Stobart owner drivers

UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUMS THE UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUM (INTERACTIVE)
121

Wheel Nut:

AlexWignall:

fuse:
YOU are not an owner driver, I could spend time explaining but I can not be a,d

Okay then, Self Employed Driver.

W

If you want to be self employed, sign on at an agency, then you can pick and choose your jobs, you certainly cannot with the blurb I posted. Hey you may even get a shift on a new owner driven Stobart motor through the agency!

A fool and their money are easily parted

Thats a bit out of context Wheel Nut.

I guess that Adrian fella didn’t turn out to be my old customer then?
W

122

Rob K:

AlexWignall:
Rob I had in mind the Companies credit history not my own personal credit history. I’m sorry that I didn’t make that clear. I’ll try not to type posts with jam on my fingers in future…

W

Alex, the same answer also applies to my company credit history as well for that matter.

Fair enough, surely you must agree that ESL will make sure that the franchisee gets enough work to pay his or her bills even if the poor old driver ends up with £100 a week?

123

AlexWignall:

Rob K:

AlexWignall:
Rob I had in mind the Companies credit history not my own personal credit history. I’m sorry that I didn’t make that clear. I’ll try not to type posts with jam on my fingers in future…

W

Alex, the same answer also applies to my company credit history as well for that matter.

Fair enough, surely you must agree that ESL will make sure that the franchisee gets enough work to pay his or her bills even if the poor old driver ends up with £100 a week?

No, I’m not convinced of that in the slightest.

124

Perhaps the way to look at it is from Stobarts point of veiw.

You already drive for them.
You hand them £5k and they hand you the keys to your motor.
Your expected to run that wagon 7 days a week and pay the other driver (saves them having to park it when your off)
They don’t have to pay you Fuel Bonus ,night out money,Pension and any other financial incentives.
You pay for tyres and fuel
Stobart offer you the work at a rate ( I assume they keep a portion and you get a percentage of it).
If you get stuck at RDC they’re not losing anything. (you might get demurrage).
You pay your own tax and NI.
When the motor goes in for service they will probably charge you for any broken mudguards scratched bumpers etc.

Questions to ask.
What happens if you get a puncture - who pays for the call out and new tyres
What happens if you break down - who pays for the wrecker or fitter call out (if needed) and what happens if you lose work.
Whats the rates? - I’m sure you can go on there web site and “bid” for loads
Do you get your invoice after 90 days?

So you put £5k down
You probably need to keep a few £k to see you through if your only getting paid every three months.
Seems to all work in Stobarts favour to me (or else they wouldn’t do it any way)

Remember what Andrew Tinkler said:

Stobart Group chief executive Andrew Tinkler says the firm’s road transport business is looking to offer subcontract loads to regional and small hauliers to help boost fleet utilisation.

Tinkler believes that by offering out loads that would otherwise necessitate a long empty leg for a Stobart truck, it can increase fleet utilisation from 84% to about 90%. Hauliers wanting to bid for work would have to meet certain KPIs.

Tinkler adds: “We will be able to offer loads where we have got an imbalance. We are trying to work with regional hauliers to take the strain off them and give them additional opportunities.”

125

Soldier z:
Perhaps the way to look at it is from Stobarts point of veiw.

You already drive for them.
You hand them £5k and they hand you the keys to your motor.
Your expected to run that wagon 7 days a week and pay the other driver (saves them having to park it when your off)
They don’t have to pay you Fuel Bonus ,night out money,Pension and any other financial incentives.
You pay for tyres and fuel
Stobart offer you the work at a rate ( I assume they keep a portion and you get a percentage of it).
If you get stuck at RDC they’re not losing anything. (you might get demurrage).
You pay your own tax and NI.
When the motor goes in for service they will probably charge you for any broken mudguards scratched bumpers etc.

Questions to ask.
What happens if you get a puncture - who pays for the call out and new tyres
What happens if you break down - who pays for the wrecker or fitter call out (if needed) and what happens if you lose work.
Whats the rates? - I’m sure you can go on there web site and “bid” for loads
Do you get your invoice after 90 days?

So you put £5k down
You probably need to keep a few £k to see you through if your only getting paid every three months.
Seems to all work in Stobarts favour to me (or else they wouldn’t do it any way)

Remember what Andrew Tinkler said:

Stobart Group chief executive Andrew Tinkler says the firm’s road transport business is looking to offer subcontract loads to regional and small hauliers to help boost fleet utilisation.

Tinkler believes that by offering out loads that would otherwise necessitate a long empty leg for a Stobart truck, it can increase fleet utilisation from 84% to about 90%. Hauliers wanting to bid for work would have to meet certain KPIs.

Tinkler adds: “We will be able to offer loads where we have got an imbalance. We are trying to work with regional hauliers to take the strain off them and give them additional opportunities.”

Some good points, but the poster states ESL Employees only to apply, not regional hauliers!

126

W

Adrian Browns son and daughter both race grasstrack on MX bikes, he lives over Preston way but is from Yorkshire.

I dont think I was out of context, just maybe cocked up on the quotes between Fuse and yourself.

What I meant was an agency driver would have more chance of choosing his work, when to work, or when he took his holidays then a Stobart O/D would.

I think that was what Fuse meant too :blush:

127

Soldier z:
Remember what Andrew Tinkler said:

Stobart Group chief executive Andrew Tinkler says the firm’s road transport business is looking to offer subcontract loads to regional and small hauliers to help boost fleet utilisation.

Tinkler believes that by offering out loads that would otherwise necessitate a long empty leg for a Stobart truck, it can increase fleet utilisation from 84% to about 90%. Hauliers wanting to bid for work would have to meet certain KPIs.

Tinkler adds: “We will be able to offer loads where we have got an imbalance. We are trying to work with regional hauliers to take the strain off them and give them additional opportunities.”

Same shizzle that DHL do.

Customer : got a trailer load of stuff in Glasgow that needs to be in Manchester yesterday. How much?
DHL : £1000.
Customer : Okay make it happen.

DHL picks up phone to subby OD.

Subby : How much?
DHL : £250.
Subby : I’m on my way.

128

Rob K:

AlexWignall:

Rob K:

AlexWignall:
Rob I had in mind the Companies credit history not my own personal credit history. I’m sorry that I didn’t make that clear. I’ll try not to type posts with jam on my fingers in future…

W

Alex, the same answer also applies to my company credit history as well for that matter.

Fair enough, surely you must agree that ESL will make sure that the franchisee gets enough work to pay his or her bills even if the poor old driver ends up with £100 a week?

No, I’m not convinced of that in the slightest.

As you or I are not or ever likley to be Franchise Drivers for ESL we will never know for sure will we Rob?

I’m fighting a losing battle because any Franchise Haulier who is on a ‘good screw’ at ESL is hardly likely to come on to TNUK to tell other drivers about it.

W

129

AlexWignall:

Rob K:

AlexWignall:

Rob K:

AlexWignall:
Rob I had in mind the Companies credit history not my own personal credit history. I’m sorry that I didn’t make that clear. I’ll try not to type posts with jam on my fingers in future…

W

Alex, the same answer also applies to my company credit history as well for that matter.

Fair enough, surely you must agree that ESL will make sure that the franchisee gets enough work to pay his or her bills even if the poor old driver ends up with £100 a week?

No, I’m not convinced of that in the slightest.

As you or I are not or ever likley to be Franchise Drivers for ESL we will never know for sure will we Rob?

I’m fighting a losing battle because any Franchise Haulier who is on a ‘good screw’ at ESL is hardly likely to come on to TNUK to tell other drivers about it.

W

I think time will tell soon enough. There’s bound to be some chumps willing to sign up for it just so they can get their “own” shiny brand new unit for £5k. You may laugh and scoff, but there’s plenty of them out there. It’s only a matter of time before they appear on this site, if indeed Stobart go ahead with it.

130

Wheel Nut:
W

Adrian Browns son and daughter both race grasstrack on MX bikes, he lives over Preston way but is from Yorkshire.

I dont think I was out of context, just maybe cocked up on the quotes between Fuse and yourself.

What I meant was an agency driver would have more chance of choosing his work, when to work, or when he took his holidays then a Stobart O/D would.

I think that was what Fuse meant too :blush:

Ah right, I forgot you liked Grasstrack.

If you look at my location I live ten minutes from the Preston venue and have even raced (turned up, more like!) in the MX class myself.

As for the post, I was just a bit concerned that I had annoyed you but I see where you’re coming from now.

W

131

Rob K:

AlexWignall:

Rob K:

AlexWignall:

Rob K:

AlexWignall:
Rob I had in mind the Companies credit history not my own personal credit history. I’m sorry that I didn’t make that clear. I’ll try not to type posts with jam on my fingers in future…

W

Alex, the same answer also applies to my company credit history as well for that matter.

Fair enough, surely you must agree that ESL will make sure that the franchisee gets enough work to pay his or her bills even if the poor old driver ends up with £100 a week?

No, I’m not convinced of that in the slightest.

As you or I are not or ever likley to be Franchise Drivers for ESL we will never know for sure will we Rob?

I’m fighting a losing battle because any Franchise Haulier who is on a ‘good screw’ at ESL is hardly likely to come on to TNUK to tell other drivers about it.

W

I think time will tell soon enough. There’s bound to be some chumps willing to sign up for it just so they can get their “own” shiny brand new unit for £5k. You may laugh and scoff, but there’s plenty of them out there. It’s only a matter of time before they appear on this site, if indeed Stobart go ahead with it.

You’re probably right Rob we have only seen one potential candidate so far and he lost his rag over restacking a pallet.

So he didn’t do my argument much good either.
W

132

Soldier z:
Perhaps the way to look at it is from Stobarts point of veiw.

You already drive for them.
You hand them £5k and they hand you the keys to your motor.
Your expected to run that wagon 7 days a week and pay the other driver (saves them having to park it when your off)
They don’t have to pay you Fuel Bonus ,night out money,Pension and any other financial incentives.
You pay for tyres and fuel
Stobart offer you the work at a rate ( I assume they keep a portion and you get a percentage of it).
If you get stuck at RDC they’re not losing anything. (you might get demurrage).
You pay your own tax and NI.
When the motor goes in for service they will probably charge you for any broken mudguards scratched bumpers etc.

Questions to ask.
What happens if you get a puncture - who pays for the call out and new tyres
What happens if you break down - who pays for the wrecker or fitter call out (if needed) and what happens if you lose work.
Whats the rates? - I’m sure you can go on there web site and “bid” for loads
Do you get your invoice after 90 days?

So you put £5k down
You probably need to keep a few £k to see you through if your only getting paid every three months.
Seems to all work in Stobarts favour to me (or else they wouldn’t do it any way)

Remember what Andrew Tinkler said:

Stobart Group chief executive Andrew Tinkler says the firm’s road transport business is looking to offer subcontract loads to regional and small hauliers to help boost fleet utilisation.

Tinkler believes that by offering out loads that would otherwise necessitate a long empty leg for a Stobart truck, it can increase fleet utilisation from 84% to about 90%. Hauliers wanting to bid for work would have to meet certain KPIs.

Tinkler adds: “We will be able to offer loads where we have got an imbalance. We are trying to work with regional hauliers to take the strain off them and give them additional opportunities.”

That is a good post Soldier Z and I agree with every word of it.

It’s just if you follow your post to it’s logical conclusion it is in ESLs intrests for its franchisees to be at least modestly sucessful. I accept that if they just sub work to normal hauliers (like your post suggests they might) ESL will happily see those hauliers go down but why would they do that to their bargin basement priced and pliant franchisees?

This is the argument that seems to be pitching me against the rest of TNUK. Which is something that is not really my style but still has been fun none the less.

W

133

AlexWignall:
I accept that if they just sub work to normal hauliers (like your post suggests they might) ESL will happily see those hauliers go down but why would they do that to their bargin basement priced and pliant franchisees?
W

Because you can bet your last breath that ESL will get your money one way or another even possibly by selling YOUR house that you have had to use for security.

134

Ben9:

AlexWignall:
I accept that if they just sub work to normal hauliers (like your post suggests they might) ESL will happily see those hauliers go down but why would they do that to their bargin basement priced and pliant franchisees?
W

Because you can bet your last breath that ESL will get your money one way or another even possibly by selling YOUR house that you have had to use for security.

I’m sure you are right Ben. It doesn’t answer my question though.

Why would ESL bankrupt it’s franchise holders?

For a start, don’t you only have to repay twenty pence in the pound if you go bankrupt (I’m sure someone on TNUK will be happy to correct me).

These guys will be totally dependant on ESL and they will have to do everything they are told to do on time and without mistakes. In fact it reminds me of the Share Croppers from depression era America. I digress.

My point is Ben, where is the commercial sense in leaving a string of ex employees homeless when they could all be grafting their arses off for the benifit of ESL?

W

135

AlexWignall:

Ben9:

AlexWignall:
I accept that if they just sub work to normal hauliers (like your post suggests they might) ESL will happily see those hauliers go down but why would they do that to their bargin basement priced and pliant franchisees?
W

Because you can bet your last breath that ESL will get your money one way or another even possibly by selling YOUR house that you have had to use for security.

I’m sure you are right Ben. It doesn’t answer my question though.

Why would ESL bankrupt it’s franchise holders?

For a start, don’t you only have to repay twenty pence in the pound if you go bankrupt (I’m sure someone on TNUK will be happy to correct me).

These guys will be totally dependant on ESL and they will have to do everything they are told to do on time and without mistakes. In fact it reminds me of the Share Croppers from depression era America. I digress.

My point is Ben, where is the commercial sense in leaving a string of ex employees homeless when they could all be grafting their arses off for the benifit of ESL?

W

Most owner operator scams, (bloody spellchecker) are worded solely for the benefit of the provider, I don’t think they do want them bankrupt, they want them hungry and that will happen, just as it has done with all these types of scheme in the past. It isn’t franchising in sense of the word. A franchise allows use of a legal trademark to promote your own business. This isn’t your own business as you have no control over it’s success apart from avoiding bollards, cars & punctures.

I am willing to bet my best shirt that any fuel used will be charged out weekly, the tyre pennies will be charged out monthly and any damage, the insurance and admin charges will all come out of the pot, before the o/d sees a cent, out of that he then has to pay a good driver to drive the remaining shifts. Will you get a chance to run it 24/7 even if you could afford the fuel and wages?

To get the best driver, the o/d is going to have to better or at least equal the wages a good Stobart driver can earn at Stobarts.

No one has yet answered the financial requirement of £8100 or the fact that getting an O licence and CPC results could take us into the middle or end of December, just after the mad Christmas rush which is an established hauliers icing on the cake.

For a start, don’t you only have to repay twenty pence in the pound if you go bankrupt (I’m sure someone on TNUK will be happy to correct me).

No you are mistaken W, what you have probably read is that many suppliers only get a few pence out of that pound when the business fails and it all ends in tears!

136

ask any tarmac/hanson owner operators they could nt care less if you make it or not allways some other numpty waiting to take a lorry on esl will be no diffrent.

137

Thanks Wheel Nut for seeing my point of view.

I hope you can tell from all my posts in this thread that I strongly dissapprove of franchise schemes and I’m not too impressed with hauliers who palm off their costs onto their hapless drivers.

I would say that ESL would act as garantor for the £8100 with a deposit for it coming out of the 5k “needed to meet start up costs” just as a proportion of it will go as the first payment for the truck and its insurance, datatrak and other monthly costs all arranged at a fee for the Franchisee.

The annoying thing is ESL will actually get an arrangement fee from the truck finance company and the insurance company as well.
I bet it was “trebles all round” in the board room when they thought of that one.

If ESL really wants to give it’s workers an incentive they should turn all it’s workforce into shareholders and pay them dividends instead of handing it all over to the Merchant Bankers in the City.

Oh I forgot… this is transport, why would you give your staff a fair crack at the whip?

W

138

sammy dog:
ask any tarmac/hanson owner operators they could nt care less if you make it or not allways some other numpty waiting to take a lorry on esl will be no diffrent.

I think thats basically what I said about three pages ago but in a different way…

Some will make it because they are savvy, some will earn a better wage than they already do and some will live it up bigtime, get caught for the first big bill and fail. It seems to be the natural way of things… :unamused:

Alex W

You’re not on your own, I do actually agree with you. There would be no benefit to ESL if their franchisee’s failed but they will surely keep them hungry, just to ‘persuade’ them to give their utmost to earn that elusive mars bar… :wink:

Ady1 is quiet! Is he busy arranging parking, tyre suppliers, spare drivers, etc…? :smiley: :smiley:

139

It sounds to me as iff your going into a betting shop, you pay your five grand hope you get good loads good tips that pay the best rate.unless you know what your rates are and what you do to get them it is a gamble.It looks a good well run company so they may give od,s good work up untill your costs are covered,and what they consider a wage then I think they will dish thecrap out.I am a Tarmac OD and have been for over 25 years I like it but the shine for one thing and another is wearing off. My own thoughts on this are that running the trucks is not paying enough because of the cost of Euro 6 ,the silly wtd,and other stuff being shoveled onto the haulage bus,I also think the Poa will be getting the boot before long and driver hours also are being looked at every body knows they are to long no matter how much you love being a driver .So in a nut shell I think sobart may not feel there is enough return on his own trucks for the costs and hassle, Tarmac found this out 40 years ago.

140

Soldier z:
Tinkler believes that by offering out loads that would otherwise necessitate a long empty leg for a Stobart truck, it can increase fleet utilisation from 84% to about 90%. Hauliers wanting to bid for work would have to meet certain KPIs.

Read and think, read and think :wink:
Stobbies will be doing the paid milage, while the subbies/OD’s/Mugs will be doing the paying milage…