Stobbies asking for O/D Trampers?

Hay1908:
I knew I hadnt dreamt it, below is the quote of a post of yours from another thread but about the same subject. I have highlited it in red as its the colour you seem to like. :slight_smile:

hammer:
I reckon they will have over 200 people take them up on it though, look at the starry-eyed nuggets that come on here at least twice a week looking for ‘advice’ (i.e. being told to go ahead and buy a truck).

You are correct, i totally forgot I’d written that. Apologies. I only used red to highlight my answers to the specific issues that you raised. You didn’t address my point below though.

Hay1908:
What I’m getting at is that I have not sat down and worked out the absolute business plan and besides regardless of what hours of driving and work etc that anyone comes up with will have to remain within the LAW and even ES cant get 'You will be expected to break the law and have no time off/holidays/breaks etc whatsoever" written into the contract.
There is no ‘business plan’ is there? You take what Stobart give you workwise. You are totally beholden to you’re planner. As for sticking within the law…and this is the good bit - its your O-licence. You’ll have to face the consequences if your over your hours, not Stobarts as they will say “we told him not to go over his hours”. What will be written into the ‘contract’ is that you will be expected to supply a vehicle for their operation and run it legally. How you do it is your lookout. Legally, Stobbies will have wiped their hands of you before you even start!

The franchise system gives the illusion of being self-employed when in fact you are very much tied to one firm. I’m not against it IMO, you’d probably make a similar living than many o/d’s doing subby work for other firms. However, it would be far harder to grow or expand as you’ll always be constrained by ESL in a way that you wouldn’t as a ‘normal’ o/d with a unit, a bit of luck and a good work ethic. It would probably be safer to go with ESL but if thats the case you’ll never make more than you would if you were just a driver but you’ll be taking on far more risk.

I can assume from the tone of your posts that you are interested. Good luck to you (genuinely) if you try. I will have plenty of questions to come but good luck anyway!

hammer:
The franchise system gives the illusion of being self-employed when in fact you are very much tied to one firm. I’m not against it IMO, you’d probably make a similar living than many o/d’s doing subby work for other firms. However, it would be far harder to grow or expand as you’ll always be constrained by ESL in a way that you wouldn’t as a ‘normal’ o/d with a unit, a bit of luck and a good work ethic. It would probably be safer to go with ESL but if thats the case you’ll never make more than you would if you were just a driver but you’ll be taking on far more risk.

I can assume from the tone of your posts that you are interested. Good luck to you (genuinely) if you try. I will have plenty of questions to come but good luck anyway!

Mate, i wasnt being facetious by getting back at you with that post I was genuinely baffled as to where I read it, but anyway, cheers for your points.
Your right in the fact that I’m interested, but more interested in knowing the finer details of the deal. I’m in a position that I could go for it (Got the time/qualifications/finances etc) but dont want to just be wasting my time and money in just what could end being ultimately me just buying a job as a driver and not actually buying a business.

I am only in this position as I am currently effectively un-employed on an agency which is only offering me work about once a week (normally at last minute and on nights). Luckily at the moment I can financially sustain this boring existance but it wont last forever and I’m still knocking on doors and sending out CV’s etc even although I’ve exhausted the local hauliers about 3 times now.

You should see by my posts that I am just fishing for advice and drawing on others for experiences but I have to be able to put aside comments and posts by people who are just being negative because they are either bitter or have a grudge against ES, by the way I couldnt care less who the company offering the deal was ES or Maritime etc etc.

Hopefully more details of the offer may come at a later date, but thanks for your support mate and please, do offer up as much help as you can because after all you are in the game of being an OD

I said it earlier but there’s no way ESL would set up a franchise system that hasn’t really been costed out by highly paid accountants, lawyers etc. because if it fails then it will reflect badly on the parent company, after all these franchisees will still be the public image of the company and it’s to everyone’s benefit to make it work. OK, so it’s not going to make the franchisee into a millionaire - very few franchises do - but it’s hopefully been set up to provide a decent income to those willing to abide by the ESL rules.

Having said that, my lad has been put off by reading a lot of the posts on here - he’s looking at a local ‘Bargain Booze’ franchise now!!

tallyman:
I said it earlier but there’s no way ESL would set up a franchise system that hasn’t really been costed out by highly paid accountants, lawyers etc. because if it fails then it will reflect badly on the parent company, after all these franchisees will still be the public image of the company and it’s to everyone’s benefit to make it work. OK, so it’s not going to make the franchisee into a millionaire - very few franchises do - but it’s hopefully been set up to provide a decent income to those willing to abide by the ESL rules.

Having said that, my lad has been put off by reading a lot of the posts on here - he’s looking at a local ‘Bargain Booze’ franchise now!!

Tallyman, I totally agree with you, that is the reason why I’m still holding out until I see the small print. However there are some good and valid negatives being said on here by guys with knowledge of the current climate of O/D ing. The only bit missing is the info from ESL and it does appear strange that they advertised the opportunity in the Sun rather than in the various haulage/trucker type medias that are out there. Are you still waiting out for the info that you requested from them?

“me just buying a job as a driver” I think this sentence in one of the posts sums it up for me, plus you are going to get some real headaches with this, and thinking about the tacho laws+the WTD I think keeping running to best maximise earnings is going to be a problem+ plus finding someone you trust and is available at a time and price you can afford might be a problem, and if you do find someone, pay them cash?, will ES have the right to say you don’t send him here, what about his insurance, who is responsible for that? how much to pay someone for a sunday, a min of £12 per hour I would have thought (for cash) more if not+ diesel for the run(s), if you are of say sat/sun you might well have to find £250/300 just for wages and as much again for derv, £600 (pherhaps) a lot of money.

The figure are just guesstimates

Blunder Man:
The figure are just guesstimates

And that will be the main problem for a lot of people who go into this. They won’t have a clue about running a vehicle or the costs involved and the guesstimates will be their downfall.

Yes the ‘Other Driver’ bit would prove to be a headache, I did toy with the thought of perhaps going into the whole thing with a partner, i.e. split everything down the middle and try and get the truck going as near as dam 24/7 but others have already brought up loads of holes in that plan. And I’m not sure if ES would agree to it.

And coffeeholic I would hope that no one would be foolish enough to entertain anything like this unless they have both the information and the knowledge before buying into it. It is at the end of the day just basic business, doesnt matter if its a truck or if its construction or anything else, business is business. If after looking at all the figures it is a dead end then it gets dropped, simple as! You cant just presume that people are just wanabe truckers! Do you think Duncan Bannantine would be where he is today if it was because he was just a massive fan of ice cream?

Hay1908:

tallyman:
I said it earlier but there’s no way ESL would set up a franchise system that hasn’t really been costed out by highly paid accountants, lawyers etc. because if it fails then it will reflect badly on the parent company, after all these franchisees will still be the public image of the company and it’s to everyone’s benefit to make it work. OK, so it’s not going to make the franchisee into a millionaire - very few franchises do - but it’s hopefully been set up to provide a decent income to those willing to abide by the ESL rules.

Having said that, my lad has been put off by reading a lot of the posts on here - he’s looking at a local ‘Bargain Booze’ franchise now!!

Tallyman, I totally agree with you, that is the reason why I’m still holding out until I see the small print. However there are some good and valid negatives being said on here by guys with knowledge of the current climate of O/D ing. The only bit missing is the info from ESL and it does appear strange that they advertised the opportunity in the Sun rather than in the various haulage/trucker type medias that are out there. Are you still waiting out for the info that you requested from them?

My son’s still thinking about it, but don’t know if he’ll follow it up. We’ve got the finance, it’s just a case of deciding what to do with it & the initial ad does look attractive, but there are enough opportunities out from proper businesses/franchises so this is just one of many at the moment. I’ll phone up, on his behalf, tomorrow, just to get the initial form, but if they don’t give much more information I’m not certain he’ll take it much further, other businesses we’re enquiring about give far more up-front information.

Incidentally, does anyone know of any ESL drivers who actually took up the original £5k opportunity? I’ve seen mention of ESL O/Ds on this thread but no=one has come back with any concrete experiences…

Fileep:
I don’t understand why people can’t grasp the fact that ESL will save thousands for every OD they take on! Thats without altering the rate! As my earlier post said,

If he replaces all 300 trampers with OD then thats £1.5m ayear saved just on night out money. £1m saved on meal allowance. £0.6m on holiday pay. £0.5m on pensions. Thats £3.6M a year saved without NI, Training, sick pay or agency to cover the truck when you can’t work.

I hope if people look into this properly and take it up that they make a success of it.

you do realise that they will be paying the owner drivers, don’t you?

stevie

Yeah, but by the load.
They won’t be paying overtime, Holidays, Nat Ins, night out money, meal allowance or anything else listed above.

Hay1908:
And coffeeholic I would hope that no one would be foolish enough to entertain anything like this unless they have both the information and the knowledge before buying into it

Indeed that would be the hope that but we all know that won’t be the case. May I refer you to the people who said they were going to do this the first time it was discussed on here as evidence to that.

just out of interest do you know what thew mark up on ice cream is?
i do and in good sunny weather it makes driving a truck look silly, and is mostly all cash!
back to the point, running a buisness or even growing a buisness needs 1 major thing “CUSTOMERS” and whilst running a truck for stobart’s you wont have any end of!
all you will be doing is buying a job for yourself, it may pay a little more than being a driver for said firm (due to no hanging the job out)…but not enough to be worth the hasstle!
this 12k is peanuts when setting up as an o/d ask anyone on here thats done it of late, lets just have a look at some known costs- £1200 road tax,3-5k ins for a new start,truck hire/payment, trailer hire, parking, tyres,repairs, garage pm checks,truck wash, oh forgot the main one diesel!!
moose

cieranc:
Yeah, but by the load.
They won’t be paying overtime, Holidays, Nat Ins, night out money, meal allowance or anything else listed above.

so what you’re saying is that the load rate once all costs except wages have come off, leaves the profit / wages, is going to work out 50% / 75% for arguments sake of the total wage an employed driver makes. now pretend you’ve never read one of toby’s posts :laughing: do you really think anyone is that daft?? however you dress it up, at the very worst it needs to be comparable.

stevie

MAT:

Mike-C:

MAT:
That’s it then, decision made…

  1. Owner / Potential Owner drivers - it’s absolutely against the law to be, or, think about being an owner driver under any circumstances. Trying to make a go of anything on your own will end in failure and misery. Those that already are owner drivers must moan forever about their poison chalice / cross to bear.

There is a silver lining however, once you have subscribed to one or any of the above, you can then come on here as an experienced and knowledgeable member of the industry and provide positive advice to those who are foolish enough to try it for themselves.

Out of interest why do you think many big players have sold their business to Stobarts rather than continue to compete with them or act in a ‘partnership’ . I.e Irlams and O’Connors?

Because like in any business, there are opportunities to expand and grow, organically or by acquisition. Similarly there are opportunities to sell up, or, give up to the competition. There will always be winners and losers, participants of both camps having the grit to have a go in the first place. Irlams weren’t the first business to sell out to a bigger competitor, the beneficiaries of which did very nicely for themselves.

Don’t get me wrong, Stobart’s owner driver franchise may very well be a zb sandwich, but one thing is for sure, absolutely no one on here know’s enough about it to make an informed comment just yet. You never know, maybe, just maybe, it might be an opportunity for someone to cut their teeth for a couple of years running their own truck - granted for someone else, and then move on to something more independent or knock it on the head knowing at least you gave it a go.

No Mat, this is not like any other buisness this offer, its totally unlike a business. Even though i don’t know the exact figures or even the rates they will pay i can still tell you its not a clever move to take on a franchise. As we all know, and its no different for ANY business model in the global consumer market, bigger rules. Smaller operaters even in the actual food supply chain do not get a bite, because they cannot supply the global food chain. And so the same with the global logistics chain.If you sub for them or OD/Franchise for them you’re nothing better that a cheaper option (for them) of employing staff and running vehicles.
I know nothing about the high street retail industry, but i can still state with 100% confidence you would be nuts to open up a butchers shop on a high street. It will fail.
There will be winners in the transport sector too, it just won’t be any Stobarts subbys/OD’s. Eddie Stobarts was built on supplying transport solutions, its now just a brand name. And the current hype says if some guy from ■■■■■■■ can make a Global company delving into allsorts 'then so can i ’ the reality is very far removed. For a start, there is no ‘Eddie Stobart’.

Mike-C:

MAT:

Mike-C:

MAT:
That’s it then, decision made…

  1. Owner / Potential Owner drivers - it’s absolutely against the law to be, or, think about being an owner driver under any circumstances. Trying to make a go of anything on your own will end in failure and misery. Those that already are owner drivers must moan forever about their poison chalice / cross to bear.

There is a silver lining however, once you have subscribed to one or any of the above, you can then come on here as an experienced and knowledgeable member of the industry and provide positive advice to those who are foolish enough to try it for themselves.

Out of interest why do you think many big players have sold their business to Stobarts rather than continue to compete with them or act in a ‘partnership’ . I.e Irlams and O’Connors?

Because like in any business, there are opportunities to expand and grow, organically or by acquisition. Similarly there are opportunities to sell up, or, give up to the competition. There will always be winners and losers, participants of both camps having the grit to have a go in the first place. Irlams weren’t the first business to sell out to a bigger competitor, the beneficiaries of which did very nicely for themselves.

Don’t get me wrong, Stobart’s owner driver franchise may very well be a zb sandwich, but one thing is for sure, absolutely no one on here know’s enough about it to make an informed comment just yet. You never know, maybe, just maybe, it might be an opportunity for someone to cut their teeth for a couple of years running their own truck - granted for someone else, and then move on to something more independent or knock it on the head knowing at least you gave it a go.

No Mat, this is not like any other buisness this offer, its totally unlike a business. Even though i don’t know the exact figures or even the rates they will pay i can still tell you its not a clever move to take on a franchise. As we all know, and its no different for ANY business model in the global consumer market, bigger rules. Smaller operaters even in the actual food supply chain do not get a bite, because they cannot supply the global food chain. And so the same with the global logistics chain.If you sub for them or OD/Franchise for them you’re nothing better that a cheaper option (for them) of employing staff and running vehicles.
I know nothing about the high street retail industry, but i can still state with 100% confidence you would be nuts to open up a butchers shop on a high street. It will fail.
There will be winners in the transport sector too, it just won’t be any Stobarts subbys/OD’s. Eddie Stobarts was built on supplying transport solutions, its now just a brand name. And the current hype says if some guy from ■■■■■■■ can make a Global company delving into allsorts 'then so can i ’ the reality is very far removed. For a start, there is no ‘Eddie Stobart’.

If thats the case then…We had all may as well just give in and do nothing. Any chance that there is anyone out there that can actually comment on how to do somthing positive?

Hay1908:
Any chance that there is anyone out there that can actually comment on how to do somthing positive?

I am about to head for the fridge and I am positive I am going to have another beer.

I hope that helps.

Coffeeholic:

Hay1908:
Any chance that there is anyone out there that can actually comment on how to do somthing positive?

I am about to head for the fridge and I am positive I am going to have another beer.

I hope that helps.

Contrary to what you wish for I actually do find that a positive action as it has inspired me to do the same, unlike some of the other miserable ■■■■■■■■ on here that just want to ■■■■ the life out of anything positive… :laughing:

Hay1908:

Coffeeholic:

Hay1908:
Any chance that there is anyone out there that can actually comment on how to do somthing positive?

I am about to head for the fridge and I am positive I am going to have another beer.

I hope that helps.

Contrary to what you wish for I actually do find that a positive action as it has inspired me to do the same

I’m very happy that helped. Cheers!

For what little it may be worth to-day,my advice is if you fancy starting as an O/D do it on your own and I reckon from what I’m reading the large operators will be able to keep you going with ad hoc traffic,but you’ll be your own boss and not ■■■■■■■ on an “onerous” “fast eddie” franchise aggreement.Happy hauling,Bewick.

Little or not Bewick, any advice that is based on knowledge and experience is always appreciated especially when given with factual examples of previous fortune or mis-pleasure.