Owner / Potential Owner drivers - it’s absolutely against the law to be, or, think about being an owner driver under any circumstances. Trying to make a go of anything on your own will end in failure and misery. Those that already are owner drivers must moan forever about their poison chalice / cross to bear.
There is a silver lining however, once you have subscribed to one or any of the above, you can then come on here as an experienced and knowledgeable member of the industry and provide positive advice to those who are foolish enough to try it for themselves.
Out of interest why do you think many big players have sold their business to Stobarts rather than continue to compete with them or act in a ‘partnership’ . I.e Irlams and O’Connors?
Because like in any business, there are opportunities to expand and grow, organically or by acquisition. Similarly there are opportunities to sell up, or, give up to the competition. There will always be winners and losers, participants of both camps having the grit to have a go in the first place. Irlams weren’t the first business to sell out to a bigger competitor, the beneficiaries of which did very nicely for themselves.
Don’t get me wrong, Stobart’s owner driver franchise may very well be a zb sandwich, but one thing is for sure, absolutely no one on here know’s enough about it to make an informed comment just yet. You never know, maybe, just maybe, it might be an opportunity for someone to cut their teeth for a couple of years running their own truck - granted for someone else, and then move on to something more independent or knock it on the head knowing at least you gave it a go.
No Mat, this is not like any other buisness this offer, its totally unlike a business. Even though i don’t know the exact figures or even the rates they will pay i can still tell you its not a clever move to take on a franchise. As we all know, and its no different for ANY business model in the global consumer market, bigger rules. Smaller operaters even in the actual food supply chain do not get a bite, because they cannot supply the global food chain. And so the same with the global logistics chain.If you sub for them or OD/Franchise for them you’re nothing better that a cheaper option (for them) of employing staff and running vehicles.
I know nothing about the high street retail industry, but i can still state with 100% confidence you would be nuts to open up a butchers shop on a high street. It will fail.
There will be winners in the transport sector too, it just won’t be any Stobarts subbys/OD’s. Eddie Stobarts was built on supplying transport solutions, its now just a brand name. And the current hype says if some guy from ■■■■■■■ can make a Global company delving into allsorts 'then so can i ’ the reality is very far removed. For a start, there is no ‘Eddie Stobart’.
If thats the case then…We had all may as well just give in and do nothing. Any chance that there is anyone out there that can actually comment on how to do somthing positive?
Ha, good gag Hay… Difference between me and you is that i can see light at the end of the tunnel. Just that my tunnel is not eddie stobarts. If you want Eddie Stobarts to help you out the tunnel then good luck to ya, me? I’ll choose my own way out of it !! Ya analogy is crap !!
BTW seeing as carbon neutral business is the way to go recently , whether you agree with it or not, thats the way they go and report stats. If Stobarts, who previously advised the government to tax vehicles for empty running, sub out their runs which will end in an empty leg then they’ll be able to boast even more over their fleet utilisation. I reckon using the subby/OD method they could actually get their fleet utilisation to just about 100%.
Mike-C:
Ha, good gag Hay… Difference between me and you is that i can see light at the end of the tunnel. Just that my tunnel is not eddie stobarts. If you want Eddie Stobarts to help you out the tunnel then good luck to ya, me? I’ll choose my own way out of it !! Ya analogy is crap !!
I dont think I have ever said that I want Eddie Stobart to sort me out with anything!!! (see my post by Hay1908 » Sun Jan 22, 2012 8:54 pm, which was a couple of pages ago) An opportunity is an opportunity, I could not care less who offers it! If the maths add up then I’m there, if the maths are johnny aged 5 then I’m off.
Seriously, best of luck to anyone who decides to go for it but something worth bearing in mind:
Why did so few of their employed drivers decide to take up the offer (those who have an intimate knowledge of the ins & outs of the eddie operational model) that they now need to advertise this deal to external candidates?
If it was an earner, they’d have had their hand bitten off. That’s basically the only salient point when it comes down to it.
I’ve been around the block in haulage once or twice, if it was an earner, i’d be at the head of the que. Although I could be using psychological warfare here, my application could already be in and i’m just putting all you lads off, (insert evil laugh here).
What troubles me most about this scheme is what ESL will do with their own wagons. I have some knowledge of competing with franchised hauliers for Tarmac and Hanson. However, the demarcation between the franchisees (o/d’s and small hauliers with trucks in company colours) and subbies (blokes like me, one wagon, no name on it etc.) is very, very clear. The franchisees get first dibs, if there is anything left it goes to the subbies. Simple.
However, this scheme isn’t simple because ESL will still be running a massive fleet of their own trucks. Tarmac and Hanson don’t (usually) have their own trucks. In effect all transport is subbed out. They don’t really care as long as the tonnage is delivered. ESL is different. Paying drivers, trucks, tyres, fuel etc. they will want to maximise their own fleets productivity and profitability. So where does this leave the franchisees?
Anyone who is interested shouldn’t be slapped down or have the ■■■■ taken out of them. However, they need to ask the right questions to stop them becoming an expensive failure. Such as;
Waiting time. A big, big issue IMO. They could easily end up using the franchisee as a mobile warehouse, leaving them at RDC’s for 4/5 hours a day will drastically reduce what work can be done and if the waiting time is unpaid…
Ownership of the vehicle and what happens if work goes slack. Are the units leased? Can the franchisee source their own load if ESL have given them nothing? If you tip and ring your planner how long do you have to give them before you start ringing round and looking for a load from someone else?
Financial stability of the arm of the Stobart Group that you are actually working for? seems to me they run some serious debts and the group is split over a number of areas. Even ESL will need to be credit checked first IMO.
Rates quarry work is pretty simple. 42 miler = £■■■/tonne etc, you get more for carrying asphalt but everyone knows where they stand. With this is a 120miler to one place, with one type of frieght the same as a 120miler somewhere else with a different freight on? I’ll assume so which makes it very difficult to know exactly how much profit is in each job before you take it on which is surely a massive thing in transport?
States quite clearly you’ll be paid by the load. I don’t expect they’ll pay waiting time on top of the load money.
hammer:
Ownership of the vehicle and what happens if work goes slack. Are the units leased? Can the franchisee source their own load if ESL have given them nothing? If you tip and ring your planner how long do you have to give them before you start ringing round and looking for a load from someone else?
ESL own the vehicle, you lease it off them. You won’t become the owner.
I very much doubt you’ll be able to take work from anywhere else, other than ESL.
Just a thought about the o-licence question, isn’t it the owner of the vehicle have to be the holder? If so the owner of the vehicle is ESL so they should hold the o-licence.
The CPC will be for record keeping and such like
It’s not theirs anymore,
This is our England now.
Paaaaarrrrrrttttttttyyyyyyyy
Okey-Didley-Dokely:
Just a thought about the o-licence question, isn’t it the owner of the vehicle have to be the holder? If so the owner of the vehicle is ESL so they should hold the o-licence.
No, that’s not how it works. The OPERATOR of the vehicle requires an OPERATORS licence. Doesn’t matter who owns it.
Okey-Didley-Dokely:
Just a thought about the o-licence question, isn’t it the owner of the vehicle have to be the holder? If so the owner of the vehicle is ESL so they should hold the o-licence.
The CPC will be for record keeping and such like
The operator of the vehicle should hold the O/Licence, I.E. the person using the vehicle for business purposes or in pursuit of hire and reward.
Take ESL for example, currently all their vehicles on their O/Licence are driven by employed drivers, but 99% of the vehicles are leased so actually belong to Scania/Volvo/MB finance houses, not to ESL.
Okey-Didley-Dokely:
But the operator will be ESL, the franchisee will effectively just be a driver
Yeah, in the real world this is exactly as it is. But on paper you are a seperate business to ESL.
On paper, you are an owner driver sub-contracting to ESL.
In reality though, you lease the truck from ESL at a rate they dictate, they dictate where you go, what you carry, how much you get for the job, how much you pay for diesel, what colour nickers you wear.
You are in effect, an ESL driver, except now you pay for the truck and take liability of the O license, and don’t get holiday pay, overtime or any of the other benefits you would see as an employee.
Someone mentioned above ‘buying a job’. Seems to hit the nail on the head.
No the franchisee will be the operator. Eddie Stobart become a clearing house just like Fred in the shed on Albert Dock
It has been mentioned in the advert that the owner will have to supply a second driver for nights or weekly rest. It is the franchisee who will pay those wages, If Eddie Stobart give you £300 to go to Leeds and it takes 5 hours to get tipped, the driver runs out of hours on the way back, are Stobart going to pay demurrage? They certainly will not be paying night out money.
Anyone going into business will firstly study the market, they will approach customers, suppliers, and do a business plan, whether it be haberdashery or haulage, when finance is in place, they can then and only then apply for planning permission/operator licence/food hygiene certificate, or whatever is necessary.
Hammer touched on a few things, rates waiting time, etc. How about penalty clauses or charges, the load is late, the customer refuses it or wants compensation if it is a line stopper. This can be caused by traffic, accidents, ferries, breakdowns or getting lost. Stobart have a contract with the franchisee to deliver, so if he fails I doubt Stobart will accept the costs incurred
make sure you get all the facts, they are going to paint this fantastic picture of how good it will be ,they aint going to tell you the bad parts,they want your 12 grand
i looked at doing this a few years ago for a cement firm ,sounded good until you dig deeper into it,there was clauses like you have to provide a driver for that vehicle if you want any time off, and are you paid per load or round trip and is it as the crow flys or per mile.
They don’t want your 12k.
They need proof you have sufficient funds in the bank to last the initial setup - until your money starts coming in.
3 month payment terms are not uncommon, the longer the payment terms the better for ESL (as they’ll be making interest off the money in their account) but worse for the franchisee who needs the cash flow.
On top of that, the traffic commisioner will need security for your O license, 7k is it now?
You supply the O license, with all costs associated.
They lease you a truck, cost unknown
They supply trailer, cost unknown
They bunker your fuel, presumably market price, or not.
They supply work at a rate they set, by the load, you incur all costs.
They pay at best after 30 days, from the £12k you’ve stumped up.
Now considering they run lean the rates aren’t going to be great, and they’ll be taking a cut, charging for fuel, maintenance, and anything else they can get away with.
Don’t do general, so could anyone suggest how much the truck might earn in a week.
Hay1908:
Any chance that there is anyone out there that can actually comment on how to do somthing positive?
I am about to head for the fridge and I am positive I am going to have another beer.
I hope that helps.
Contrary to what you wish for I actually do find that a positive action as it has inspired me to do the same, unlike some of the other miserable [zb] on here that just want to ■■■■ the life out of anything positive…
too much beer can damage your health and can have a negative effect on those around you
