So If We Leave

UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUMS THE UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUM (INTERACTIVE)
81

bjd:
As above really if we are lucky enough to get out of Europe will we be able to ditch the wtd as its a stupid pointless euro rule ?

If you think the WTD is stupid wait until your boss wants you to do an 18 hour shift then 6 hours rest and back on for another shift. Then you’ll really have something to complain about.

Or not. I did a double manned run recently. 17 hours we were out and the other driver, some work mad Romanian was dishing out ideas as to how we could make the shift longer.

Fill your boots mate, I’m going to bed :unamused: :open_mouth:

82

Carryfast:

stevieboy308:
I’m the one bs ing, but where have you plucked the 9 hours from?

I was referring to the minimum ‘9’ hours daily rest period.As in what the EU deems as sufficient.Bearing in mind that not everyone works to your bs idea of sleeping all day on a loading dock during the obviously remaining 15 hour shift time.

But you are talking about domestic hours, that as I’m sure you’ll agree now, doesn’t put a figure on the daily rest requirements.

Big cf, it’s hardly bs that a lot of truck drivers spend a couple of hours a day having a kip whilst being tipped now is it? And you’re filling in blanks that aren’t there like you normally do, I’ve not said that everyone is doing that, so that’s something else you blatantly made up, why are you wanting a reputation of a bull ■■■■■■■■

All I’ve said is the 11 hours doesn’t include breaks and there’s no daily rest requirement other than adequate rest, I think the penny has now dropped with you on this one.

83

I run on uk domestic hours with a log book.
I start at 6 am every day(usually) and finish at 4 pm. if I work later (I can only do 11 hrs duty) I record in my log book
I do six days a week usually-but on the odd occasion seven days (very rarely)
ive been pulled twice in the last couple of years,vosa always get the hump when given a hand written log book ,and try to suggest I shouldn’t be on uk domestic regs.they like it even less when I prove I am allowed.((
in these days of trackers(of which I am unfortunately shackled) and isotrack(thankfully not for me) and cameras etc,
it is very liberating to only have to record your days duty on a hand written log book ,and stop for a break when you want to
as for running bent, I don’t need to!!
we will not see a return to uk regs for all of us if we vote out(which I really hope we do) and 11 hrs a day really wont suit some members on here(I always try to do less than 10!)-and we wont see an end to the poxy dcpc,too much of a money spinner for all concerned.

84

■■■■■■■■-double post!

85

stevieboy308:

Carryfast:

stevieboy308:
I’m the one bs ing, but where have you plucked the 9 hours from?

I was referring to the minimum ‘9’ hours daily rest period.As in what the EU deems as sufficient.Bearing in mind that not everyone works to your bs idea of sleeping all day on a loading dock during the obviously remaining 15 hour shift time.

But you are talking about domestic hours, that as I’m sure you’ll agree now, doesn’t put a figure on the daily rest requirements.

Big cf, it’s hardly bs that a lot of truck drivers spend a couple of hours a day having a kip whilst being tipped now is it? And you’re filling in blanks that aren’t there like you normally do, I’ve not said that everyone is doing that, so that’s something else you blatantly made up, why are you wanting a reputation of a bull [zb]?

All I’ve said is the 11 hours doesn’t include breaks and there’s no daily rest requirement other than adequate rest, I think the penny has now dropped with you on this one.

What you’ve ‘said’ is that the obviously better daily rest regime which the figure of 24 hours - maximum 11 hours duty provides doesn’t exist.Because bs non existent break time is used to create equally bs non existent spread over time during the 24 hour period.

On that note domestic regs don’t put a figure on daily rest.However the daily duty limit does that by simple deduction.Just as the EU daily rest figure gives a daily duty figure by the same process of simple deduction.The difference being that only the most stupidly creative would try to make domestic regs mean a 15 hour shift and 9 hours daily rest. :unamused:

86

The EU does NOT force foreign firms with trampers over here for days at a time - to pay the legally required UK minimum wage to those drivers. Why not?

The EU DOES prevent firms employing full-time drivers - to not permit them overtime or hours that would take them over 48 hours per week over a reference period. This already prevents Royal Mail drivers for example getting more than 11.45 hours of overtime per week as “Scheduled Attendance”. Any 12+ hour shift that comes up - automatically goes out to agency.

Drivers working more than 48 hours per week all the time - are encouraged to extensively use POA which keeps them legal - so they carry on working those hours, not able to take advantage of the EU law that is supposed to be there to help them rather than the employer…

Driving UK trucks on EU roads requires payments of tolls, etc.
How many Foreign trucks on UK roads pay (1) Road duty, (2) Tolls, (3) Damage to fixtures and fittings, (4) Fines for parking under motorway bridges, (5) basic maintenance to bring their trucks to MOT standard?

How many foreign workers enter Britain legally, overstay their visa, and don’t get chased up?

How many workers claiming tax credits actually get investigated to make sure they are not sharing one job between 10 or more other people - just to get maxed tax credits when no actual job is available to them, just numbers printed on a payslip, no tax & NI deducted, because it’s say, 30 hours @ minimum wage?

Big firms playing it straight - take on various staff, compliance officers, etc…
Small firms struggle to afford this, and stick extra work on existing staff.

I’m not expecting EU regulations to be unpicked overnight following a Brexit. What DOES need to happen though - is clarification of which rules and regulations we plan to keep - since the Brexit campaign has not actually promised to repeal EU laws on an individual basis, just EU policy overall I thought…?

I’m not expecting immigrants already here, legally or not - to be deported en masse either. Too many, too expensive.
A period of consolidation then. Gradual changes, of which our “trade arrangements” can take place during such changes. :bulb:

87

Tacho regs i can live with but this WTD is just stupid i dont need some knob in Brussels to tell me when i need to have a break if i only drove 3 hours a day i would still have a break but i would have control over when i had it we have a 60 hour limit but an average 48 hours what a load of bo------cks

88

Carryfast:

stevieboy308:

Carryfast:

stevieboy308:
I’m the one bs ing, but where have you plucked the 9 hours from?

I was referring to the minimum ‘9’ hours daily rest period.As in what the EU deems as sufficient.Bearing in mind that not everyone works to your bs idea of sleeping all day on a loading dock during the obviously remaining 15 hour shift time.

But you are talking about domestic hours, that as I’m sure you’ll agree now, doesn’t put a figure on the daily rest requirements.

Big cf, it’s hardly bs that a lot of truck drivers spend a couple of hours a day having a kip whilst being tipped now is it? And you’re filling in blanks that aren’t there like you normally do, I’ve not said that everyone is doing that, so that’s something else you blatantly made up, why are you wanting a reputation of a bull [zb]?

All I’ve said is the 11 hours doesn’t include breaks and there’s no daily rest requirement other than adequate rest, I think the penny has now dropped with you on this one.

What you’ve ‘said’ is that the obviously better daily rest regime which the figure of 24 hours - maximum 11 hours duty provides doesn’t exist.Because bs non existent break time is used to create equally bs non existent spread over time during the 24 hour period.

On that note domestic regs don’t put a figure on daily rest.However the daily duty limit does that by simple deduction.Just as the EU daily rest figure gives a daily duty figure by the same process of simple deduction.The difference being that only the most stupidly creative would try to make domestic regs mean a 15 hour shift and 9 hours daily rest. :unamused:

All you’ve got to do I say you were wrong, come on hold your hands up.

You’re even arguing with your self now 24-11=13, although you’ve been struggling with some basic stuff I’m sure you’d agree I’ve got that maths right, have you ever said the daily rest on domestic is 13 hours? Without going back through it, I think you’ve said 11 hours and 9 hours or maybe it was / as well 9+ .

You had right as the 13 hours has to be made up of break / rest, are you arguing with yourself on that point too?

Now you’re saying something about bs non existent break time and an equally bs non existent spread over, but earlier you was going on about 1 - 2 hours of break a day. I bet you’ve had some right arguments with a mirror!

But then! Despite all my bs, to quote alanis, isn’t it ironic, don’t ya think? A little too ironic, yeah I really do think! You say domestic doesn’t put a figure on the daily rest, if only I had a fan fair.

But wait. It looks like I was a little premature, if only i was dipper Dave…!

It doesn’t put a figure on it by a simple deduction, because the amount of break in a shift is an unknown variable, you have agreed to this earlier yourself. Plus the shift and the rest don’t need to be completed in a 24 hour period like on eu

Come on cf, the domestic hours are supposed to be the simpler of the regs!

To recap, the 11 hours of duty in a 24 hour period only includes driving + other work.

So if there is any break in the shift, the shift can be longer than 11 hours and there isn’t a limit on the shift length, so long as you don’t do more than 11 of work and that you have adequate rest. It really is that simple!

If you turn up and do 11 hours of work, then you’ll go home and have 13 off. If like the domestic job I do, where it’s roughly hour of work, hour on break, then I could do more than a 15 hour shift with less than 9 off

Take a leaf out of conor’s book, come on, get it wrong, disappear quietly with you tail between your legs!

89

bjd:
Tacho regs i can live with but this WTD is just stupid i dont need some knob in Brussels to tell me when i need to have a break if i only drove 3 hours a day i would still have a break but i would have control over when i had it we have a 60 hour limit but an average 48 hours what a load of bo------cks

I thought the WTD was something our politicians put in place?

90

bjd:
Tacho regs i can live with but this WTD is just stupid i dont need some knob in Brussels to tell me when i need to have a break if i only drove 3 hours a day i would still have a break but i would have control over when i had it we have a 60 hour limit but an average 48 hours what a load of bo------cks

I actually think they’ve been quite clever with the wtd, I think it’s written in a way that it gives the driver the choice. Some drivers want mega hours , some don’t. Most jobs can be managed to stay within the limits but still do daft hours if that’s what you want, but for the driver who doesn’t want daft hours it’s easy for them to manage their hours to suit themselves, so sorry guv out of time.

And the majority of the wtd break you do have control over, the only stipulation is you don’t work more than 6 hours at any point without a 15.

91

listen the silly wtd is a disadvantage to construction trucks why …when lots of work they miss out (no hours ) when things go slack (lots of hours no work ) please do not come on here and tell be it is not …been there done it got the tee shirt.one other thing if you put three transport people together mention tacho and WTD hours they will argue obout it.the rules are made up by people that are a few yards from toilets, free canteen 9till 5 I have been in this game years and never been asked what do you think…that was two things :imp:

92

fuse:
listen the silly wtd is a disadvantage to construction trucks why …when lots of work they miss out (no hours ) when things go slack (lots of hours no work ) please do not come on here and tell be it is not …been there done it got the tee shirt.one other thing if you put three transport people together mention tacho and WTD hours they will argue obout it.the rules are made up by people that are a few yards from toilets, free canteen 9till 5 I have been in this game years and never been asked what do you think…that was two things :imp:

But with average hours, when things are slack, you’re saving hours for when it’s busy and vice versa

93

How about trucking industry to be bound to only one set of rules(EU, WTD or a new one)? Why not go with EU regs only as we all drive under them and know them. WTD is one additional complication to me, telling me when and what break I should have, like Im idiot and cant decide for myself :unamused:

94

Dolph:
How about trucking industry to be bound to only one set of rules(EU, WTD or a new one)? Why not go with EU regs only as we all drive under them and know them. WTD is one additional complication to me, telling me when and what break I should have, like Im idiot and cant decide for myself :unamused:

We don’t all drive under eu rules, or know them!

Eu tells you to have a break before driving over 4.5, how much you can drive in a week, a fortnight, when you need to be parked up by and for how long, etc. Does that make you an idiot? Take away any limits and a fair chunk of people would be regularly doing daft stuff and the vast majority at some point would do daft stuff

All the wtd tells you is you can’t work more than 6 hours at any point without a break of 15 and if you have at least 45 in total youll be covered for any shift and a average and max on working hours, they allow you to work 12 hours straight with only a 15 in the middle, it’s hardly that that hard to get your head round!

Most people driving breaks will come before you’d need to stop for a wtd break, but I don’t see the problem with people that don’t do much driving needing to stop for a 15 every 6 hours

95

stevieboy308:
You’re even arguing with your self now 24-11=13, although you’ve been struggling with some basic stuff I’m sure you’d agree I’ve got that maths right, have you ever said the daily rest on domestic is 13 hours? Without going back through it, I think you’ve said 11 hours and 9 hours or maybe it was / as well 9+ .

You had right as the 13 hours has to be made up of break / rest, are you arguing with yourself on that point too?

Now you’re saying something about bs non existent break time and an equally bs non existent spread over, but earlier you was going on about 1 - 2 hours of break a day. I bet you’ve had some right arguments with a mirror!

But then! Despite all my bs, to quote alanis, isn’t it ironic, don’t ya think? A little too ironic, yeah I really do think! You say domestic doesn’t put a figure on the daily rest, if only I had a fan fair.

But wait. It looks like I was a little premature, if only i was dipper Dave…!

It doesn’t put a figure on it by a simple deduction, because the amount of break in a shift is an unknown variable, you have agreed to this earlier yourself. Plus the shift and the rest don’t need to be completed in a 24 hour period like on eu

Come on cf, the domestic hours are supposed to be the simpler of the regs!

To recap, the 11 hours of duty in a 24 hour period only includes driving + other work.

So if there is any break in the shift, the shift can be longer than 11 hours and there isn’t a limit on the shift length, so long as you don’t do more than 11 of work and that you have adequate rest. It really is that simple!

If you turn up and do 11 hours of work, then you’ll go home and have 13 off. If like the domestic job I do, where it’s roughly hour of work, hour on break, then I could do more than a 15 hour shift with less than 9 off

Take a leaf out of conor’s book, come on, get it wrong, disappear quietly with you tail between your legs!

Which part of only the stupidest of the stupid would even try to make domestic rules mean a 15 hour shift and 9 hours daily rest by putting in loads of non existent breaks,don’t you understand.As for the idea of an hour of work and an hour of break on a continuous rolling basis that’s about as believable as all the rest of the bs in campaign propaganda.

Although having said that I’m sure domestic regs could be changed to 12 hours minimum daily rest to fix any non existent problems, related to non existent breaks,being used to create non existent 15 hour hour spread overs and non existent 9 hour daily rest periods.Unlike EU regs in which that situation is all too real. :unamused:

96

Carryfast:

stevieboy308:
You’re even arguing with your self now 24-11=13, although you’ve been struggling with some basic stuff I’m sure you’d agree I’ve got that maths right, have you ever said the daily rest on domestic is 13 hours? Without going back through it, I think you’ve said 11 hours and 9 hours or maybe it was / as well 9+ .

You had right as the 13 hours has to be made up of break / rest, are you arguing with yourself on that point too?

Now you’re saying something about bs non existent break time and an equally bs non existent spread over, but earlier you was going on about 1 - 2 hours of break a day. I bet you’ve had some right arguments with a mirror!

But then! Despite all my bs, to quote alanis, isn’t it ironic, don’t ya think? A little too ironic, yeah I really do think! You say domestic doesn’t put a figure on the daily rest, if only I had a fan fair.

But wait. It looks like I was a little premature, if only i was dipper Dave…!

It doesn’t put a figure on it by a simple deduction, because the amount of break in a shift is an unknown variable, you have agreed to this earlier yourself. Plus the shift and the rest don’t need to be completed in a 24 hour period like on eu

Come on cf, the domestic hours are supposed to be the simpler of the regs!

To recap, the 11 hours of duty in a 24 hour period only includes driving + other work.

So if there is any break in the shift, the shift can be longer than 11 hours and there isn’t a limit on the shift length, so long as you don’t do more than 11 of work and that you have adequate rest. It really is that simple!

If you turn up and do 11 hours of work, then you’ll go home and have 13 off. If like the domestic job I do, where it’s roughly hour of work, hour on break, then I could do more than a 15 hour shift with less than 9 off

Take a leaf out of conor’s book, come on, get it wrong, disappear quietly with you tail between your legs!

Which part of only the stupidest of the stupid would even try to make domestic rules mean a 15 hour shift and 9 hours daily rest by putting in loads of non existent breaks,don’t you understand.As for the idea of an hour of work and an hour of break on a continuous rolling basis that’s about as believable as all the rest of the bs in campaign propaganda.

Although having said that I’m sure domestic regs could be changed to 12 hours minimum daily rest to fix any non existent problems, related to non existent breaks,being used to create non existent 15 hour hour spread overs and non existent 9 hour daily rest periods.Unlike EU regs in which that situation is all too real. :unamused:

You do realise you’re making yourself look more stupid than normal?

Believe it or not, the job I do on domestic can roughly go hour of work, hour on break and carry on like that

97

In my opinion-

Virtually everything that has been said is irrelevant. CPC, tachograph rules, the lot. The most crucial factor in deciding which way to vote is this.

Twenty years ago there was a thriving British continental transport industry. Now it has all but completely died. A load from Manchester to Madrid, Leicester to Lugano, Solihull to Stuttgart, they will all be taken by eastern European trucks.

The only reason we still have a domestic transport industry is because the eu currently has rules restricting unlimited cabotage (movements which take place entirely within a member state by a foreign-registered vehicle). However, it is the eventual aim of the eu to remove these restrictions, as they are contrary to one of the most basic principles of the eu- the free movement of labour. Cabotage restrictions were due to be removed in 2014, only campaigning by French and Dutch trade associations and unions had the permanent revocation temporarily postponed.

If we stay in the eu, basically in ten years time, and probably nearer five, cabotage restrictions will almost certainly disappear and you simply won’t have a job. Nobody is going to pay you £400+ a week when an eastern European, on Romanian or Bulgarian number plates and Romanian or Bulgarian wages can do everything you do for £150 a week. Vote to stay in only if you understand that.

98

Hallelujah ^^^ the voice of reason, spot on Harry.

Never have i witnessed, here and elsewhere, so many working class people so confused and bamboozled about what being in this club means to them, turkeys have never been so keen to vote for their very own Christmas.

99

stevieboy308:

Carryfast:
Which part of only the stupidest of the stupid would even try to make domestic rules mean a 15 hour shift and 9 hours daily rest by putting in loads of non existent breaks,don’t you understand.As for the idea of an hour of work and an hour of break on a continuous rolling basis that’s about as believable as all the rest of the bs in campaign propaganda.

Although having said that I’m sure domestic regs could be changed to 12 hours minimum daily rest to fix any non existent problems, related to non existent breaks,being used to create non existent 15 hour hour spread overs and non existent 9 hour daily rest periods.Unlike EU regs in which that situation is all too real. :unamused:

You do realise you’re making yourself look more stupid than normal?

Believe it or not, the job I do on domestic can roughly go hour of work, hour on break and carry on like that

In which case my reference to the responsibility being on you to prove to VOSA’s satisfaction that you aren’t booking break when you should be booking duty applies.One hour work one hour break on a rolling basis probably rightly not fitting the definition of ‘break’ in that case in their eyes.

However as I said how difficult can it be to change domestic regs to 12 hours minimum daily rest to cater for those with your ideas.Let’s just say a lot easier than getting a majority of the EU states to agree to a change to same regards the bs EU regs. :unamused:

100

Juddian:
Hallelujah ^^^ the voice of reason, spot on Harry.

Never have i witnessed, here and elsewhere, so many working class people so confused and bamboozled about what being in this club means to them, turkeys have never been so keen to vote for their very own Christmas.

^ This.

You can add to that most of the Trade Union movement and it’s zb wit Labour Party backers.All based on the same idea of ‘workers rights’ that defeated the Miners and with them the whole domestic Union agenda in 1984 under that bastion of the pro EU agenda Thatcher. :unamused: :imp: