swellbelly:
Scrappy:
Hi just a quick one does anyone know roughly how much does a stobart night shift class 1 driver take home a week?
Thanks£230 per week net for a normal amount of hours unless you live at work then its slightly more
If that’s true then that’s shocking!
Winseer:
happysack:
96 hours fortnightly driving? Er excuse me me mighty winseer but think you better go and do your cpc and swot up a bit.Right I’ll make it easy for you. My average week is 3x15, 1x13 and probably between 10 and 13 on a Friday. Lets say 12, add we know how pedantic you are. Oh crikey that makes an easy 70. That will be for arguments sake 45 hours driving. A few hours other work, some break and some poa. Out of the 70 hours I will be deducted 2.5 for breaks. Come on brain box I know you can work that out.
I contribute £25 per week to a pension fund. after this comes of my wages I usually bank in the region of £575. Is that easy enough for you to understand.
No? Ok here we go. 70 hours per week on duty. Drive/work approx 50 (ok I know wtd is 48 but I do have slack weeks) and I am paid a take home wage of £600. Monday to Friday.
Oh and I agree with the above post regarding you being a work shy sponging parasitic pleb. Good evening sir.
Congratulations to you, for assisting your firm in running bent. It’s your licence, so I’m not criticising here.
This shift pattern for a single week would be fine for agency - but not for a full time job doing it week in, week out!Part of being agency for me is the ability to pick up some heavy weeks from time to time, like during the run up to Christmas. As agency I would have enough hours banked to do it.
A full timer doing this 70 hours thing every week however would not. If you do 70 hours one week, then 26 hours the next week on a fortnight rotate, then it would be OK.
I don’t mind being paid for 70 hours, but I’ll not be on duty for more than 60 in any one week to get it: Not because I’m sponging or workshy - but because I’d really like to keep my clean licence for the remaining 20+ years of my driving career ahead!You won’t know anything is wrong with a weekly average over 60 hours on duty of course, until you are involved in an RTA and VOSA are all over you for reasons why it happened…
Fines, Company avoids liability, Driver responsible, Cut loose to limit damage to firm. job lost, licence lost, company survives. No one else walks out over dismissal, 'cos no one gives a ■■■■, etc etc.
winseer did you read what wrote? you clearly don’t understand some of the simpler driving regs
how can you use a salaried job as you example of a firm not paying poa? i’m not accepting it! but even so, even if you do 3 x 15 and 2 x 12 = 69 then it works out at around £7.25 for every hour at work, whilst a poor straight through rate, it isn’t below the nmw.
you’re going to have to do better than that or it’s going to get filed as bull [zb]
question 2, well you’re all over the place 
90 hours is the maximum you can drive in a fortnight, 56 hours is the maximum you can drive in week, there are no driving hours to average out
60 is the maximum number of hours you can work in a week, work = driving + other work. ---- breaks, rest and poa do not count.
48 hours are what you need to average for your work hours over the specified reference period, usually 26 weeks.
you can therefor have more than 60 hours on your time sheet with the use of breaks / poa, there is nothing ilegal about this.
[/quote]
If you do 56 one week, and 56 the next week you’re over.
The 96 hour average is because you’re expected to give back the hours over (eg 56 in week one) by the end of week three. 90 of this can be driving, therefore 6 as other work. Holidays of 4 weeks per year will mean that all drivers get the ability to push for 48-56 hour driving weeks here and there. In back-to-back weeks, the driving hour maximum is 90 hours.
Over 26 weeks, during which you are expected to take 2 weeks “statutory leave”, you can work 24 weeks @ 48 hours average, but of course never 2x48 driving hour weeks back to back.
The three week period works better here, as you can do 45+45+45 or 56+24+56 or even 48-40-48 … but not 45+48+45!
When I was full timer on a 48 hour working week, I liked doing one odd day’s leave for 10 weeks out of the 26 week reference period, which then allowed me to get more 56-34-56 patterns in… I’d take the 14hour day off out of my 48 hour on-duty week.
This made possible extra overtime opportunities, as well as massaging my hours so I never once went over a 90 hour driving fortnight, or over a 96 hour on-duty fortnight. 
As agency, I found that breaking a heavily-houred week up with strategic days off taken (just as unpaid days off) would then allow patterns like say, 15+13+15+weekly rest 2 days+15+13+15+week off+15+13+15+weekly rest 2 days etc etc which permits some flexibility in both picking up the odd shift extra here and there (12 hours spare most weeks) AND being able to keep hours on an even keel. I rarely work flat 8 hour shifts, because it suits me to cram the hours into fewer days, and sleep it off on my days off, rather than at the wheel. If I find myself palmed off with a whole week of 15 hours (because I didn’t know the firm was doing this!), then I’d end up dropping by Thursday Morning, because of fatigue. (I’d have done 45 hours that week by that point, and I’d give away the remaining 2 days shifts.
That doesn’t make me a lightweight/scrounger/sponger - I just have a stronger survival instinct maybe, and not being ruling class, I can’t seem to shake off the “pleb” rating either!
Time on duty for pay purposes sometimes includes POA and sometimes not - depending upon the firm.
If you go to work starting at 8am and you finish work at 11pm, then you have been on duty for 15 hours as far as the 9hour minimum daily rest is concerned. It doesn’t matter if you took 2 hours in breaks, and 3 hours in POA. You are taking a reduced rest, which is limited by law per week. You CANNOT do that pattern on a monday-friday let alone monday-saturday basis.
I agree there is no limit to how much “time” firms PAY you for, but there is a limit as to “minimum times on daily/weekly rest” which I believe is also supposed to be “un-interrupted”.
If a firm wants to pay you £800 for doing a 6am-6pm monday-friday then that’s a cushy job. Good pay, All nice and legal.
If they want you to do 6am-9pm for £6000 a week, then it’s bent. Not because of the £6k, but because you can’t drop minimum daily rest to 9 hours that many times in a week!
As far as I know, POA is never spent at home with the family. You are required to be available at a moment’s notice, and must be on standby with your vehicle for that purpose.
Being asleep on the bunk is about as “restfull” as POA can possibly get, but who would argue that 2-3 hours “poa” sleep can refresh you as well as a full 11 hours off-duty at home? 
The limits on daily rest are there for a reason.
“Staying alive” is the best of them! 
lol, I love this forum, had more laughs this week than in a long time 
winseer, i can’t work out if you’re trying to be funny, or you just don’t get it 
Winseer:
here’s my reason I don’t like ya,
Cos your a work shy benefit sponger.
Wrong facts. Typical ongoing moron who can’t take my previous complaint against as an end to all this crap.
I’ve paid near on £250k in taxes during my career to date as a driver. I’d say I’ve paid more into the system than even someone who’s never worked can take out.
Dunno why that makes me “workshy” or “benefit scrounger”.
I’ve already told you I’ve signed on a total of 9 weeks in the past quarter century.
I’ve worked every week other than those 9 weeks, anything upto the legal 60 hours, with my average being at the upper end.
You’d have to be an idiot, or working illegally to be out-earning me even now. I’ll settle for the former explanation I reckons.
Going PART TIME after 22 years of that does NOT make me any of the things you suggest, so just knock the attacks on me on the head ok?
In your book, pensioners are spongers as well are they not? They claim state pension (a benefit), then don’t work as many hours (workshy?) - maybe none at all. They don’t claim unemployment benefits (as I have not 1135 weeks out of the last 1144)
However, unlike me they won’t fly in your face and defend themselves every time some johnny-come-lately pillock steps in to attack them… 
“Not liking me” because you’re of lower capacity is not sufficient reason to dislike me, therefore it must only be out of ignorance and stupidity that you do.
You have the right to ignore me, and that’s it.
Seeing two words linked together of my posts is clearly damaging to you, and it was not my intention to put you in hospital. 
If you want to try and overtake me in anything, try out-posting me without making yourself look like a kid in the process.
Challenge on!
[/quote]
Bash on typing scrounger, your easy to sum up in a few words.
ND888 BIGJ:
this is getting interesting good posts from everyone.
so lets see if it can develope into a mature debate and not decend into a handbags at dawn debacle like every other E/S thread ends up.With E/S being asuch a big player in this industry i would be good to have a lenthy debate without the bunfights.
seems thats not possible?
I understand the 90 hours fortnightly driving thing clearly. What I dont get is the 96 hours fortnightly duty. Is this a new thing? I have never ever come across it. Surely the point of a 26 week reference period is that you average to 48 hrs over that reference period. Maybe it makes it easier to monitor if you keep track on it fortnightly but as far I know its not a legal requirement.
e.g you can be on duty (drive and other work) for 60 hours per week for the first 13 weeks, and 36 hours per week for the second 13 weeks thus having an average of 48 hours WTD.
Next, I take great umbrage at the taunts of work shy sponger for those part time agency workers who, because of the nature of agency work are allowed deductions for various reasons. As virtually self employed they have to bear the costs of uniform, PPE, Transportation to various places of work, etc etc. Why shouldnt this be deductable from gross income, just as it is not added on to full time workers gross salary?? If any full timers get sent to another depot their company will pay the expenses at 45ppm or hire them a car and pay for fuel in addition to their wage. If they require new boots they will be provided or reimbursed in addition to their wage and so on…
I can only work 3 weekends a month due to being a single parent. My primary responsibility is to my kids. I can only play with the cards ive been dealt Fulltime HGV driving is not a realistic option given the long hours required and expected, and the child care facilities available. As such I travel wherever I need to at the weekend in order to work maximum hours. After all of my expenses, and I dont claim for everything I can, for doing this I am in line for full TC/WTD, a fair chunk of HB/CTB and little or no tax.
I dont consider myself to be a workshy sponger, quite the opposite. I could sit on my arse all day on Jobseekers but I am trying to earn a future for me and my two ‘toddlers’.
In addition I am also funding my re-training to be a teacher on a part time basis whilst the kids are at nursery.
Now I sit back and wait for the torrent of neanderthal abuse.
Juddian:
Some reasonable take home pay being quoted here, i assume subsistence allowances would be in addition?The hours blokes employed there need to work for an average take home pay is nothing short of scandalous, its not 1963 any more, people shouldn’t need to work two weeks every week for just an average wage.
^ The whole thread summed up in a couple of sentences.
Dumb drivers chasing the dollar, for an early grave and a dysfunctional family, crack on stupid.
coreysboys:
I understand the 90 hours fortnightly driving thing clearly. What I dont get is the 96 hours fortnightly duty. Is this a new thing? I have never ever come across it. Surely the point of a 26 week reference period is that you average to 48 hrs over that reference period. Maybe it makes it easier to monitor if you keep track on it fortnightly but as far I know its not a legal requirement.
e.g you can be on duty (drive and other work) for 60 hours per week for the first 13 weeks, and 36 hours per week for the second 13 weeks thus having an average of 48 hours WTD.Next, I take great umbrage at the taunts of work shy sponger for those part time agency workers who, because of the nature of agency work are allowed deductions for various reasons. As virtually self employed they have to bear the costs of uniform, PPE, Transportation to various places of work, etc etc. Why shouldnt this be deductable from gross income, just as it is not added on to full time workers gross salary?? If any full timers get sent to another depot their company will pay the expenses at 45ppm or hire them a car and pay for fuel in addition to their wage. If they require new boots they will be provided or reimbursed in addition to their wage and so on…
I can only work 3 weekends a month due to being a single parent. My primary responsibility is to my kids. I can only play with the cards ive been dealt Fulltime HGV driving is not a realistic option given the long hours required and expected, and the child care facilities available. As such I travel wherever I need to at the weekend in order to work maximum hours. After all of my expenses, and I dont claim for everything I can, for doing this I am in line for full TC/WTD, a fair chunk of HB/CTB and little or no tax.
I dont consider myself to be a workshy sponger, quite the opposite. I could sit on my arse all day on Jobseekers but I am trying to earn a future for me and my two ‘toddlers’.
In addition I am also funding my re-training to be a teacher on a part time basis whilst the kids are at nursery.Now I sit back and wait for the torrent of neanderthal abuse.
Fare doos. You don’t come on here like arse winnit does, telling people in nearly every post that he won’t work for less than £10ph cos he doesn’t have to, because the social will top him up. and everyone else is a mug for working for a lower hourly rate, or working longer hours. Apparently we’re all running bent.
The bit thats always grated on me with a number of hauliers inc ESL is not the take home pay as such. I reckon £26 to £28k salary for general haulage is fairly reasonable for a 48 hour week. I don’t think it unreasonable for any company to salary general drivers on these terms. What I object to vehemently is paying for example £18k basic and then topping up with tax free bonus’s to achieve the reasonable pay figure as this creates unstability for the employees, gives an extra stick for the employer to beat the driver with, and results in much lower holiday pay. It ‘feels’ like a fiddle in favour of the employer, as it also avoids paying money to the Treasury.
A knock on from this is that if ‘so and so’ is paying drivers a headline rate of £7 per hour plus bonus’s, the bonus’s will often be conveniently not seen by other employers and they will see it as carte blanche to pay £7 per hour and adopt the attitude of ‘be glad you’ve got a job’.
So, although ESL wages may be quite good on analysis, they may be inadvertantly driving down wages across the industry simply due to the structure in which the wages are accrued.
I would be interested to know, in Stobarts case, if the costs of monitoring and administering the wages + bonus structure are beneficial against the money saved from not just salarying drivers on £28k basic + overtime. There must be a fair few people employed at Appleton tasked with not only this job but sorting out wage queries where complicated payroll errors have been made!
lilysgranpa:
swellbelly:
Scrappy:
Hi just a quick one does anyone know roughly how much does a stobart night shift class 1 driver take home a week?
Thanks£230 per week net for a normal amount of hours unless you live at work then its slightly more
[zb] me, What decade are you living in?
Another [zb] numpty that thinks he knows all about Stobarts cos his brothers friends mates uncle did a shift for them in the 80’s.
eddie stobart pay £7 an hour on a recent post on here 2012 rates work it out yourself on salary calculator numpty
Honestly. I ask you.
swellbelly:
lilysgranpa:
swellbelly:
Scrappy:
Hi just a quick one does anyone know roughly how much does a stobart night shift class 1 driver take home a week?
Thanks£230 per week net for a normal amount of hours unless you live at work then its slightly more
[zb] me, What decade are you living in?
Another [zb] numpty that thinks he knows all about Stobarts cos his brothers friends mates uncle did a shift for them in the 80’s.eddie stobart pay £7 an hour on a recent post on here 2012 rates work it out yourself on salary calculator numpty
i take it you missed the other posts that mentioned meal allowance, fuel bonus, night rate, etc?
swellbelly:
lilysgranpa:
swellbelly:
Scrappy:
Hi just a quick one does anyone know roughly how much does a stobart night shift class 1 driver take home a week?
Thanks£230 per week net for a normal amount of hours unless you live at work then its slightly more
[zb] me, What decade are you living in?
Another [zb] numpty that thinks he knows all about Stobarts cos his brothers friends mates uncle did a shift for them in the 80’s.eddie stobart pay £7 an hour on a recent post on here 2012 rates work it out yourself on salary calculator numpty
GOD !! Give me strength !! £7 p/h?? In 1996 the take-home pay was £375 a week. So you’re saying that 16 year’s later they’re paying £145 less P/W ■■
Wake up & smell the coffee !! Someone Is obviously winding you up…
Here here , well said and eloquently put ( mad rush for dictionarys for most the half wits on here ) wake up and smell the coffee people !!!
Winseer:
So, those working 84 hours a week are getting a basic gross pay of £840 are they? Nope, I forgot. The racing to the bottom that some of you think I’m a helmet for slamming all the time means that it’s actually 84 paid hours at £6.25ph, making that £525 basic considered so meaty by so many… Maybe that indeed means taking home £460pw with the allowances and other odds and sods added on to take a few quid off the taxman just as much as claiming any tax credits do, which of course also makes me such a helmet apparently.
Get the argument straight. Crossing picket lines is scabby. I’ve never done it, so criticising me is outside the argument of this entire thread!Let’s keep some other answers straightforward then. NO personal attacks involved here, just a generalisation - no names as to protect the guilty.
Question One - What firms are not paying POA… or at least using POA to cover up paying near to the minimum wage…
Kent runners into Pallet networks don’t pay POA. You’ll do a 12-15 hour night monday-friday each week for about £500 “salary”. No particular company named to protect the guilty, but there’s plenty of them. It probably doesn’t apply to outside kent, as it’s the 4hr20run upto places like Fradley Park/Burton that make it such a long night.Question Two -
96 hours a fortnight refers to the average driving hours you’re supposed to clock up in a full time job. It can be extended to 56 hours on odd weeks, but must still average 48 over a reference period, generally 26 weeks. The max working week was supposed to be 60 hours, and not 84 at work. If there are firms paying people for 84 hours but only recording 48-56 hours a week to their WTD aggregate, then the firm must therefore be cooking their books. Do you all think I’m a helmet for saying that working an 84 hour week, week in week out is LEGAL?
It doesn’t matter if you only get paid for 48 hours, only drive for 48-56 hours, or whatever. It’s over 60 hours a week average at work, which is taking the ■■■■ looking at the families, and sometimes lives it all destroys.When investigated by VOSA the dodgy firm will say of a recently crashed and killed driver “He does a 48 hour driving week here pal” when in fact he did 6 x 15 hour shifts with a 1 hour break per day" (the 84 hour week of which I speak) which of course means that he had too many 9 hour daily rests not just that week, but every week.
Even five days of this crap is bad enough - but 6?
No wonder this proverbial driver died of the “nodding dog!” Now I feel pretty passionately about weeding this OUT of the industry. And there are those who’d slag me off for “threatening to upset the applecart” with such whistleblowing?
Trying to save lives and livelihoods makes me a scumbag, whereas those crossing picket lines are "ok fella* because there’s just so many of them these days?
Who’s boiling who’s ■■■■ now?
Democracy died with the Unions I think, since how can so many people be lining up to get it wrong, and any attempt to be the voice of reason gets me slagged off so often?I’m not a stobart slammer in particular, as I’ve never had anything to do with them. They are just one of many firms in the race to the bottom, thinking that is a good thing for all concerned. There are other firms out there - those working in them know who - who’ll be encouraging longer than necassary hours. Encouraging covered-up tiredness. Encouraging premature DEATH!
The name just crops up a lot on this board as representatives of that canny business practice that uses worker’s own fear to drive down wages, which is the thin end of the wedge.
I feel strongly against a boss getting rich when their rank and file staff get poorer by the backdoor.I slam those who aid and abet firms like them into driving down wages, scabbing across picket lines, slag off people like me for speaking against it, and maintaining divisions across the industry.
I write a lot, because I type fairly fast. I’ve been posting online far longer than I’ve been driving, and don’t much like the “dumbing down” that has taken place on the net since the days when “being online” was the realm of computer folk like me, travel agents, and the academic community in particular. Ie. people who can spell and type for starters!
Do I know anything? Nope, I have a large number of opinions, some of which I feel quite passionately about like many other folk. If ‘writing a lot’ and ‘having passions’ makes me a loudmouth, then just about everyone in history who’s stood up and said something, written a book, or pretty much done anything outside of themselves AT ALL is a loudmouth by that reckoning.
Now… Hows Abouts someone explaining to me a proper reason why you really don’t like me that much…
Surely it’s more than just “reading fatigue” at my posts that no one is forcing you to read?
Geoffo:
swellbelly:
lilysgranpa:
swellbelly:
Scrappy:
Wake up & smell the coffee !! Someone Is obviously winding you up…
To the OP! £475 - £590 IF YOU GET YOUR HOURS IN! 
Winseer and juddian you know what you’re on about!
StobRat pays bobbins rates! ENDEX when I started 2007, night tramping it was easy money, Thursday to Monday! Then comedians at appleton stuck their oar in and started parking you up after 6,7,8 hours! 
then agency drivers were going past you and doing 15 hours and running out of time! Then Monday to Friday day tramping came up at Trafford park! NOW THE COMEDIANS WANT US TO WORK WEEKENDS!
Days £7.75 06:00- 18:00hrs
Nights £8.60 18:00- 06:00hrs
Saturday £10.50 straight
Sunday £11.25 straight
Meal allowance £13
Night out £22.50
Driver standard bonus £5 but your depot manager Aka merchant banker Bolger/ Morgan can take it off you for a harsh break, one of which constitutes reversing onto the king pin on your trailer, idling or out of the green band! It’s all Betty swallox, as it can be over ridden! It’s easy money for doing nothing!
Fatboy slimslow:
Geoffo:
swellbelly:
lilysgranpa:
swellbelly:
Scrappy:
Wake up & smell the coffee !! Someone Is obviously winding you up…To the OP!
Winseer and juddian you know what you’re on about!
StobRat pays bobbins rates! ENDEX
Days £7.75 06:00- 18:00hrs
Nights £8.60 18:00- 06:00hrs
Saturday £10.50 straight
Sunday £11.25 straight
Meal allowance £13
Night out £22.50
Driver standard bonus £5 but your depot manager Aka merchant banker Bolger/ Morgan can take it off you for a harsh break, one of which constitutes reversing onto the king pin on your trailer, idling or out of the green band! It’s all Betty swallox, as it can be over ridden! It’s easy money for doing nothing!
So thats £387.50 gross per week guaranteed for 50 hours, right?
coreysboys:
So thats £387.50 gross per week guaranteed for 50 hours, right?
if that’s what you’ve worked it out at! nights can start at midday, 13:00 hrs if you’ve a good manager!
I like your posts Winseer.
