Carryfast:
Great.The in campaign’s case is let’s repeat the mistakes that Tito made in the case of Yugoslavia,but this time on a much bigger scale, and hope for a different outcome. Don’t know whether to laugh or cry.
Personally I am worried about the chances of civil unrest across Europe if things don’t change, but I can’t say it will happen. But I can also understand peoples fears of leaving the EU, whether real or imagined.
All you seem to be able to do is mock or insult anybody whose views differ from yours.
To be fair the out campaign has been insulted enough times along the lines of Fruitcakes,Loonies and Racists.Tough deal with it.
Back to the topic.So are you saying the risks of creating another much bigger version of Yugoslavia are sufficient to smash the project now.Or let’s stay with it and hope ?.
I think the insults and lack of respect from both sides, from various forums to senior political figures, in the debate is deplorable, and I doubt it really achieves much in swaying peoples views, and as I don’t want to be part of the slanging match, I’ll decline to get involved, especially as the topic I was discussing was about opinion and fact, not about the risk of Europe igniting into civil unrest and god forbid worse.
muckles:
I was discussing was about opinion and fact, not about the risk of Europe igniting into civil unrest and god forbid worse.
Historically people have been willing to fight and die over the issue of sovereignty and self determination ( the good guys ) while others have been prepared to kill to impose Federalism ( the bad ones ).It wouldn’t be insulting to suggest that it takes a special type of stupid to not remove the chances of that happening in Europe by maintaining the accepted and proven stable regime of the Nation State.As opposed to kicking off a future fight among future generations along the lines of that which took place in Yugoslavia.
norb:
I’m definitely voting out …They are planning a euro army! Along with their other plans they have if we vote to stay …Mark my words we will be well and truly shafted
The Spinelli Group is a group of MEP’s, launched in September 2010, who want to inject a federalist momentum into the political decisions and policies of the European Union. The aim of the Spinelli Group is to develop a network of those who choose the European interest above their national interest, those who want to push the federal project in response to the numerous crises and revive the European spirit.
In 1980, when there were nine members, the EEC (as it was then) accounted for 28% of the worlds trade. Now, with 28 members, the EU accounts for 16%. This isn’t to say that the European economy has shrunk, it just hasn’t kept up with the level of economic growth elsewhere, and forecasts show that share will continue to fall.
That’s not accurate, economies grow rapidly until they become self sustaining and slow down. The fastest growing economies are China and Brazil yet the uk economy is bigger than both. Also 1980 China was still purely communist, capitalism was not allowed so they exported very little. Now they are biggest exporter in the world so they will have taken trade off the EU. Like steel for instance.
norb:
I’m definitely voting out …They are planning a euro army! Along with their other plans they have if we vote to stay …Mark my words we will be well and truly shafted
The Spinelli Group is a group of MEP’s, launched in September 2010, who want to inject a federalist momentum into the political decisions and policies of the European Union. The aim of the Spinelli Group is to develop a network of those who choose the European interest above their national interest, those who want to push the federal project in response to the numerous crises and revive the European spirit.
As I’ve said very dangerous people.Maybe the in campaigners on here can explain how the Italian Communist Party managed to suddenly become the ‘Democratic Party of the Left’.No surprise it would then be at the forefront of the Soviet Socialist EU project in the form of people like Mercedes Bresso.
Why does all this remind me of the ending of Terminator movie.Bearing in mind that as a former naive Socialist before I knew better I’ve been expecting this obvious attempt to infiltrate and takeover the European government system.The Le Pen’s of this world being all that stands in their way.
America is not in the EU, we have a special relationship with them and it is nigh on impossible for a UK citizen to move there. They are doing well financially so if we leave and copy there migration rules then surely we will do well??
Some really good clever comments on here. But the bottom line is. If you have any bin lids
\kids/ there the ones who will find it hard to get a job if we stay .the remainers are traitors to this country. And should be hung. Or sod off to Europe if you think it’s so good being a part of them.
European countries can’t stand us Brits . they never have done.and while I’m at it. those Scott’s can jog on . England doesn’t need them. And before some idiot comments about the party I support. I don’t support any party or football team. I’m just an English lad who gets around this country and can see on a daily basis how it’s going/ gone /down hill.
krystalgazer:
Some really good clever comments on here. But the bottom line is. If you have any bin lids
\kids/ there the ones who will find it hard to get a job if we stay .the remainers are traitors to this country. And should be hung. Or sod off to Europe if you think it’s so good being a part of them.
European countries can’t stand us Brits . they never have done.and while I’m at it. those Scott’s can jog on . England doesn’t need them. And before some idiot comments about the party I support. I don’t support any party or football team. I’m just an English lad who gets around this country and can see on a daily basis how it’s going/ gone /down hill.
if you don’t like it . cough
To be fair it’s a fight for the Nation State v Socialist infiltrated Federalism.That’s a European fight not just a domestic one.On that note being friends with fences within Europe is fine.
That also means if anyone doesn’t like England and being English tough.
Santa:
Anyone who thinks that the government, current or future, will relax the rules is living in cloud cuckoo land. Truck drivers are not important in electoral terms but all those people who report you for using 7½ tonne bridges and 32 mph in villages are.
As are those who run business and complain about restrictive work practices, that add to admin and costs.
We’ll see… America might just be getting a shock of it’s own - as US Truckers who now have not got Bernie to vote for - are already talking about switching straight to Trump.
The type of person who’d report you for going down their 7.5t street - are the Remainers that the rest of us have got to get past.
Union leaders and jobsworths complete that set-up of course. There are still plenty of people in this country that believe what their union leaders say…
“Losing workers rights” is so short-sighted - it’s laughable! It assumes that the Tories will be in power forever for a start!
One wonders if Labour would be in favour of Brexit - if THEY were in power right now - instead of Cameron’s Tories.
I know PLENTY of people who voted for Cameron not once - but twice - and yet have already voted for Brexit via post.
The steam is comparable to
Remain: It’s for me nerves.
Leave: Remain get on my nerves.
What Remain call “Leave’s Lies” - I’d just call “future uncertainty”.
What Leave call “Remain’s misplaced faith” - I’d call “Questions that need answering”.
Who’s talking about “full time workers will lose their entire paid holiday entitlement if we do Brexit - because the Tories plan to implement slavery”.
This is clearly a load of ■■■■■■■■ of the highest order. Bigger than Sturgeon’s “£350m whopper” she bangs on about.
krystalgazer:
Some really good clever comments on here. But the bottom line is. If you have any bin lids
\kids/ there the ones who will find it hard to get a job if we stay .the remainers are traitors to this country. And should be hung. Or sod off to Europe if you think it’s so good being a part of them.
European countries can’t stand us Brits . they never have done.and while I’m at it. those Scott’s can jog on . England doesn’t need them. And before some idiot comments about the party I support. I don’t support any party or football team. I’m just an English lad who gets around this country and can see on a daily basis how it’s going/ gone /down hill.
if you don’t like it . cough
To be fair it’s a fight for the Nation State v Socialist infiltrated Federalism.That’s a European fight not just a domestic one.On that note being friends with fences within Europe is fine.
That also means if anyone doesn’t like England and being English tough.
You can hate your country, hate your neighbours and love your kids - and that’s enough reason to still be voting Brexit.
Students are asking the big questions: "What well-paid job do I get when I leave uni when I now have to compete with an equally qualified Spanish Engineer/Italian Geologist etc. who can speak four languages when I am equally qualified, but can barely speak my own language?" I don’t thinkk this particular student can be counted on by remain to be blindly voting for EU for “More of THAT same”.
From Money Saving Expert, well worth a read for those still undecided.
As impartial as i’ve seen so far.
By the way, he comes down on the side of remain so this isn’t a suggested piece because he tells you what i want you to hear.
Its fair to say that both campaigns have got too hectic and shouty now, nice to have something sensible to read, even if i don’t necessarily agree with him.
Massive +1
A good read and has helped a lot, gut instinct will play a massive part in this vote and ones own intestinal fortitude to see through the scaremongering from both sides.
I like many others are more likely to vote for a side that doesn’t scream like a split hymen as things ramp up. But as both will do this the choice gets harder.
One things for sure we are voting for our children’s future and must do so with the most informed and impartial information available.
But then is it even possible to find anyone impartial in all this.
Martin Lewis himself admits to being 55 vs 45% on his own decision to be an inny.
In reality the future of this country will be deceided on a 50/50 gamble. Maybe we should just toss a coin for it and use the money saved on feeding the homeless.
The market is still saying the same : 55/45 in favour of Remain.
What’s changed over the last week though - is Turnover is now expected to be in the mid-80%'s putting it on a par with the Scottish Referendum - and leaving well behind the expectation that turnover will only be in the mid-60’s - as per the General Election last year.
It’s a referendum folks - you don’t need to stay at home just because you live in a safe seat ward that will elect someone you can’t stand who’ll easily win…
In a referendum - every vote counts.
Scotland, Union members, and Students - are seemingly expected to vote for Remain. What happens for starters if they are all split 55/45 in favour of remain among their number - and that’s all?
Those 45% of Brexit voters among each of those three groups… might yet swing it for Brexit. Especially rather than “in spite of” Turnout now being expected to be much higher than it was to start with.
Labour voters? - This is their big chance to send Cameron AND Osbourne to the jobcentre. I doubt if they’ll even be relegated to the back benches - should brexit win by a clear 2:1 margin.
Boris doesn’t get to be PM automatically either. With so many Tories out with the washing - their wafer-thin majority is gone in a flash, and there’d likely be a general election before Christmas.
When sovereignty is taken by force - it usually involves death. When it’s offered - it usually involves a benevolent Dictator (future concept there) Bretton Woods didn’t have to do what it did - but the generosity of this plan laid the seeds to where we’re at now in the EU. Re-unification accelerated this process of course.
Taking sovereignty WHEN it’s offered - that’s where we stand now.
Remain for “no sovereignty”. Brexit for “getting it fully back”. then.
It’s time we stopped sitting on the fence over all this… Polarized politics has come home to roost.
I’ve looked at Remain’s fears (or rather “claims” of fears ) - and the only one that I reckon has any truth in it is the “upheaval risk”. We get that kind of risk at general elections, and after a particularly poor set of economic data numbers, such as the American Non-Farm Payrolls showing a negative number on any first friday of the month…
del trotter:
I’ll keep it simple so you understand, non EU migration is anybody coming to the UK from anywhere outside of the EU,USA, India, Aisa for example, now what does that have to do with EU policy and illegal immigration?
You mean like all those ‘refugees’ who ex stasi Socialist Merkel has ‘invited’ in from Asia and Africa and is now expecting to be ‘distributed’ among EU states as she sees fit.
Not to mention the fact that ‘outside’ the EU at the moment will mean ‘inside’ the EU when Turkey is fastracked into the Federalist/Socialist cluster zb thereby exposing Europe to Erdogan’s demographic takeover plans.
Meanwhile are you saying that there is no EU imposed human rights legislation stopping us from summarily deporting illegal immigrants under the Dublin agreements ?.
Are you terminally stupid or just bored and being obtuse?
Winseer:
Students are asking the big questions: "What well-paid job do I get when I leave uni when I now have to compete with an equally qualified Spanish Engineer/Italian Geologist etc. who can speak four languages when I am equally qualified, but can barely speak my own language?" I don’t thinkk this particular student can be counted on by remain to be blindly voting for EU for “More of THAT same”.
But are students really competing against Spanish engineers and Italian geologists? And are the Spanish and Italians really to blame for lumbering students with tens of thousands of pounds worth of debt, or for laws (which are entirely under the control of Westminster today) that allow them to be hired on “internships” with no pay, or progress into “graduate” jobs which pay little, whilst executive pay reaches outer space?
Thankfully, youth seems to be the least taken in by the nonsense of the Brexit camp.
Winseer:
Students are asking the big questions: "What well-paid job do I get when I leave uni when I now have to compete with an equally qualified Spanish Engineer/Italian Geologist etc. who can speak four languages when I am equally qualified, but can barely speak my own language?" I don’t thinkk this particular student can be counted on by remain to be blindly voting for EU for “More of THAT same”.
But are students really competing against Spanish engineers and Italian geologists? And are the Spanish and Italians really to blame for lumbering students with tens of thousands of pounds worth of debt, or for laws (which are entirely under the control of Westminster today) that allow them to be hired on “internships” with no pay, or progress into “graduate” jobs which pay little, whilst executive pay reaches outer space?
Thankfully, youth seems to be the least taken in by the nonsense of the Brexit camp.
I don’t think the lines can be drawn so clearly as old people in favour of leave and young pro EU, I know people of all ages and educational backgrounds, and amongst them there seem to be no particular type supporting a view, and I’ve seen plenty of news interviews with young people where they’ve said they’re in favour of leaving.
Brexit has tapped into the concerns of normal people, concerns that are being ignored by mainstream politics across Europe, I work and meet people from across Europe and in conversation they say the same as British people about the EU and their own governments. That is basically they’ve lost touch with the ordinary people, they express concerns about immigration, migrant workers and jobs, and I’ve heard they same from Spanish, French, Italians and Germans.
del trotter:
I’ll keep it simple so you understand, non EU migration is anybody coming to the UK from anywhere outside of the EU,USA, India, Aisa for example, now what does that have to do with EU policy and illegal immigration?
You mean like all those ‘refugees’ who ex stasi Socialist Merkel has ‘invited’ in from Asia and Africa and is now expecting to be ‘distributed’ among EU states as she sees fit.
Not to mention the fact that ‘outside’ the EU at the moment will mean ‘inside’ the EU when Turkey is fastracked into the Federalist/Socialist cluster zb thereby exposing Europe to Erdogan’s demographic takeover plans.
Meanwhile are you saying that there is no EU imposed human rights legislation stopping us from summarily deporting illegal immigrants under the Dublin agreements ?.
Are you terminally stupid or just bored and being obtuse?
Oh look the in campaign Communists resort to form when the unarguable facts related to EU immigration policy are put in front of them.
Winseer:
Students are asking the big questions: "What well-paid job do I get when I leave uni when I now have to compete with an equally qualified Spanish Engineer/Italian Geologist etc. who can speak four languages when I am equally qualified, but can barely speak my own language?" I don’t thinkk this particular student can be counted on by remain to be blindly voting for EU for “More of THAT same”.
But are students really competing against Spanish engineers and Italian geologists? And are the Spanish and Italians really to blame for lumbering students with tens of thousands of pounds worth of debt, or for laws (which are entirely under the control of Westminster today) that allow them to be hired on “internships” with no pay, or progress into “graduate” jobs which pay little, whilst executive pay reaches outer space?
Thankfully, youth seems to be the least taken in by the nonsense of the Brexit camp.
That’s because ‘youth’ is the most easily indoctrinated by zb Socialists and their plans for the infiltration of and takeover of the European government system.Such as believing Spinelli’s lie that European wars are the result of Nation State aggression against Federalism rather than vice versa.No doubt any ‘youth’ that is bright enough to realise the plan and oppose it will be labelled as ‘Fascists’ by the zb Communists.
Don’t know whether to laugh or cry.
