cant the material used in the courses be standardised, and verified by the DVSA or JAUPT before they are presented to poor guys who know no better? It might cut down some of the accidentally incorrect advice given out on here!

I used to be a Scuba Instructor in another life, all our course materials were standardised and approved by the industry body. But my class was as different as night and day compared to other instructors even at the same centre, this is because we taught the material on the slides/videos, not just read it out verbatim.

By the way, Conor, Coolrider, everyone gets bits and pieces slightly awry every now and again, that’s what :blush: Is for

■■■■ it up buttercups

64

robroy:
In my case (despite the wind ups :smiley: ) I have a good basic knowledge so I do get by quite ok thanks, so I consider it sufficient, and as I do not get any infringements I am content with my level of knowledge on it.
I have no desire or interest to go into the complexities of it all, because I feel it unnecessary, and I have a life, (not a pop at you btw, as I know it is your job as an instructor).

Ahh so you’re going down the path where you pretend it’s all a wind-up to cover the fact that you couldn’t answer a fairly basic WTD question … bull[zb] :unamused:

The fact that you think only DCPC trainers should have a solid understanding of the regulations drivers have to work to shows how full of bs you really are Rob.

Here you go Rob this may help you Simplified Rules on Drivers Hours and Tachographs, though you’ll probably be too busy keeping it real to bother learning the rules of the job you do :laughing:

65

tachograph:
Ahh so you’re going down the path where you pretend it’s all a wind-up to cover the fact that you couldn’t answer a fairly basic WTD question … bull[zb] :unamused:

The fact that you think only DCPC trainers should have a solid understanding of the regulations drivers have to work to shows how full of bs you really are Rob.

Here you go Rob this may help you Simplified Rules on Drivers Hours and Tachographs, though you’ll probably be too busy keeping it real to bother learning the rules of the job you do :laughing:

Mate, :laughing: …Come on now, You are only ■■■■■■ because I have pointed out your fascination as a driver, bordering on obsession , with all this stuff, sorry I just find it a bit amusing.
If I have offended you which I clearly have,…ok I apologise and I won’t point it out again.

As for your opinion on me, …Have yourself a look back at my past posts from day 1 in 2007, I have always displayed an air of, shall we say not taking this stuff too serious, and yeh you are right, trying to keep things real.

Even I could not keep up a facade of pretence to save embarrasment for that long, what you see and read is what I MEAN, … so that rather blows your theory of me ‘saving face’ in the post in question does it not? :bulb:

I even ADMITTED in my last post, (which you have obviously missed :unamused: ) that I don’t subscribe to WTD b.s, . so it is hardly surprising that unlike yourself, I do not know every intricate detail of it, nor feel the necessity to…There I freely admit it :bulb: (again :unamused: )

Thanks (but no thanks) for your offer of help, as I do manage to get by with sufficient knowledge of the rules in order to do my job, …quite sucessfully in fact, and without breaking the law, despite me not treating all this stuff like a Bible,
I’ll leave that to you btw :smiley: (oh ■■■■! sorry I did say I would knock the wind ups on the head :blush: )

If you think I am full of bs,…ok, that is up to you. I look upon myself more of a realist with a laid back attitude, I don’t go into pmt mode if I go 2 mins over or something and neither do I expect the wrath of Satan if I do so, as some do,
I just prioritise on common sense rather than pretentious theory. :bulb:
Hope that clears things up…Happy new year :smiley:

66

Well I’ve thoroughly enjoyed this thread! :grimacing:

Although I do feel sorry for the OP, who is possibly just as confused, bewildered and intimidated by the regs as when they started…
But the OP should take solace from the fact that even experienced drivers, seem to struggle to get all the regs perfectly correct!

As for simplifying the regs, we all would like this, but also know it would become too restrictive for all sectors of the industry.
However, it is tough for a Newbie to get up to speed with the regs, as at first glance it’s ridiculously complicated and a Newbie has little context on what rules are going to effect them. I’m still not 100% on all the rules, as I couldn’t tell you much about double manning or allowances for ferries. And at this current time, I don’t really care about them as I know they won’t effect me… But come the time, I’m sure I could get my head around these, and have my beloved TNUK to confuse the crap out of me! :laughing:

The reality for a Newbie is that WTD regs are probably more relevant to them, than they are to an experienced driver who’s probably doing longer haul and hitting their driving breaks before falling foul of WTD. A Newbie is likely to start on multi-drop work, rushing around like a blue arse fly feeling the pressure that they need to get up to speed with the job. They have enough stress going on, and the last thing they need is another thing to remember like WTD. It’s been possible at times in my job, to get through my whole day without needing a driving break, and as i’m a limper, I don’t get paid for my breaks so SOMETIMES I’d rather not take them. It’s not like I’m likely to fall asleep doing multi-drop, as I’m not sitting still or driving for long enough for drowsiness to set in. Plus when things are going wrong, I’m probably trying to catch up, & breaks are frustrating rather than relaxing… So a few times, I’ve gone through my day only obeying the WTD rules, as the driving rules are irrelevant! Now don’t get me wrong, I believe breaks are important, so would like to see MORE focus on WTD rules for Newbies, as these are often more relevant to them than driving rules. I’d also like to see the Tacho warn drivers about WTD breaks, like it does for driving hours. (Maybe as an option in the menu that can be turned on or off). Maybe also making it mandatory for drivers to be paid for their breaks would help as well, as then there wouldn’t be any motivation to get through their day without so many breaks…

As a relative Newbie I’ve had a few infringements, and while i’m annoyed I got them due to mistakes I’ve made, I’m not losing any sleep over them, as I see it all as a learning experience. It’s completely unrealistic to expect a Newbie with ZERO experience to get their head around all the rules, as only by DOING do people learn, and things like the rules sinking in properly. So I really feel for the OP being faced with a test on drivers hours, as it’s not really a fair test to them compared to that of an experienced driver. I’m not saying they should be excused from it, just that setting the bar a little lower based on experience wouldn’t be a bad idea…

It’s like like our seasoned professions are perfect is it! :wink:

Regarding MY infringements, I’m still waiting for my arse ■■■■■■ by DVSA, but as I said before, I’m not exactly worried, as I don’t think they will be taking too dim a view on me compared to that of an experienced driver. Whether that is right I don’t know, but I would assume that the DVSA have allowances for Newbie mistakes, just as long as they aren’t daily and showing absolutely no regard to the rules!
But maybe I’m wrong and better lube up! :open_mouth:

67

robroy:
Somebody put me out of my misery ffs before I go to bed.
Am I facing a Conor aimed apology or not■■? :smiley:

30 minutes once you’ve worked 6 hrs and are continuing to work which is what I mean and should’ve worded better but you have to take it once you’ve reached 6hrs. If you’re doing over 9hrs it has to be 45 minutes in total but didn’t mention that because most people have taken a 45 minute driving break by then.

68

E8b.
WTD is not real, it’s ■■■■■■■■, it’s merely a pr excercise, making it look like us ‘juggernaut’ drivers :unamused: , are complying by working reasonable non excessive hours as other industries.

Some smart arse came up with an ingenious scheme to make it look genuine on the surface, but in reality where absolutely ■■■■ all has changed…genius you must admit.
It’s called POA. :bulb:

Co.s with clout in the economy, eg. Tesco would have had to be dictated to, to get their arses into gear and get us a quick turnaround, to maintain our 48 (or whatever ■■■■■■■■) limit.
That would never do, much easier to keep a load of thick uneducated truck drivers working their balls off for 15 hours, and at the same time make them comply by covering reality up themselves …with poa, so everybody is happy on the face of things…except us.

With experience comes cynicism that is why I don’t bother my arse about it.
As some said it all comes together on it’s own with multi drops and cup of tea stops, but I do not conciously apply any priority to wtd.

69

Conor:

robroy:
Somebody put me out of my misery ffs before I go to bed.
Am I facing a Conor aimed apology or not■■? :smiley:

30 minutes once you’ve worked 6 hrs and are continuing to work which is what I mean and should’ve worded better but you have to take it once you’ve reached 6hrs. If you’re doing over 9hrs it has to be 45 minutes in total but didn’t mention that because most people have taken a 45 minute driving break by then.

Conor mate,… very magnanimous of you not to resort to having a pop at me, or a cheap jibe for winding you up. For taking all the stick I aimed at you in the spirit it was intended, and explaining. :sunglasses:
We all make mistakes , even me…once :laughing:

70

robroy:
E8b.
WTD is not real, it’s ■■■■■■■■, it’s merely a pr excercise, making it look like us ‘juggernaut’ drivers :unamused: , are complying by working reasonable non excessive hours as other industries.

Some smart arse came up with an ingenious scheme to make it look genuine on the surface, but in reality where absolutely [zb] all has changed…genius you must admit.
It’s called POA. :bulb:

Co.s with clout in the economy, eg. Tesco would have had to be dictated to, to get their arses into gear and get us a quick turnaround, to maintain our 48 (or whatever ■■■■■■■■) limit.
That would never do, much easier to keep a load of thick uneducated truck drivers working their balls off for 15 hours, and at the same time make them comply by covering reality up themselves …with poa, so everybody is happy on the face of things…except us.

With experience comes cynicism that is why I don’t bother my arse about it.
As some said it all comes together on it’s own with multi drops and cup of tea stops, but I do not conciously apply any priority to wtd.

I’m fully aware it’s basically bollox and way for us to get around the fact we can’t opt out of the 48 hour WTD. But it’s a balls ache for Newbies who are probably starting out on Multi-drop… I’m merely trying to console the OP over failing the test, and not beating themselves up over it…

But as a little teaser, I’d like to post a question for the EXPERTS! :smiley:

When I was broken down for just shy of 6 hours a few weeks back, I put the Tacho on Break. Now it occurred to me, that I couldn’t use POA, as I didn’t know how long I would be there, and it wasn’t like I was available for other work anyway… Now if I had been sat there another 3 hours, I’d have had a “Reduced Rest”, and therefore (in my mind) able to start a new days shift. Now without looking at the regs, would/could that have started the moment I completed my 9 hour reduced rest, or 24 hours after I started the shift that morning? I’d look at the rules myself, but don’t expect I’d find the answer there that easily. Plus I want to see how much confusion and mayhem i can cause here! :grimacing:

I’m fairly sure I could have started a new 24 hour shift immediately after the 9 hour reduced rest, but it wasn’t exactly a rest, as i had to be available for when the mechanic arrived, and when he was working on the truck, should I have put the Tacho to Other work?

71

On the other hand WTD is great for us, i love it, POA not used at all, so none of these stupidly long working weeks.

Unionised job see… :sunglasses:

Yes we all know its ■■■■■■■■, but working right for us the driver it can be excellent ■■■■■■■■.

72

Juddian:
On the other hand WTD is great for us, i love it, POA not used at all, so none of these stupidly long working weeks.

Unionised job see… :sunglasses:

Yes we all know its ■■■■■■■■, but working right for us the driver it can be excellent ■■■■■■■■.

It won’t come as a surprise after all I’ve said, but I’ve never used poa either.
If I am sat waiting for a job or whatever, told it will be xyz hours, …I am working, and getting paid, or if I feel like it, then it’s a break.

If you freely and wiliingly comply to this type of crap and ■■■■■■■■ it only encourages those that devise it, to create even more of it. :bulb:

73

spot on for me ,i’m old school, i stick to the drivers hours as best i can, don’t use poa ,and don’t recognise eu as have never had a vote on it ,when i did cpc only two days as i did adr etc i was told that hgv drivers now have more rules and laws to comply with than airline pilots ,somebody needs to get a grip and simplify

74

Well us Newbies can’t walk straight into a nice unionised job, and have to start with the crap that no one else wants…
But saying that, i don’t use POA, I don’t get chance! :laughing:

I wouldn’t have thought that Juddian gets much chance either, as I would assume your deliveries are pretty much scheduled and they are eagerly expecting you, well the load at least! :grimacing:

75

As an incoming noob currently having to revise for all this wtd, tacho and all the other stuff I have to be honest and say that it is all a completely confusing mess.

Now not wanting to sound too idealistic why do we simply not have two rules…

If ya in uk you have 12hrs all in a day working be it driving and working or whatever but soon as 12 done you have x off then start again on 12…do this for 5days then two full days off. Or take one hour a day off, put it on lay away and do a 6th day at 6hours?

If in EU soon as on their soil same applies.

Guessing I’m an idealist and best go get me coat…

All this stuff is genuinely melting my brain tbh, I’m more interested in learning how to secure loads proper, and get driving safely… Its genuinely off putting me towards this choice of career now lol as I’ve only got 11 month to get it all done and get my C ticket, at this rate I should be doing my theory in 10months :frowning:

Anyway back off too the noob forum now, apologies gents :laughing:

76

Evil8Beezle:
Well us Newbies can’t walk straight into a nice unionised job, and have to start with the crap that no one else wants…
But saying that, i don’t use POA, I don’t get chance! :laughing:

I wouldn’t have thought that Juddian gets much chance either, as I would assume your deliveries are pretty much scheduled and they are eagerly expecting you, well the load at least! :grimacing:

That’s why old bleeders like me who’ve been at the rough end of the job, found out the hard way and found better try to encourage the better bets among the newer drivers to better themselves.

Yes i mention unions regularly in a positive way because i know from experience that the best terms and conditions are to be found at unionised jobs, it’s just how it is.

Others here are anti union for a variety of reasons, that i respect and they are entitled to their own opinions, however i believe by being anti union that they are shooting themselves in the foot but that’s only my humble opinion, and there will always be enlightened smaller employers who realise the quality of good staff that they have and where no union is needed at all, win win all round.

The political side of unions doesn’t interest me one bit, indeed the readiness of unions to embrace the EU and mass immigration which has knocked the genuine working class native’s earnings for six over the last 15 years disappoints me (as well as all the other problems its brought too), they and the Labour Party they go hand in hand with should as (they claim to be) representatives of working class people have been completely against free movement etc, but that’s something the likes of a mere union member have no control over.
So i ignore what the greasy pole climbers at union HQ do think and say, they do not represent me nor speak for me, but the grass roots union movement is not the greasy pole crew nor their minions nor apparatchiks, the real union is the men and women like those whom i work with, are members of my or other unions, pay their subs and support each other, and being a paid up member and having a say in places i’ve worked at has kept me in the better end of work for a good number of years though with the odd hiccup now and then.

This doesn’t mean a union member should be a bolshy sod or as some do take the ■■■■ out of their better T’s and C’s, if the company doesn’t make money and the sicky crew let the company, and therefore the customer, down, it doesn’t take a genius to work out what will happen in due course and it has happened at many places where too many were too thick to see they were killing the golden goose, so if you have a good job for Christ’s sake look after it or it’ll soon not be a good 'un.

Its not me good looks and charm my customers are waiting for its me load :open_mouth: :open_mouth:

Here endeth todays lesson… :laughing:

77

Juddian:
Here endeth todays lesson… :laughing:

Take that anyway you like! :wink:

78

Benjie83:
As an incoming noob currently having to revise for all this wtd, tacho and all the other stuff I have to be honest and say that it is all a completely confusing mess.

Now not wanting to sound too idealistic why do we simply not have two rules…

If ya in uk you have 12hrs all in a day working be it driving and working or whatever but soon as 12 done you have x off then start again on 12…do this for 5days then two full days off. Or take one hour a day off, put it on lay away and do a 6th day at 6hours?

If in EU soon as on their soil same applies.

Guessing I’m an idealist and best go get me coat…

All this stuff is genuinely melting my brain tbh, I’m more interested in learning how to secure loads proper, and get driving safely… Its genuinely off putting me towards this choice of career now lol as I’ve only got 11 month to get it all done and get my C ticket, at this rate I should be doing my theory in 10months :frowning:

Anyway back off too the noob forum now, apologies gents :laughing:

Not at all mate, you talk sense, although one or two on here will choose not to think so.

Case in point, …a new lad, keen, trying his best to learn the more important aspects of the job that actually make you ‘a driver’ and at the same time having to jump through hoops to learn a pile of crap, a lot of which he may never use in the real world.

A simplified basic version is needed. The system that you mention, well the UK part anyway, is very similar to the old system when I started, well as far as I recall, 12.5 on, 11 or 12 off, granted then things were a LOT different, not all for the better either, but we all managed quite easily on the whole.

As you say a confusing mess, a more complicated set of regs (as somebody else said) as an airline pilot, and for what.

79

Stop grooming the new lad! :wink:

I kind of agree, but think the container drivers, along with others that book 70+ hours a week won’t be so happy with that idea.
However, if they were more limited in the hours they could do, wouldn’t the hourly rate have to be upped to compensate?
Or don’t they want more time off? :laughing:

80

robroy:
Conor mate,… very magnanimous of you not to resort to having a pop at me, or a cheap jibe for winding you up. For taking all the stick I aimed at you in the spirit it was intended, and explaining. :sunglasses:
We all make mistakes , even me…once :laughing:

New Years resolution to try and be a bit more considerate on the forums. Might make it to the end of the week… :laughing: