Tacho, drivers hours, wtd agency test?

[dearboy]

I say again, you’re confusing the WTD rule on total breaks required over a shift totalling 6-9 hours (which is 30 minutes) with the WTD requirement that you do not work more than 6 hours without a break. The minimum a break can be is 15 mins, therefore taking 15 minutes break at, or before 6 hours satisfies this requirement.

Here’s an example,
Start 0600
30 minutes other work
1hr 45 driving
2 hrs other work
1 hour driving
15 minutes break
1 hr driving
1 hour other work
30 minutes driving
30 minutes break
3 hours driving
30 minutes other work
Finish

Is this legal to you because you seem to be saying it is not?

[robroy]

Somebody put me out of my misery ffs before I go to bed.
Am I facing a Conor aimed apology or not■■?

[f-reds]

robroy:
Somebody put me out of my misery ffs before I go to bed.
Am I facing a Conor aimed apology or not■■?

Nope, rest easy old 'un

[robroy]

F-reds:

robroy:
Somebody put me out of my misery ffs before I go to bed.
Am I facing a Conor aimed apology or not■■?

Nope, rest easy old 'un

Thanks …but leave out the old un you cheeky ■■■■ !

[f-reds]

Rob mate, I hate to say it but I reckon your old enough to be called Pops

[evil8beezle]

F-reds:
Rob mate, I hate to say it but I reckon your old enough to be called Pops

Ouch!
He’ll be in a right grump now…

[robroy]

Christ they’re ganging up on me now. Just needs Mr Usher to come on now telling me he’s making more cash than me, and I’ll be teling Rikki I’m being bullied.

I’m similar age to Ronnie Pickering btw, so be warned.

[f-reds]

Nah you worry to much E8B. He’s a ■■■■■ cat really

[waynedl]

Coolrider:
No apology needed for Connor because he has stated a break of 30 mins after no more than 6 hrs. Wrong I’m afraid.

You have to have a 30 minute break between 6 - 9 hrs of working ie you could have a 15 after 5 hrs and then another 15 after 8 hrs. You would then have 30 mins total between 6&9hrs. You could then carry on until the 9th hour then take another 15 so you’ve now got 45mins after 9 hrs.

So when Connor say that you must have 30 after 6 it’s wrong.

Quite simple really not sure where the confusion comes from. Especially from the newbies who are supposed to be trained in this stuff

This is not bang on.

If you’d had your first break at say 5hrs, and are working more than 9hrs, then the 15 you’ve put down at 8hrs isn’t actually required as long as another 30 is taken before the end of the shift and at least 15 of that is taken before hour number 11 (working hour, not including breaks) in your example.

ie:
Start at 0400
15 min break at 0900 - coming off break at 0915
15 min break at say 1500 - coming off break at 1515
15 min break at 1600 - coming off break at 1615
finish at 1700

Legal - for WTD purposes.

A lot of people mis-understand the 6-9hr rule, it states IF your working time is going to TOTAL between 6 and 9hrs, but IF it’s more than 9, then that bit goes out of the window

[waynedl]

God I love this site

[f-reds]

waynedl:
God I love this site

+1

[tachograph]

robroy:
Somebody put me out of my misery ffs before I go to bed.

WOW! you criticise Conor for giving an incorrect reply then have to ask others because you don’t know the answer to such a basic WTD question yourself

And you reckon the DCPC isn’t needed for anyone other than new drivers, [zb] me how fake can you get

[robroy]

tachograph:

robroy:
Somebody put me out of my misery ffs before I go to bed.

WOW! you criticise Conor for giving an incorrect reply then have to ask others because you don’t know the answer to such a basic WTD question yourself

And you reckon the DCPC isn’t needed for anyone other than new drivers, [zb] me how fake can you get

Well at least it has made your day/year or life, ME asking YOU a question, (although to be honest I wasn’t really it was more tongue in cheek than genuine )
Lighten up mate, Jeeez.

Not fake bud, it’s just that I don’t share the same fascination for all this cack as you do, but whatever floats your boat.
However I do manage to get by, and have never had an infringement yet … even though our tacho records are stringently checked, so I must be doing something right eh?
Sorry to dissapoint

Something for you to think about, I am either fake, or just winding YOU up, …you decide.

btw. I notice you did not give your opinion on the query, surely you aint beaten … or is it just that you could not resist the opportunity of having a go at me after I set it up for you.

[stevieboy308]

Conor:
The main points are easy and the agency tests will want to know that you understand the following:

Tacho:

Know symbols for work, rest, driving, PoA. You may be asked to complete a paper chart although they’re phasing that out as most lorries are now digi card.

45 minutes rest for every 4.5hrs driving which may be split into two with the second being no less than 30 minutes.

No more than 9hrs driving in a day which may be extended to 10hrs twice a week.

No more than 6 driving periods in a week

No more than 56hrs driving in a week, no more than 90hrs in a fortnight.

Daily rest is 11hrs which may be reduced to 9hrs three times a week. (maximum 13hr duty time which can be extended to 15 three times a week)

When double manning it is 9hrs rest out of every 30hrs (you can work 21hr shifts)

Weekly rest is an uninterrupted 45hrs which may be reduced to 24hrs with a full 45hrs every other week.

Working time directive:

No more than 6hrs work without a break which must be 30 minutes.

No more than 60hrs work in a week,

No more than 48hrs a week averaged over a 17 or 26 week reference periods.

The above are not the full set of regulations but are pretty much everything you’ll be asked about in an agency test. Its also a good idea to familiarise yourself with the geography of the UK so you can identify roughly where major cities are on points on a map as that is a test some agencies do as well and it tends to be places like London, Edinburgh, Birmingham, Manchester, Leeds and major ports like Felixstowe, Southampton, Portsmouth, Hull.

you can do as many driving periods as you can fit into 144 hours since the end of your last weekly rest (whatever you’re calling a driving period!)

the daily rest can be reduced 3 times between weekly rests, not a week.

and as pointed out, it’s you can’t work more than 6 hours without taking a 15 min break. and it’s worth pointing out to the new dude, for the WTD, only driving and other work count as working time, break and POA doesn’t count

[minkymike]

Woah, thanks for all the replies… Lol and confusion ! , haha no, when I did my CPC case studies it did not include anything at all on drivers hours, either did the lgv theory test for that matter, and the initial CPC , was basically aimed towards immigrants, and where drugs could be hidden on the vehicle, and some loading questions, using straps and chains, nothing at all regarding drivers hours, wtd, or using a tacho was taught or tested.

[evil8beezle]

Yep, plenty of confusion here!

[robroy]

Well I managed to entice Tachograph out in to the open … still no sign of Conor

I really need to get back to work,… long hols … I’m bored now

[the_maoster]

The previous two pages highlight exactly the reason that I don’t post on tacho regs/wtd threads! Primarily because life is too short to sit there with a pen and paper to work all this bull out, and secondly the result is invariably more confusion at the end than at the beginning!

I agree that given the nature of our job a good, working knowledge of the regulations is vital, but with the laws being so black and white how is it possible for so many people to have so many different interpretations? In the last two years I’ve had one infringement ( and I knew I was committing it at the time so consequently did an explanation printout at the end of my shift), so obviously I have a fair understanding of the regulations, but a newbie reading these posts would IMO end up bewildered at the end!

Surely there’s a case for simplification of the rules; perhaps something like a maximum 12 hours duty time to be followed by a minimum 12 hours rest period ( KISS) with a 45 minute (un splittable) break to be taken before 4.5 hours driving time is reached?

While we’re at it let’s forget the WTD bollox too because that just adds unnecessary complications into the mix, and unless you’re on multi drop work adhering to the present tacho regs generally keeps you within the WTD regulations too.

So to sum up; an unnecessarily complicated set of regulations that are almost certain to catch out normal working guys and girls going about there daily business to the best of their abilities.

[shep532]

Unfortunately a simplified set of rules would end up restricting the industry to much. For some operators it’d be ideal - for others not. I think the current rules have ended up as ‘complex’ as they appear to be in order to give flexibility to a very diverse industry.

As for the WTD - you are right, we don’t particularly need it. Although I think we need to retain the no more than 6 hours work without a break bit but the rest could go…

And yes you are right about these threads creating more confusion - but if people understood the rules in the first place, these threads wouldn’t happen

I blame the industry. Not enough operators invest time and effort into ensuring the drivers (and themselves) fully understand the rules. The DCPC should be addressing this but it fails miserably for new drivers because they concentrate on the wrong aspects of the job.

I find some existing drivers arrive on DCPC courses with no intention of listening or learning - maybe set in their ways. I find others argue with what we tell them - seems they know best but the remainder seem to appreciate someone explaining things in a way that makes sense.

[robroy]

shep532:
Unfortunately a simplified set of rules would end up restricting the industry to much. For some operators it’d be ideal - for others not. I think the current rules have ended up as ‘complex’ as they appear to be in order to give flexibility to a very diverse industry.

As for the WTD - you are right, we don’t particularly need it. Although I think we need to retain the no more than 6 hours work without a break bit but the rest could go…

And yes you are right about these threads creating more confusion - but if people understood the rules in the first place, these threads wouldn’t happen

I blame the industry. Not enough operators invest time and effort into ensuring the drivers (and themselves) fully understand the rules. The DCPC should be addressing this but it fails miserably for new drivers because they concentrate on the wrong aspects of the job.

I find some existing drivers arrive on DCPC courses with no intention of listening or learning - maybe set in their ways. I find others argue with what we tell them - seems they know best but the remainder seem to appreciate someone explaining things in a way that makes sense.

Shep. Firstly credit to you for offering the o/p a free course, good to see a genuine offer of help with n o hidden motive.

Drivers hours rules, I make no secret of the fact I aint a fan, they are far too ott complex and do need an element of simplification.
AlI jokes aside I do wind up your mate on here, I can not dispute the fact that he knows all this stuff (as you do) down to a fine art, but takes it all a bit too serious.

You admit the over complexity of the system, this is illustrated on this thread when a guy like Conor, who like Tachograph actually embraces all this, quotes chapter and verse, and frequently likes to show he is sold on it to the point of boasting, gets part of it wrong.
So what chance have ordinary drivers got , those who see all this stuff as an occupational hazard rather than a help to them,( or in some cases the Holy Gospel )

In my case (despite the wind ups ) I have a good basic knowledge so I do get by quite ok thanks, so I consider it sufficient, and as I do not get any infringements I am content with my level of knowledge on it.
I have no desire or interest to go into the complexities of it all, because I feel it unnecessary, and I have a life, (not a pop at you btw, as I know it is your job as an instructor).

As for WTD, …could not give a flying ■■■■, it aint genuine anyway it was copped out with the advent of POA so I don’t play ‘their’ stupid games and it is not even policed anyway.

Not sure I agree with your opinions on rule and reg change restricting flexibility either, we all managed quite ok when we were adhering to much simpler and sensible rules before they were ballsed up into the hotchpotch they are today.