commonrail:
if the trucks were making money,why would they give any of it to you…you don`t get rid of good buisness…end of
No, but some types of business lend themselves to a franchise model. It lets the franchisor grow their business, reduce costs and improve productivity. One area where Stobarts would reduce their costs for example is on employers national insurance e.g if you employ say 500 drivers earning £25k per annum, the national insurance bill for that alone is in excess of £1.6m) There would be no point in Stobarts taking on franchisees to fail. Nobody wins in that scenario. It’s whether or not you can make enough of a return to justify the outlay and commitment.
MAT:
There would be no point in Stobarts taking on franchisees to fail. Nobody wins in that scenario. It’s whether or not you can make enough of a return to justify the outlay and commitment.
They won’t necessarily fail, just be used to cover the jobs that are unprofitable and save themselves a large amount of money on drivers wages whilst the trucks isn’t turning a wheel. For example;
whilst waiting to tip (trucks not earning)
parked up for the night (trucks not earning)
statutory rest breaks (trucks not earning)
in for maintenance (trucks not earning).
Add up all the hours for these things per annum over an entire fleet and you’ll see an enormous cost saving.
Personally, I reckon this would appeal to small/medium sized transport firms who have between 5 and 25 trucks and who struggle to find regular work for all of them every week. The scheme would be ideal for them as it would instantly remove the hassle of finding work for one wagon and the rates on general haulage are so poor its likely ESL’s won’t be any worse so what the difference?
burnie1:
If it was such a good deal then I would have thought that someone from stobarts would have been on here selling the benefits to potential drivers.
MAT:
It’s astonishing that this advert has generated so much comment - a 6 page thread, generally slagging off Stobart’s and their franchise offering.
What I’d like to understand is, given the only information available about the deal is on the advert itself. How do you know that it’s a bad deal, Stobart hating and all aside
In my opinion, which is based on info from a Stobbie driver mate of mine over the years, Stobarts are a bit like the outfit that I presently work for , when it comes to ANY changes that involve money and drivers combined, it is designed to look good and attractive, and at the same time either benefit the company, or rip off the drivers, or mostly BOTH, so to answer your question I don,t actually KNOW it,s a bad deal, but 30odd years in this industry forces me to take a cynical view of anything like this, so I would put my 12k to better use, and feel sorry for anybody who is naive enough to take this on.
Wonder what sort of earnings can made its a tramper job so maybe 1 or 2 loads a day but how much are they paying for loads.
Say your average tramper stobbie earns 28k a year
What will a franchisee earn with his 12k invested? 29k a year? It would take 12 years to be better off than your average stobbie driver.
I remember watching dragons den and the pitch was about franchises and the dragons said sometimes its not worth the headaches if your only earning a touch over what the average joe is earning.
I don’t understand why people can’t grasp the fact that ESL will save thousands for every OD they take on! Thats without altering the rate! As my earlier post said,
If he replaces all 300 trampers with OD then thats £1.5m ayear saved just on night out money. £1m saved on meal allowance. £0.6m on holiday pay. £0.5m on pensions. Thats £3.6M a year saved without NI, Training, sick pay or agency to cover the truck when you can’t work.
I hope if people look into this properly and take it up that they make a success of it.
Fileep:
I don’t understand why people can’t grasp the fact that ESL will save thousands for every OD they take on! Thats without altering the rate! As my earlier post said,
If he replaces all 300 trampers with OD then thats £1.5m ayear saved just on night out money. £1m saved on meal allowance. £0.6m on holiday pay. £0.5m on pensions. Thats £3.6M a year saved without NI, Training, sick pay or agency to cover the truck when you can’t work.
I hope if people look into this properly and take it up that they make a success of it.
Then add in the % they take off before they give the od rate. It’s winning all round for tinkler and co
mac12:
Where does it say they take of a % before paying OD?and where dose it say you pay them £12000 it says you need £12000 to cover start up costs.
Doesn’t say it, but its the same with all franchisees, the rate the company pay the od isn’t what the customer is charged. And for the record I used to work for a Tarmac franchisee where the driver organised everything except writing the cheques.
On the face of it, this isn’t much like that. As a tarmac franchisee you own the truck, they help you with the finance, fuel ,insurance etc but after 5yrs you actually own the truck. The operators licence is in your name, but they supply the operating centre.
hammer:
What do you do in week two then? Based on your example above, the franchisee can only drive 34hours and his mate 34.5 hours in the 2nd week.
Do whatever they want, play golf if its what they are into or book themselves in for an appointment to get their backs, sacks and cracks seen to.
The franchisee and his mate can go and play golf but neither can do much driving in week 2 in your original example. My point is, if that happens - who drives the truck in week 2? Stobbie’s insist the vehicle is ‘available’ so you’ll need more drivers.
What I’m getting at is that I have not sat down and worked out the absolute business plan (Like I said in a post as its just a bit of food for thought) and besides regardless of what hours of driving and work etc that anyone comes up with will have to remain within the LAW and even ES cant get 'You will be expected to break the law and have no time off/holidays/breaks etc whatsoever" written into the contract.
There is no ‘business plan’ is there? You take what Stobart give you workwise. You are totally beholden to you’re planner. As for sticking within the law…and this is the good bit - its your O-licence. You’ll have to face the consequences if your over your hours, not Stobarts as they will say “we told him not to go over his hours”. What will be written into the ‘contract’ is that you will be expected to supply a vehicle for their operation and run it legally. How you do it is your lookout. Legally, Stobbies will have wiped their hands of you before you even start!
But thanks for your observation and I take it that you are of the opinion that 'Its and absolute rip off, and in no way or shape can anyone possibly be able to make a living out of it not even if there situation may no be the same as yours, or even if their idea of a decent income is different from yours or if their idea of a decent lifestyle is different from yours. Maybe we are all just ‘Nuggets!!’ as you said in an earlier post. At no point did I describe anyone as a nugget. I’m an owner-driver and i don’t make much money. I compete with franchise hauliers every day, difference with me is Tarmac have franchisees who are 1st in line for whatever work there is and everyone knows that and where they stand. However, difference between Tarmac and ESL is that Tarmac don’t have their own trucks. Do you honestly think you will get the decent work? What people do is their own business. Each to their own and what suits them.
I knew I hadnt dreamt it, below is the quote of a post of yours from another thread but about the same subject. I have highlited it in red as its the colour you seem to like.
hammer:
I reckon Mr Tinkler and Mr Stobart bumped into a bigwig at Tarmac/Hanson/Bardons at some point in the last year…
I reckon they will have over 200 people take them up on it though, look at the starry-eyed nuggets that come on here at least twice a week looking for ‘advice’ (i.e. being told to go ahead and buy a truck).
New and Wannabe’s - Do not spend your hard earned on a getting as class 1 licence. There are no jobs and if you can find anyone who will employ you, you will work for nothing. Under no circumstances work for any big company with shiny trucks, they are the devil’s own.
Employed drivers - hold you head in your hands and cry. What on earth ever made you get involved in this industry. You are doomed to puragtory for most of eternity, the remainder of which you will spend in hell, whilst being paid £8 an hour (less if you work for satan, but at least you drive a Volvo).
Owner / Potential Owner drivers - it’s absolutely against the law to be, or, think about being an owner driver under any circumstances. Trying to make a go of anything on your own will end in failure and misery. Those that already are owner drivers must moan forever about their poison chalice / cross to bear.
There is a silver lining however, once you have subscribed to one or any of the above, you can then come on here as an experienced and knowledgeable member of the industry and provide positive advice to those who are foolish enough to try it for themselves.
New and Wannabe’s - Do not spend your hard earned on a getting as class 1 licence. There are no jobs and if you can find anyone who will employ you, you will work for nothing. Under no circumstances work for any big company with shiny trucks, they are the devil’s own.
Employed drivers - hold you head in your hands and cry. What on earth ever made you get involved in this industry. You are doomed to puragtory for most of eternity, the remainder of which you will spend in hell, whilst being paid £8 an hour (less if you work for satan, but at least you drive a Volvo).
Owner / Potential Owner drivers - it’s absolutely against the law to be, or, think about being an owner driver under any circumstances. Trying to make a go of anything on your own will end in failure and misery. Those that already are owner drivers must moan forever about their poison chalice / cross to bear.
There is a silver lining however, once you have subscribed to one or any of the above, you can then come on here as an experienced and knowledgeable member of the industry and provide positive advice to those who are foolish enough to try it for themselves.
That pretty much sums up a lot of the comments on here. There does seem to be a lot of negativity, pesamistic and possibily a touch of sour grapes. I believe that if things are as bad as what they are or at least as bad as what a lot of people on here say that they are then surely somethings have to change or maybe mix things up a bit and possibly think outside the box but above all else we cant just sit on our arsses and do sweet ■■■■ all about it.
Edited to add that if we were to do nothing then we would be un-proffesional and the children would not get fed!!
Owner / Potential Owner drivers - it’s absolutely against the law to be, or, think about being an owner driver under any circumstances. Trying to make a go of anything on your own will end in failure and misery. Those that already are owner drivers must moan forever about their poison chalice / cross to bear.
There is a silver lining however, once you have subscribed to one or any of the above, you can then come on here as an experienced and knowledgeable member of the industry and provide positive advice to those who are foolish enough to try it for themselves.
Out of interest why do you think many big players have sold their business to Stobarts rather than continue to compete with them or act in a ‘partnership’ . I.e Irlams and O’Connors?
MAT,if I read you right you appear to be for this scheme, if so give it a go, you don,t have to listen to negativity about it on here, although some of the opinions are probably based on bad experiences of the industry, as are mine, so should at the very least be considered, but if you think we are wrong and you right, go for it, I will be the first to wish you luck with it, you never know if you don,t try.
Owner / Potential Owner drivers - it’s absolutely against the law to be, or, think about being an owner driver under any circumstances. Trying to make a go of anything on your own will end in failure and misery. Those that already are owner drivers must moan forever about their poison chalice / cross to bear.
There is a silver lining however, once you have subscribed to one or any of the above, you can then come on here as an experienced and knowledgeable member of the industry and provide positive advice to those who are foolish enough to try it for themselves.
Out of interest why do you think many big players have sold their business to Stobarts rather than continue to compete with them or act in a ‘partnership’ . I.e Irlams and O’Connors?
Because like in any business, there are opportunities to expand and grow, organically or by acquisition. Similarly there are opportunities to sell up, or, give up to the competition. There will always be winners and losers, participants of both camps having the grit to have a go in the first place. Irlams weren’t the first business to sell out to a bigger competitor, the beneficiaries of which did very nicely for themselves.
Don’t get me wrong, Stobart’s owner driver franchise may very well be a zb sandwich, but one thing is for sure, absolutely no one on here know’s enough about it to make an informed comment just yet. You never know, maybe, just maybe, it might be an opportunity for someone to cut their teeth for a couple of years running their own truck - granted for someone else, and then move on to something more independent or knock it on the head knowing at least you gave it a go.
Owner / Potential Owner drivers - it’s absolutely against the law to be, or, think about being an owner driver under any circumstances. Trying to make a go of anything on your own will end in failure and misery. Those that already are owner drivers must moan forever about their poison chalice / cross to bear.
There is a silver lining however, once you have subscribed to one or any of the above, you can then come on here as an experienced and knowledgeable member of the industry and provide positive advice to those who are foolish enough to try it for themselves.
Out of interest why do you think many big players have sold their business to Stobarts rather than continue to compete with them or act in a ‘partnership’ . I.e Irlams and O’Connors?
Because like in any business, there are opportunities to expand and grow, organically or by acquisition. Similarly there are opportunities to sell up, or, give up to the competition. There will always be winners and losers, participants of both camps having the grit to have a go in the first place. Irlams weren’t the first business to sell out to a bigger competitor, the beneficiaries of which did very nicely for themselves.
Don’t get me wrong, Stobart’s owner driver franchise may very well be a zb sandwich, but one thing is for sure, absolutely no one on here know’s enough about it to make an informed comment just yet. You never know, maybe, just maybe, it might be an opportunity for someone to cut their teeth for a couple of years running their own truck - granted for someone else, and then move on to something more independent or knock it on the head knowing at least you gave it a go.
well said
It’s not theirs anymore,
This is our England now.
Paaaaarrrrrrttttttttyyyyyyyy
